Are Menard's cars all O27 cars or do they make any exact scale cars?
Matt
|
Are Menard's cars all O27 cars or do they make any exact scale cars?
Matt
Replies sorted oldest to newest
I own several of the Menard's boxcars and they match up quite well with my Lionel and MTH Premeir line 1/48 scale cars. These Menard's cars have some detail but remember they are very budget priced. Their flatcars come in a shorter traditional 0/27 size but they also offer the wood decked cars which are more 1/48 sized.
Waddy
LOOK AT the web site on the Flat car side, 4 pages, there are I think it is 6-7 choices of , cars with loads, being 14 3/4. stated in the
description. I also have some of these, and they are the same end to end size of the Lionel box cars. Yes, many on these pages are also the smaller,
being the 10.5 size car.
Terry
When the box cars first came out we had a 'scale' debate. What I came to was the box cars were about, really a bit larger, than a scale PRR X-29 box car. So size wise the box cars are scale.
BUT some folks use the term 'scale' as a level of detail and not just size. I don't like this use of scale.....but some do. I do not own one but the Menard's 50 ft flat car looks scale....but yet to pick one up.
Thanks everyone! I've been looking into buying either a set of boxcars or flatcars to strengthen my fleet, especially the flatcars. I started with a Thunder Valley RTR set from Lionel a few years back, and have gradually expanded my fleet with exact scale cars, including an Atlas O master wood sided reefer and the Lionel Southern Pacific round roof boxcar. I have yet to find a suitable flatcar to negotiate my O36 Fastrack so I am looking into purchasing a few flat cars.
Matt
A forty foot box car in 1:48 scale calculates out at 10 inches, sounds pretty close to O scale to me, especially considering these are fish belly cars which given the era of the early through mid 20th century these would be accurate for O scale.
Bogie
The 10" flatcars are narrower (2") than typical for scale (2.5"). They match Lionel 027 flats in dimensions (although assuming they're from existing tooling, their lineage is a mystery, as I'm not aware of any previous 'clone' flats with open stirrups).
---PCJ
All of my Menards rolling stock is heavier than my Lionel equivalent. And 30% of the cost.
Matt, if you're buying cars like the recent scale Lionel and Atlas rolling stock, I think you're going to be disappointed with the Menards rolling stock, outside of maybe the long flat cars.
There's a big difference today between scale proportions and details. Many postwar Lionel items like the NW2 and GP9 diesels are nearly scale in size. But compare them to new scale offerings by MTH, Atlas Masterline (or even Trainman line), Lionel etc. and you'll see the differences. Same with the 'Standard O" cars first introduced by Lionel in the 1970's: Nearly scale in proportion, but on a detail level, not up to par with the recent offerings.
It's all a matter of what you afford and what will negotiate 36 diameter curves. You might want to consider looking for used scale cars here on the for sale forum or the new LionScale cars... though there's no flat car.
Meanrds has created quite a buzz with their affordable prices and quality pertinent at the price point. But they're not a train company (meaning revenue from other sources) and nearly all of the tooling they're utilizing is not new. You're not going to get an accurate scale detailed $100 train car for $20-$40.
Many have said they're happy with the Menards box cars on a proportional level with scale cars. You can find photos of those cars though and clearly see they don't have the same detail level as other scale cars, so you have to decide. Clearly if you have any modeling skills, the long Menards flat car could easily be improved, but then when you get done buying the materials, will it be cost effective?
For us traditional guys, it's not at all a concern: You're getting the same detail as a Lionel traditional car for a lot less money. And considering most of the Lionel traditional tooling has long been paid for, well... speaking personally, their prices on those cars are out of my league. I haven't bought a brand new separate sale Lionel car now in over 3 years.
Back in the day, a company had a huge train department on North Shepherd Dr. here in Houston. A company one did not connect with toys until the fall and the toy catalogs came out: SEARS!
So, in the day, one would not buy from a store which had "Madison" before "Hardware"!
If the car stays on the track while moving, I do not think a person is going to car if she/he is a "runner"!
In the 90's I had reservations about a company called "MTH". I found a coboose I was looking for. So, I would LOOK at Mike's stuff to see if an items of his would fit my needs!
This "is it scale/1:48 or not" question come up frequently, as we all know. This issue is very important or totally irrelevant, depending on who is asking - and both are valid, naturally.
I do scale - unless I see something "scale-ish" that works for me.
So, the point of all this hot air is this: in our 3RO world, strangely enough, even toy rolling stock rides on 4-wheel trucks that are almost universally at or near 1:48 proportions and wheelbase (Marx 3/16-scale trucks don't count). A Postwar or low-end Lionel plastic freight truck is proportionately pretty accurate.
This is my rule of thumb when viewing a photo of a car and I have no convenient way to size it up: If the 4-wheel trucks look big and/or wide, the car is not scale or even near-scale.
Not a great or new insight - but pretty dependable.
I've run Menard's box cars through O-27 switches. I couldn't possibly do that with my MTH, Weaver or Lionel scale stuff--that pesky switch machine gets in the way.
First off, the boxcars are certainly scale sized for a 40' boxcar. I posted a detailed comparison some time back. The knock that they aren't as detailed is accurate, but in many cases, not all that important. I string of Menard's boxcars is the perfect thing for club layouts or traveling modular layouts. They get a lot of handling, and there's really nothing to break on the Menard's cars. The paint and graphics have been excellent on the ones I've gotten. My biggest complaint was the couplers are not all that reliable, I glued some of them shut that wouldn't behave. They also don't have needle-point axles, so they have more rolling resistance than modern cars. If you run really long freight trains, this could be a factor. They MUST be oiled properly.
Real freight cars come in different lengths and heights, but they are pretty standard in width. Traditional sized model cars, however, will be narrower than scale size model cars, and visually, this is main reason most folks don't mix the two.
Jim
Ace posted:gunrunnerjohn posted:First off, the boxcars are certainly scale sized for a 40' boxcar. I posted a detailed comparison some time back ...
The size and overall proportions appear comparable to Lionel 6464 series cars representing 50-foot boxcars, which are "traditional" size, not 1:48 scale. A scale car would be a half-inch wider.
To me, you are both right based on your different points of view on how you enjoy the hobby. The length and height of this car is close to a 40' boxcar where some original ones were used well into the 60s, although it is too narrow. If you are not concerned about prototype accuracy, this car in my view does fit into a freight train of mixed cars.
For someone who runs trains at shows like John, their sturdiness and low cost are very good for that purpose. I don't have any Menard cars, but I do run older, less detailed K-Line/Lionel/RailKing cars because of the rough handling they get going to/from shows and small hands that reach over the Plexiglas.
However, if prototype accuracy in size (not necessarily detail) is important, than at 10.5" for a 50' car it is 2" short, plus being narrow. I actually fall in this category for my home layout. I'm not a rivet counter, but the car needs to look close to what the prototype would be like.
Enjoy the hobby. As they say, its your railroad.
What makes these a 50' boxcar? I also don't see the comment about them being too narrow, the difference is very hard to spot unless you're right on top of them with a micrometer! Here they are compared to the Lionel Vision Line PFE 40' Reefer. Looks pretty close in width to me.
Here's what I have seen; around local rail yards here in Kansas City consists are made up of all different sized box cars, flat cars, gondolas, etc. I don't see "rivet counting' uniformity in real trains. I do see new looking mixed up with rusted hulks, a line of car carriers with some mixed in that are slightly shorter but just as wide and long as the rest. Same with boxcars; different widths, different heights, different lengths. Seems that perhaps different manufacturers maybe produce stock with slight differences. A real rail yard often looks like a model set with full O scale mixed with traditional and Rail King. But I'm no expert, just a hobbyist and observer.
Waddy
This Weaver car educated me about the differences in O-gauge equipment. I didn't buy any more scale cars because they look out of place with my "traditional" equipment. "Traditional" cars are usually well proportioned, they just aren't 1:48 scale.
You hit the nail on the head there. I have a couple of Weaver cars with scale trucks and Kadees. They look chunky and massive next to traditional O gauge 3R cars; even the 36' 2-bay hopper, which is pretty short by modern car standards. There were S-gaugers out there who converted a few Lionel 0-27 cars without much modification, except for trucks of course.
As stated early on in this thread.....scale up a PRR X-29 box car and see how close it is to the Menard's, Williams and certain Lionel cars are to scale.....not a half inch off in any dimension.
Of course, we're assuming first off that Weaver got it right. We're also assuming that all 40 foot boxcars are the same width, when in fact they varied quite a bit over the years. I'll keep doing what I do and the folks in the Brotherhood can keep doing what they do.
^^therein be the devil!
I see lots of specifications in your post, but nothing about the width of the cars...
You kinda prove my point that the Menard's are scale cars.......I never said they'd look right running in a train set in the 1970's or newer......but per an old Mainline Modeler article they are perfect for those of us 'stuck in the 1950's' as such. As you show the X-29's were rebuilt a number of times and had a longer than normal life.
Length over roof walk ends
Menard's 42' 3"
PRR 42' 3"
Width of car body
Menard's 9' 2"
PRR 8' 11"
Height rail head to roof walk
Menard's 13' 9"
PRR 13' 3"
Wheelbase center to center
Menard's 31' 6"
PRR 32' 3"
Overall I'd call it spot on for a $20 'toy' box car. True...not 'SCALE' detail....not a modern era box car....but a real deal at $20.....something I asked for 10 years ago and was told I was crazy....it couldn't be done!!! thx
John-
That Rivet logo was wrong on so many levels, hope you don't mind if I save it & use it to tease my friends!
rogerpete posted:John-
That Rivet logo was wrong on so many levels, hope you don't mind if I save it & use it to tease my friends!
No problem, I just found it on the Internet.
Access to this requires an OGR Forum Supporting Membership