Atlas booth at York a shell of it's former glory.

That is a total bummer. Love Atlas O and have many of their models.  Best in the business hands down.  Hoping to see a continuation of perfection with their future releases. 

If I am not mistaken Atlas O is produced by a different China Mfg than their HO and N gauge lines, the product they are making for Atlas represents a small amount of all the products this factory produces as a result Atlas has to take whatever production schedule suits this Mfg, minimal O output from Atlas appears to be the new norm. Interesting that a Atlas factory rep did not speak at the Mfgs forum today, perhaps someone got some info from the reps manning their display,just saying!

I was shocked by the tiny display of tired product at the Atlas O booth. Their Zephyr cars are all over the place and not moving. Nothing new announced other than Gunderson cars. I wonder, too, if the end is near.

The biggest surprise for me of October York:  the Atlas booth.  Wow.  Not good.

The OP's commentary is spot on.  I mentioned in an earlier post last week that the Atlas-O booth was gonna be approx 1/3 its former size (after I looked at an updated vendor map of the Orange Hall posted on the TCA/York website).  So I was prepared to see a dramatically lower profile in Atlas-O's presence at York this October.   But seeing the new booth in person vs. what had formerly been a huge booth with that long, dog-bone display layout PLUS space for product displays AND product seminars...  WOW!!!  It really hit home hard.

I didn't recognize either of the two reps that were doing booth-duty early Thursday afternoon.  We knew some of the Atlas-O "regulars" had departed the scene recently, but I didn't even see any of the other Atlas RR folks who often attend York shows.    Now it's possible they were there on Friday, but I didn't see them early Thursday afternoon when I visited the booth.

Anyway, I probably would have walked by the booth entirely... were it not for the fact that I saw the "CSX: How Tomorrow Moves" 53' containers on display!!!   And as I have posted here a few times in recent months, I have a bunch of these on order from Charlie Ro... which should make a splendid CSX unit train with the yellow TTX cars I received from the first production run of the Maxi-IV well cars.  At least I got to FINALLY see ONE of these CSX containers in person , and it's giving me some hope that the real deal isn't too much further down the road.  Let's hope!!! 

I asked one of the reps about an ETA, and he very professionally and politely told me we "should" see them by the end of the year.  Not exactly an authoritative, warm-and-fuzzy answer to instill confidence.  But at least he was honest with his answer.

Now here's the way I look at things...  For the most recent Atlas-O shipments in 2017, the Chinese factory has shipped on 5/31, 8/7 and 9/11... and Atlas-O has in turn shipped those items to its dealer network on 7/31, 9/26 and TBA, respectively.  That last 9/11 factory shipment has yet to be received in NJ.  But if Atlas-O's typical 7- to 8-week timeframe holds true, they should be shipping the 9/11 factory shipment to dealers sometime around late-October / early November. 

But sadly enough, these 53' Maxi-IV containers were NOT part of the 9/11 factory shipment.  So if there's ANY hope we'll see them by year-end 2017, Atlas-O's Chinese factory had better ship these gems by late-October... which gives Atlas-O the time to turn things around in NJ for shipment to their dealers in mid- to late-December.  But given that puts things smack in the middle of the Christmas Holiday, a more realistic scenario seems that we CONSUMERS won't actually see these containers until after the New Year -- assuming everything else in the heavens aligns and these things actually get out of China by late October.  

Should be an interesting couple of months for sure...  And for purely selfish reasons, I just hope these containers arrive before Atlas-O quietly packs it in.  As for the remaining F3 locomotives that were announced shortly after the special CZ car packages, I've written them off as something we'll probably never see.  

David

The current team of people working at Atlas Model RR Co. are also focusing on the production of old and new items for HO, N, and Z from BLMA Models.

They might be so overwhelmed with attempting to finally get all the O Scale Locomotives produced in China after 3 to 7 years that they do not have time for more New freight cars right now. 

Andrew

These toy train "mfrs" sure have a strange way of doing business today.

Atlas wasn't the only dealer who had a smaller display this York.  Sidetrack Hobbies, Dunham Studios, and a few others had a smaller presence this York. And there was one train shop in the Orange Hall who's name escapes me had signs up that this was his last show and he was having a going out of business sale.

-Greg

Wow, hopefully Atlas O, and in my honest opinion, is a manufacturer of high Quality O Guage products and will survive this economic period. They had a great presence in April (York) and demonstrated new sound systems and new electronics with their engines performing flawlessly. I was very impressed, and although I like Lionel’s Legacy System, Atlas makes super nice Diesels. The late JIM Weaver was the best ambassador of their line, and his attention to product, and product detail was exceptionally great. His caring attitude was contagious, his word was his bond. I miss him, however, their service department is excellent. I want them to find manufacturers that will build their train line and keep Atlas O well positioned in our Hobby. Great thread, I wish the very best to Atlas...

If it has gotten that bad, shut down the Atlas-O line for a year or two, clear out the old stock, and start producing in the US.  

Greg Houser posted:

Atlas wasn't the only dealer who had a smaller display this York.  Sidetrack Hobbies, Dunham Studios, and a few others had a smaller presence this York. And there was one train shop in the Orange Hall who's name escapes me had signs up that this was his last show and he was having a going out of business sale.

-Greg

Greg, I can assure you that Dunham Studios is NOT going out of business.    Nor are they experiencing any of the ills we're seeing in the Atlas-O camp these days.   

Atlas-O is in a very unique position that is causing lots of enthusiasts to wonder about the company's future -- or shall we say the future of the Atlas-O product line.  The Atlas Model Railroad Company is a whole different story altogether.

leapinlarry posted:

Wow, hopefully Atlas O, and in my honest opinion, is a manufacturer of high Quality O Guage products and will survive this economic period. 

What "economic period" would that be?

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

Greg Houser posted:

Atlas wasn't the only dealer who had a smaller display this York.  Sidetrack Hobbies, Dunham Studios, and a few others had a smaller presence this York. And there was one train shop in the Orange Hall who's name escapes me had signs up that this was his last show and he was having a going out of business sale.

-Greg

Greg, I can assure you that Dunham Studios is NOT going out of business.   

And Sidetrack is still in the middle of their big sale, which is taking a lot of their time, I understand.

I didn't mean to imply the others had the same questions concerning viability as Atlas O does.  Rest assured, I know Dunham Studios and Sidetrack Hobbies aren't going out of business.     It was just a comment on other businesses  who had a smaller than usual set-up at York.  Dunham Studios didn't have any layouts with them and Sidetrack Hobbies new location/booth is less than half the size of their previous ones.

-Greg

Guys, its a business. You either make money or don't make money and you try to maximize profits. I don't think this is a growth industry and there are newer methods of spreading the word than a booth at York. And sometimes if things don't work, you need to retrench. 

Gerry

The vendor announcing their retirement was Eastern Depot, their last York.

Jim M Sr posted:

The vendor announcing their retirement was Eastern Depot, their last York.

I also noted a GooB sign at the vendor directly across from Tom McComas, but I forget the name (don't have a map in front of me to check). 

I recognize the gentleman from many years of attending the meet, I recall my dad buying some things from him years ago, possibly back in the Yellow Hall days.  I wish him well.

Sorry this has nothing to do with the original Atlas topic.  While I don't follow their operation like those who are waiting for orders, I did note the drastic downsize of the booth.

-Dave

Yes there were some smaller displays but Thursday , the halls were packed and you could barely move about which reminds me of the way it was 10 years ago. I go both times each year, for last 22 years two days each time. This was best crowd I’ve seen in a while .

Visited the Atlas Booth at York on Thursday.  I spoke with the lady representing the Golden Spike Club..

I asked a question she was not able to answer and she connected with another Rep. by the name of William.  My question was about a Trainman C&O Caboose in the development stage.  He gave me all of the information and added that getting the vendor in China to make the details correctly has been time consuming.  

ART

Sidetrack hobbies requested the move because the last location was by the front which was cold from the wind and the front doors constantly being opened. They are NOT GOING OUT OF BUSINESS.

gmorlitz posted:

Guys, its a business. You either make money or don't make money and you try to maximize profits. I don't think this is a growth industry and there are newer methods of spreading the word than a booth at York. And sometimes if things don't work, you need to retrench. 

Gerry

Not surprised. Sales numbers justify existence.

Producing items off shore is no longer valid mainly with logistics cost increases and lack of control. A total re-design using 3d printing, USA production and an aggressive sales campaign might save them?

Dmaxdeere87 posted:

Yes there were some smaller displays but Thursday , the halls were packed and you could barely move about which reminds me of the way it was 10 years ago. I go both times each year, for last 22 years two days each time. This was best crowd I’ve seen in a while .

I was thinking the opposite. I too have been going for around 18 yrs and have not missed 1 opening day. I have seen a downturn in attendance in the last 3 yrs. The MTH, Atlas, And Lionel set ups have been getting smaller each York. It seems easier to walk the aisles. We are all getting older and some of us are losing interest or dying off and not seeing much in younger generations getting into the hobby. I only ever see a handful of kids at the York event. Again, I am only there on opening day,so what happens after that I don't know.

Greg Houser posted:

I didn't mean to imply the others had the same questions concerning viability as Atlas O does.  Rest assured, I know Dunham Studios and Sidetrack Hobbies aren't going out of business.     It was just a comment on other businesses  who had a smaller than usual set-up at York.  Dunham Studios didn't have any layouts with them and Sidetrack Hobbies new location/booth is less than half the size of their previous ones.

...

Greg,

I knew you weren't implying the other companies were in the same boat as Atlas-O.  Just couldn't resist commenting!    LOL...

I do know that Dunham Studios was represented by 3 folks, and they traveled with their "very portable booth" in one van.  Compared to their former display with layouts (requiring 2-3 more people and a truck to haul the layouts), that was a huge savings in overall expenses.  Yet they still were able to convey an effective message.

I missed chatting with Al and Libby of Sidetrack Hobbies this show, as the afternoon just seem to evaporate all too quickly.    But they seemed to be doing quite well as always with their big focus on tinplate and Standard Gauge goodies at York.  They are my go-to dealer hands down for that kind of stuff.

David

breezinup posted:

leapinlarry posted:

Wow, hopefully Atlas O, and in my honest opinion, is a manufacturer of high Quality O Guage products and will survive this economic period. 

What "economic period" would that be?

Economic period or a demographics period? As the economy is currently going, I see it more as an unfortunate demographic downturn by those in hobby due to the bulk of that age group either downsizing or, not meaning to be insensitive, many O gauge folks no longer in the hobby because of either medical issues or death.  As proof, just observe the more prolific posters on this forum who have either recently moved or are planning to move to smaller domiciles or who've reported newly discovered health issues (or worse.) It's extremely difficult for a business to buck the trend of their core demographics clientele without that business reinventing itself to survive. Couple this situation with an uncertain and difficult manufacturing atmosphere and it's the makings of a "perfect storm" of annihilation for those businesses.

I believe Atlas has too big an investment in O gauge to stop producing product from their existing tooling, true the current factory output is limited but everything they bring in sells out. It made sense for them to scale back their display presence at York and probably foreseeable future shows in line with current production, models will continue to come in just less frequently. I have been a customer since they started in O gauge. JMO

SIRT posted:

gmorlitz posted:

Guys, its a business. You either make money or don't make money and you try to maximize profits. I don't think this is a growth industry and there are newer methods of spreading the word than a booth at York. And sometimes if things don't work, you need to retrench. 

Gerry

Not surprised. Sales numbers justify existence.

Producing items off shore is no longer valid mainly with logistics cost increases and lack of control. A total re-design using 3d printing, USA production and an aggressive sales campaign might save them?

Bear in mind the newest importer of HO and N products Scaletrains.com choose to set up a new factory in China to exclusively produce their products which currently are available as both operator and super detailed models, these are currently among the best models being made in these scales, there was an article in MRR a while back showcasing their new factory. just saying!

hibar posted:

SIRT posted:

gmorlitz posted:

Guys, its a business. You either make money or don't make money and you try to maximize profits. I don't think this is a growth industry and there are newer methods of spreading the word than a booth at York. And sometimes if things don't work, you need to retrench. 

Gerry

Not surprised. Sales numbers justify existence.

Producing items off shore is no longer valid mainly with logistics cost increases and lack of control. A total re-design using 3d printing, USA production and an aggressive sales campaign might save them?

Bear in mind the newest importer of HO and N products Scaletrains.com choose to set up a new factory in China to exclusively produce their products which currently are available as both operator and super detailed models, these are currently among the best models being made in these scales, there was an article in MRR a while back showcasing their new factory. just saying!

Apples & oranges. H.O. vs. 3r O? Nowhere near the same market share.

Large volume, demand, availability and small items for any space and real looking 2r tracks. That's why H.O. still thrives today.

 Those old worn out Atlas molds bought from someone else I bet were paid for many years ago. Maybe buyers just don't want to pay 70-80 bucks for a new Atlas box car. Later MTH & Lionel models have far surpassed any Atlas Master. The changes in construction, ruggedness and added details were never announced by either of them. I urge you guys to take a closer look at the detailing. 

I have yet to see anything that Lionel or MTH has done that surpasses Atlas on detail, or weight.

catnap posted:

I have yet to see anything that Lionel or MTH has done that surpasses Atlas on detail, or weight.

I'm a fan of Atlas, but you may want to take a look at the most recent Lionel offerings. They are every bit as good. That's a problem for Atlas. They don't have a competitive advantage anymore. I would hate to see them go, but time will tell. How quickly the O scale market has dropped off in the past 15 years...

catnap posted:

I have yet to see anything that Lionel or MTH has done that surpasses Atlas on detail, or weight.

In my opinion, I much prefer the MTH Premier steam era boxcars, over the same Atlas products. The added-on detail parts that MTH uses are metal (brass?) while the same parts on Atlas cars are all plastic. Not to mention the price of Atlas products has gotten obscene!

jonnyspeed posted

I'm a fan of Atlas, but you may want to take a look at the most recent Lionel offerings. They are every bit as good. That's a problem for Atlas. They don't have a competitive advantage anymore. I would hate to see them go,

That have two rail engines, though. Thankfully.

I'm pulling for ya Atlas O ..... we're all in this together.

We are talking about producing a product in USA vs. China, which is more cost effective. These people were a startup company and determined that China was best for their line. With the huge market share difference between scales one might think starting up in the US would be the better choice, obviously this was not the case.

I'm speaking as a 2-railer coming over from 3-rail. I had Lionel rolling stock (PS-2 2-bay covered hoppers and 86' hi-cube boxcars) that are every bit as detailed as anything that has been manufactured in O scale. Atlas is just the most consistent with a high level of fidelity. Trinity hoppers and 60' Berwick hi-cube boxcars come to mind. I'd bring up motive power but Atlas hasn't delivered anything new for almost a year so it's not worth mentioning.

I would be remiss if I forgot to mention Atlas tank cars. MTH and Lionel can't touch Atlas there.

Hot Water posted:

catnap posted:

I have yet to see anything that Lionel or MTH has done that surpasses Atlas on detail, or weight.

In my opinion, I much prefer the MTH Premier steam era boxcars, over the same Atlas products. The added-on detail parts that MTH uses are metal (brass?) while the same parts on Atlas cars are all plastic. Not to mention the price of Atlas products has gotten obscene!

The latest scale size offerings from Lionel, 66' gon at 79.99 and MTH 50' Hycube at 79.99 are not far off Atlas prices, admittedly you can get a better "street price" on MTH and Lionel with pre orders. If you want more "rugged" construction then the big 2 are the way to go although some of the Atlas Tman cars are in that category. As a long time O scale 2 railer fidelity to scale and detail are my priorities. just saying!

"I didn't recognize either of the two reps that were doing booth-duty early Thursday afternoon.  We knew some of the Atlas-O "regulars" had departed the scene recently, but I didn't even see any of the other Atlas RR folks who often attend York shows.    Now it's possible they were there on Friday, but I didn't see them early Thursday afternoon when I visited the booth."

Partially accurate.

The two reps I also did not recognize.  However, Patricia was there in full force beginning on Thursday, and she has been at York with Atlas for a number of years.  I'm not sure she was happy that there were no seminars or no hospitality area.

IMO, Atlas makes the best track in the O-Gauge world (OK ... early switches notwithstanding).  I sure hope that continues...........

This Atlas thing has been pretty well beat to death, so what or who else was at York ??

jim pastorius posted:

This Atlas thing has been pretty well beat to death, so what or who else was at York ??

Agreed. Other than the Vision Niagra, one would almost think nothing else happened from the dearth of reports. 

Montclaire posted:

If it has gotten that bad, shut down the Atlas-O line for a year or two, clear out the old stock, and start producing in the US.  

That's impossible once you start producing anything in China their government won't let you take out the molds even though you own them. I completely agree with you, I wish it was that simple.