Bachmann's New "Bluetooth" electronics

To me its not a game changer, especially in the 3RS arena where folks typically try to model scale trains.

 

From this thread on the other sub-forum, https://ogrforum.com/t...-changer-byod?page=3 it appears to be just another command system (Bluetooth on top of DCC) with another remote (in this case an iPad).

 

I don't foresee many folks dumping Legacy/TMCC or DCS to use this technology.  However, Bluetooth might be a cool technology for those folks who want a single train set.

 

If Bachman lets other use the Bluetooth patent for free, it might have more of an impact on the market.  If they don't let others use the Bluetooth idea, its future limit is to just Williams trains.

 

Jim

I thought the Bachmann system was very nice, but I don't see it replacing DCS or Legacy. Also sounded like it was DCC based, which we don't use for our AC powered trains. I have often wondered why though? I have Legacy and DCS, but what little I know about DCC it sounds pretty interesting.

 

As for getting rid if the AIU and whatever Lionel's switch and accessory controllers are, you would still have to have something to control the switches and accessories. The DCC folks have stationary decoders for things like that. I guess those could be used with the Bachmann system? I think one more disadvantage to using Bluetooth is it is limited to the number of devices you can connect to, like 5 or 6 or something like that, maybe more, but not a lot more I don't think. So you would be limited to the number of devices you could control, unless they come out with a 'black box' of their own that somehow allows more devices to be controlled.

 

I think it's a great idea for kids or people that just want a train or two, maybe kind of like what Lionel's Lion Chief systems were designed for. Or the annual Christmas layout or something. Entry level type stuff. Folks with more trains and bigger layouts I think will still want (and need to have) the DCS and Legacy systems for their trains and layout items.

rtr12, I re-reviewed the demo film that "Robbie" put on his post, and unless I'm nit understanding what he said, sounded like the possibilities were unlimited for this system, but like I said, I'm not savey on electronics, and merely asking questions. With this said, does sound like this would be a better system, and definately more user friendly, without all  of the extra gaggets you have to buy to run trains and throw switches! Wonder what kinda trade ins we can get for our old electronics and controllers, against the new stuff!  None at all! The system is set up to keep making us come back for more, and more, always gonna be change, at least some old geezzer told me that about 55 years ago, and he was right!

Something that comes to mind here to me is that the current toy train market is really a closed market. The enthusiasts that are spending their money on control systems appear to be willing to tolerate 2 different systems. A third system is going to be a tough sell for anyone except the those enthusiasts that are what I call the "early adopters' or "technology consumers" since they will buy in just to try it.

 

Now if this appeals to a larger untrained audience that brings in new customers into the hobby then it might work great. The other positive would be that hopefully generic components are used so service and repair would be possible and easier in the future.

 

A good idea but right now it seems like an "also ran" to me.

What everyone seems to be missing here is the fact that in order to try this out all you need is a smart device that supports Bluetooth 4 and the locomotive. You do not have to buy a "System" or switch from DCS or TMCC. Basically if and when Bachmann releases this in O gauge you can just buy a loco and put it on your DCS or TMCC layout and run it with you device at the same time as you are running the other manufacturer's locos. It is NOT based on DCC. It is new technology that is software based which gives Bachmann the ability to constantly upgrade it. It is called EZ App because it is an App that is uploaded to your smart device. There will be other Apps to follow that will work with it and enhance the operating experience.This will do everything the others do and more - it will just be easier to use.

I'd rather see an option for a Bluetooth connection to an external set of speakers or sound system... Mostly for the added bass.

 

Just my $0.02.

 

Thanks,

- Mario

This is from the Bluetooth site:

 

"

When two Bluetooth enabled devices connect to each other, this is called pairing. The structure and the global acceptance of Bluetooth technology means any Bluetooth enabled device, almost everywhere in the world, can connect to other Bluetooth enabled devices located in proximity to one another.

Connections between Bluetooth enabled electronic devices allow these devices to communicate wirelessly through short-range, ad hoc networks known as piconets. Piconets are established dynamically and automatically as Bluetooth enabled devices enter and leave radio proximity meaning that you can easily connect whenever and wherever it's convenient for you.

Each device in a piconet can also simultaneously communicate with up to seven other devices within that single piconet and each device can also belong to several piconets simultaneously. This means the ways in which you can connect your Bluetooth devices is almost limitless.

A fundamental strength of Bluetooth wireless technology is the ability to simultaneously handle data and voice transmissions. which provides users with a variety of innovative solutions such as hands-free headsets for voice calls, printing and fax capabilities, and synchronization for PCs and mobile phones, just to name a few.

The range of Bluetooth technology is application specific.  The Core Specification mandates a minimum range of 10 meters or 30 feet, but there is no set limit and manufacturers can tune their implementations to provide the range needed to support the use cases for their solutions."

 

Eventually, i'm sure Bachmann will figure out a way for control of multiple locomotives and accessories to be controlled via single app. It's no different than my iMac that has a printer, mouse, trackpad and drawing tablet all linked via Bluetooth.

DaveP, very good post. I was talking with a electronics tech today, and questioning him on "Bluetooth", and what one of the Model Manufacturer's was going to come out with, to assist in running model trains. He told me that the better the electronics device was, that you were going to program as the control point, would be the leading factor in how far away that you could send signals. Da, I guess that goes without saying. Kinda like "soup cans and a string" vs the what ever. He said that he felt a top of the line cell phone, or iPad, tablet book, that you could down load the App, would have a farther range, than what the manufacturer would supply. I guess that sounds to reason, but how much control range would a person need, to run model trains?

He asked me how much I was having to pay for the App, and I told him that this product hasn't hit the market yet, but supposedly would be out Spring 2015, and 1st in "HO". I explained what I could about Lionel and MTH control systems, and what Bachmann was going to do with the "Bluetooth" System. Once again this is one man's opinion, he said that the "Bluetooth System" would be considerably more user friendly, and a less expensive product, as of all the phones/computers/iPads/tablets/notebooks that are "Bluetooth" friendly could work the end product, as long as they didn't charge you monthly to use their App, plus the charges for their hardware, just to get into "Bluetooth". Uhh yeah!  kinda like common sense..............Brandy     

This is one I'll wait and see.  I saw it briefly at York, but I'm not convinced that it's a "must have".

 

In any case, we'll have lots of time to think about it before it comes out in O-gauge.

 

Ahhh Gunny, you know how all you old guys are, hard to make change Lets see you told me you were 70 or there about, I'm nearin 69 so, probably I'll hold on to my Cab-1 until, like my marriage, death do us part! .  I think we're all getting use to Walmart Prices, then when going to a Kroger's we get sticker shock. We all want the most user friendly, and cheapest we can get, but it sounds good anyway..............Brandy

I have a lot of conventional Williams engines. I'm looking forward to this new system. If I can upgrade my current locomotives easily and reasonably ( a big "IF") I would be very interested. My switches are all manual, my accessories are operated conventionally, so if I get sounds and command operation I will look into it.

 

I have TMCC on one loop and it is fine, but if I could reasonably run my Williams engines in command, too, I'd certainly check it out.

Yep, right there with you Trainfun, as I have 2 sets of Williams e-7's One L&N, the other C&O. I was getting ready to splurge on installing either ERR System or PS-2 with all of the Bells/horns they offer in both systems, but I think that I'll wait awhile, as I have enough other command control engines to keep me busy, until Bachmann comes thru with what ever! If it's comes thru as advertised, all you would need would be a board/chip, and an iPad/cell phone, something that you can down load their App. Then like "Magic" I'm in control, or until my Mrs wants something done, and that never has anything to do with running trains. Curses foiled again! 

I CANNOT wait for this technology to propogate so I can buy a $50 chip and use an old phone to control a locomotive on any layout.  You know what every O-gauge layout in the world has in common?  The ability to supply ~18v to the rails.  No more waiting for a $200-300 command "system" to ship from China.

I don't see you buying a $50 retail package to upgrade to BT.  Remember, you need stuff like motor drivers, not to mention command triggered sounds. 

Who said I needed sound?  Besides, in a bluetooth environment,  all the sound can be processed and controlled on a mobile device,  only the actual audio needs to be transmitted to the engine,  and that can be an optional upgrade (otherwise the sound would come from the mobile device or a commercially available Bluetooth speaker.)

I suspect you'll need a motor driver board Brian.   Besides, even the BT sound receiver is going to cost something.

 

This is one of those "I'll believe it when I see it" situations.  While they may indeed offer a package for O-scale locomotives, I'll be amazed if it's anything close to $50 for full functionality.

 

If you don't need sound, you can have TMCC capability in that price range right now.  Until the end of the year, you can have the ERR Cruise Commander Lite for $50 MSRP and less from many dealers.

 

It certainly won't be INTRODUCED at $50/per, but give it time.   I would view the fact that I CAN buy a CClite for $50 as proof that components are cheap enough.  Surely you see the long-term benefit of having only the driver and speaker in the loco and all the logic on an upgradeable device?

I'm pretty sure the CC-Lite is a loss leader at $50, they're just doing that for a couple of months to get the word out.  I believe the MSRP will be $99.95 after the end of the year.  I'm buying a bunch of them at the discount price, simply because I'm sure I won't see that price again.

 

Like I said, I'll wait and see.

 

Bluetooth motor driver board.
http://www.tinyosshop.com/inde...oduct&product_id=666

Can drive two motors up to 2 amps each, 5-24 vdc.

Gunny, re-reading this post, I caught that you witnessed this new electronics from Bachmann. What exactly was your take? I understand your wait and see, but with you being a Master electronics tech, as well as inventor of electronics systems and modules. Exactly what was your take on it, and did you ever think, of indulging into the "Bluetooth" thing yourself?

Gunny this is just another question, as my expertise with electronics/electricity, is 2 wires "Hook-em Up", 3 wires ****em Up. You probably caught that when emailing you, before buying your "Super Smoker" for my 2-10-4...................Brandy!   

  i have been running my ps3 engine sounds through an fm transmitter mounted in a host engine to a subwoofer for a year now..complete game changer.

Bachmann had the remote at york, it was a pretty brief demo, and I think there's a video.

 

Here it is.

 

The remote was my ipad mini - I also has an iphone to use. In other words there is no remote.

Well... there is a remote, it's just an existing device.

Yep. It seems like most folks want to refer to this product as a "system" which I completely understand, however if you own a smart device that supports Bluetooth 4 all you will need to purchase is a locomotive in order to try it out.  

I think a lot of the excitement about this is due to the simplicity of the system. No worries about star wiring, AIU's, TIU's, remote controllers, command bases, etc. The devil is always in the details, but the promise of simple, very user friendly command operation is very alluring. Whether the Bluetooth delivers on that promise will determine how successful this Easy App is.

 

Another key will be how reasonable it is to upgrade older Williams locomotives. A $50- $75 Bluetooth board would prompt me to do a number of upgrades. The cost of Proto 2, 3 or ERR upgrades just isn't feasible for me.

 

Lots to anticipate and speculate about. We should have a better read on the product when the HO locomotives appear.

 

In the Bachmann presentation Gunrunner posted above, it was clear that this is aimed at a younger demographic as well as mature hobbyists. For youngsters who love video games, this makes model railroading a 3-D video game. Hook kids with Thomas and Friends and then introduce them to modern railroading. At the very least it is an interesting plan.  

I think that the big Blue Tooth advantage could be reliable engine control.  You wouldn't need to worry about star wiring, power district blocks, ground planes, proper antenna wiring in the engines, chokes on caboose light systems, etc.  

 

I have used a Lionel Chief system.  Its direct connection to an engine is consistent and reliable.  I think that a direct Blue Tooth connection may be even better. 

 

Joe

 

 

 

 

Other than really large layouts, I've had no issues at all with TMCC operation, so reliable is within reach with existing systems.

 

The advantage lies in expandability. The ability to write software programming for this technology goes way beyond the capabilities of what is currently on the market. Think about all of the possible add ons and  the gaming possibilities.... I constantly see posts bemoaning the fact that kids aren't interested in model trains anymore and they would rather play video games. Well Bachmann is poised to marry the two. Think about building a virtual layout on your ipad and then being able to run the real layout with what you have just created - it joins the real and virtual world together. Imagine running your loco from a virtual cab where you can keep track of the the boiler pressure, the water level, etc... It can be as simple or complex as you want it to be. You could have it set so that you need to perform all of the steps necessary to get a locomotive moving just like the prototype or just run it in toy train mode. Thinking about all of the possible applications is really staggering! This goes way beyond what the current control systems can do - and it is really EZ!!!

Thanks to all for your in put, as when I viewed the York demo, a few weeks back, and reviewed it again, thanks to Gunny posting the original. not being electronic intelligent, this seemed like the system that would replace what we're using now. As BucksCo said, the expandability will be never ending, and also said that the App would be a free one from the App store. It would be nice if the internal electronics that will be involved will be more affordable than anything that we're using today, and also making what we have now, upgradeable to "Bluetooth" system. Thus elemination of signal strength, AIU/TIU issues, as we now have with the "DCS" , and sometimes with Legacy.

BucksCo does Bachmann have anytime frame for "Bluetooth" in O gauge, or at least the electronics that we can add to our existing O Gauge engines and other equipment, or is this going to be a wait and see deal?............Brandy

 

Yikes, you are taking all the fun out of things with this new system here. I am still trying to figure out what some of the devices are and why I would need one for my current systems. Now they are going to eliminate the need all together? A guy just can't have any fun anymore...what ever will we do with all our free time if we have nothing to add, troubleshoot or repair? All that will be left is to put greasy little fat finger prints on our phone screens and watch trains go around in circles. Oh boy, I'm not sure this is going to be good?  

As many of the folks here know I am employed by Bachmann (that's me in the video from the TCA museum). We are working with a group of programmers/designers to develop this product. We have the trains and they have the Bluetooth programming ability. We are planning to release this product around mid-2015 in HO scale (our best selling scale). We are pretty confident that other scales will follow in a timely manner. We will release information as we progress. The hardware is where we want it and we are basically tweeking the software. As I said earlier the software will continue to be developed long after it's release.

BucksCo, I looked for the new App from the App store and it don't come up, so whats the secret?

Hey rtr12, we won't have to call out the local Pope to prebless our layouts, to eleminate problems we have before a run, and sometimes call him out to do a "Major Exorcism", eleminating unwanted VooDoo! That will be a plus right there.

The App will not be available to the public until the locos are released.

Hehe, yes I know and that's what worries me. I sometimes enjoy the visits from the Pope and the exorcisms that need to be performed to remove the demons. Call me odd (which I probably am), but I kind of like that part of the hobby and I learn a lot that way. Sometimes I even remember things I have learned here on the forum and am able to use those to make the fix. However, to further clarify, I only enjoy it if the exorcism is successful and the demons are completely removed! If that doesn't happen in a reasonable time, I start looking for a very large hammer to take matters into my own hands.

Well ok BucksCo, I assumed, that with what you demoed at York, that it must be available for viewing. This would give us something to mull over until the finished products hit the markets!  You know the old saying about the word ASSUME?....

We have to keep in mind that it's likely to be at least a year before this is available in O-gauge, and maybe longer.  I don't think WBB is tripping over themselves to develop cutting edge O-scale stuff.

Can't release it until it is finished....

There is a reason we haven't committed to a control system for O gauge. We are releasing this in our most popular scale which is HO - need to make some equity from it before doing it in the scales that are not as robust sales wise.