Williams by Bachman big game changer-BYOD

The boys from Big Bang Theory love this.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61a0qHFcQE4

 

Answers a lot of questions. Thanks for the link.

I don't want to sound negative here but I don't see an ikon to open the couplers remotely yet alone the many other cool things we can do with DCS or Legacy.

 

Brad

I'm waiting for the robot that will build and run my trains so I can go off and do other things...

 

Rusty

Thanks Rusty Traque, I loved the short vid/advertisement.  Hilarious!

I don't want to sound negative here but I don't see an ikon to open the couplers remotely yet alone the many other cool things we can do with DCS or Legacy.

 

Jack said more features are to be added later. I have answered a lot of questions that I didn't ask. Jack has been in the O-Gauge business a long time. He covered quite a bit in our discussion knowing what our concerns would be. He handed me his tablet and I found quite easy to use.

I missed this. Scott, do you recall what engine they were running? Not sure this would be a drop in for many O scale engines.

 

They were HO NYC F-3's. If it fits in HO it will fit in our trains.

Scott Smith

 

 

 

From my point of view, the exciting feature is that with this board a command base (or DCS equivalent) would not be needed. Just power the track, turn on your device and you can control the engine.

 

I bet that it could be easily extended to accessory controllers for control switches.

 

The bottom line is that manufacturers would no longer have to sell their remotes. I can easily foresee the day (within 3-5 years) that all our DCS/Legacy remotes will have components made of "unobtanium" and therefore not reparable.

To those of you who look forward to running your entire layout by tapping a glass screen I say I feel sorry for you. The end result is you'll be looking at your screens more and watching your trains less. 

 

I'll pass on that.

 

Imagine, you'll be able to quill a whistle just like a real engineer, by running your finger up and down a glass screen. Does that sound appealing to you?

 

Scrappy

 

 

 

 

 

This is simply another option.  No more, no less.

 

Personally, I'm not going to run out and buy an iPhone, iPad or iWatever to control my trains.  I have perfectly good controllers (TMCC, DCS, DCC and conventional,) to control my trains.  I use my mobile phone as a phone: No text, no camera, no internet, no loss.

 

All sorts of technology is out there permeating 21st Century life, but there is no law that says everyone must use it all.  I will choose what to use and what to ignore.

 

Rusty

As we reach page 3 of this thread, Bachman Bluetooth seems like a cool feature for those folks who might buy Williams in the future, or currently have Williams engines (or other brand conventional engines) that they might wish to update to this Bluetooth technology.

 

For the rest of us (a majority or O gauge operators) the Williams Bluetooth just becomes another proprietary command system that many folks likely would have no interest in.

 

Although I am a conventional operator, I have several 3rd Rail, Atlas, K-Lines engines with TMCC.  There is no reason that I can think of to pull out the existing command to plug in another.  I also plan on taking the plunge into Legacy and adding TMCC to several other conventional engines, as all parts for the conversion are currently available. 

 

To me, having an iPad or tablet is still a remote and isn't much different than having a Legacy/TMCC or DCS remote. 

 

If I was new, coming into hobby and wanted to buy a Williams train set, heck yea this Bluetooth technology would be of interest to me.  But if I was also interested in buying a train from another manufacturer, my Bluetooth interest would wane.

 

Jim 

Interesting but will it be backwards compatible. I think using a tablet is great I just have to rember turning off my notifications so I am not getting emails popping up if and when I ever run an engine thru this system.   Nothing is free;Bachmann's  bluetooth system might be compatible with their engines, but will it work with others, Without major electronic upgrades.

 

As others have noted you will need a dcc decoder for the blue tooth to communicate. I'm not an electronics wiz; so all of those older locomotives will have to be upgraded in order to work. Where is the simplicity?

Oh Rusty...you didn't know about the new law...everyone has to use every bit of technology invented. You're not allowed to choose. Haha, Just kidding, but why would it be any other way than the way you stated it?

 

Personally, I was kind of disappointed in the video demo. One thing that would have grabbed my attention was a slow throttle speed in both directions...like 2 SMPH. But, instead, it was either all on or all off, so it really wasn't a good demo. Yet, I'm sure much work has to be done yet. Regarding controlling switches, track power and accessories...each one of those devices would have to have a bluetooth receiver or some kind of "hub" that controls 7 devices. I didn't see anything even close to that on the iPad screen, but there could be more pages to that app. It's a very interesting development that will require watching. I, for one, wouldn't mind having some less expensive engines on my layout. I thoroughly enjoy my DCS system in that I have so much control. Next?

 

George (G3)

Interesting.  The only downside, is you will need the latest and greatest smart device, as Bluetooth LE is required for this type of connectivity.    We looked at Bluetooth many years ago, and for iOS to work you needed a hardware chip from Apple (or apple approved vendor).  They controlled the Bluetooth integration very tightly.  Now with Bluetooth LE, the doors are open; but the hardware (any manufacturer's Phone or Tablet)has to be the latest or you can't pair.

Thanks Jon, for that comment and perspective.   This is good, but not a game-changer for me.   WBB will need to come up to the LC+ level for me to invest heavily in these locos:  fan driven smoke, speed control, remote uncoupler.   I will buy at least one just to play with, or if available for an upgrade for my existing WBB locos.

 

Jon, how about releasing some of the FT locos with LC+, to head up my FT passenger sets?   Please start with a SantaFe FT.

 

Ken

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"What he said !!!"

 

 Seriously tho, technology does have its place but it looks like society in general is in a head long rush into walling itself of from the real world and itself. Like the new Plug and Play from Lionel, it's for people who don't know or want to be bothered with cutting and stripping wire, (Lionels rep actually said this at the OGR Grandstand Meeting), but when these things break down or there's a problem with the trains they apparently won't be able to repair them either like many of us can do now and face it the track record recently for DOA trains isn't very good. If these people can;t strip wire do how long will they stay in a hobby that historically was a hands on repair hobby?

Jerry

 

Bachmann's system is neither designed nor really intended to be backwards compatible with anything currently existing in the O gauge world. If they were interested, they *could* produce a kit of boards to upgrade conventional AC powered O gauge locos to their system or to convert Legacy/DCS locos to their system - but the cost would likely be comparable to what these upgrade boards currently cost for upgrading conventional locos to TMCC or PS2. Or in other words - neither simple nor cheap.

Agreed. All I can see is my IPhone receiving a phone call or text message as calls override the screen & my $1000 locomotives slams into a parked train.

You know you can prevent your iPhone from doing that, don't you?

 

It's iOS 101....

LOL....

 

 Every time some new, fun technology appears, all the negativity ensues.

 

I am thankful members of OGR were not in charge of advance sin technology for the world during the industrial revolution.

 

Seriously, everyone who is poo-pooing this talks about, "need."

Since when is anything in the hobby a need?   Why can't it just exist because it's fun to some people?

 

I don't need TMCC, DCS, and Legacy.  At all.   However, I have them.  Why? because to me they're fun and another aspect of the overall hobby.

 

I also have an HO layout that uses DCC.   I will be an early adopter of this new technology from Bachmann.  Why? Because is looks like fun.  No other reason than that.

 

Remember, this is a hobby.  A diversion.  It's not serious business.  There is no such thing as a need. 

 

Also, feeling sorry for me if I run some trains from a smartphone or iPad?   Wow.

I would look at the screen no more than I look at my Legacy or DCS remote.

 

In the music business iOS devices are extensively used on stage to trigger things.  I promise our heads are not buried in the device.

 

 

I find myself mostly in agreement with Scrapiron Scher.

 

There is something to be said for the ability to hit some functions on a remote without having to look at it to do so. 

 

I know I can freely adjust the speed, hit the whistle/bell/horn, and direction and maybe even toggle between 2 engines without physically placing my eyes on the remote control. 

 

I'm at a loss to understand how that may be possible with a touch screen that is totally flat for it's entire surface.  You pretty much need to look to see what "button" you are hitting.

 

Mike Wolf pretty much flat out stated when asked at his Museum presentation on Wednesday that there would never be an update to the physical DCS remote.  He stated that everything everyone has been clamoring for in an update is already there in a tablet or phone.  I can see his point to a great extent in terms of the display itself (color, bigger display, better resolution, etc), but the loss of tactile response to me is not worth the trade.

 

Make no mistake, a large part of why Mike is so quick to embrace this is the relief of not needing to invest a big pot of money in R&D for a new remote.  It's probably got more to do with that than the "coolness" factor.  While it's now ancient history, the remote seemed to be one of the biggest challenges when he first released DCS (if anyone remembers  - the first demos of DCS at York used a PC to control the trains when the remote was not yet available).  I have 2 DCS remotes, but I may have to consider getting another before they become unavailable.

 

While Lionel has not made such claims (about not ever making another remote) at this point, it would not be shocking if they eventually follow suit.

 

-Dave

 

I'd rather play with an iphone.

 

 

Not sure why this is quite as polarizing as it is.  There will always be proprietary controls, at least for the foreseeable future.  No one is trying to take them away.  I see the WBB application as a way to broaden interest in the hobby to younger people, with the potential advantage of eventually being a universal operating system.  As far as age goes and based on the last few York shows I have attended, driving down the average age of the TCA member / train hobbyist can't be a bad thing.

 

 

 

'Ya know, you stay off the Forum FEWER than 24 hours, and this happens.

 

Boy, will I be glad when this dies down, so we can sort through the wreckage. The whole app thing is so obvious...DCS and Legacy are probably evolutionary dead-ends, but will survive for quite a while. They are almost certainly superior for our purposes - right now.

They are better - right now. Heck, I never even "upgraded" from TMCC to Legacy. TMCC

is just so reliable and friendly. (However, I ran a friend's 2-rail O-scale straight DC equipment a bit over the weekend - really pretty nice; polarity control, no sound, grownup gearing - and all that can go wrong with the loco is the very replaceable motor. It was all about the trains and the railroad. Nice.)

 

So, the only pad that I have is a yellow legal pad, and my cell phone is off most of the

time, and flips open, and I don't know how to use most of it anyway (and it's 10 years old),

and didn't C. Heston carry some tablets down off some mountain or another?

 

The general US and world Phone Culture is such an irritating one that I am automatically put off by Bachmann's system...but that's me. That will change. Maybe. Unless I go straight DC.

 

Remember, to most of us here (and not just the old ones) railroading is interesting. Electronics are not.

One other aspect not yet mentioned here (sorry if I missed it), it would seem you need multiple tablets or phones for when your battery needs charging.

 

I guess that is not a big deal for most, and charging the device every night may suffice if you are already in that habit (I'm sure the train apps don't drain the battery any more than everything else people do with a phone, so maybe it will be fine).  To the best of my knowledge (ever see the commercials for the new Samsung Galaxy?), there is no way to swap a dying battery on most of these units.

 

Slapping in a new set of AA or AAA batteries to a normal remote gets you back in business within a minute or 2.

 

-Dave

 

I'll see your LOL, and raise you a LOL!  

 

I could see how this Bluetooth app would really be neat when running a single train around a Christmas layout.

 

It might also be neat for running a couple of Williams trains around a layout. 

 

I don't see it however, running Legacy/TMCC controlled Lionel, Atlas, Weaver, 3rd Rail, or K-Line engines. Nor see it running MTH DCS controlled engines.

 

Cool feature? absolutely.

 

Game changer? Not in my book.

 

Jim

 

I like this idea a lot! However, just like with Lionchief, I am concerned if we can operate these engines conventionally?

What I would truly like to see is a simple (CHEAP) box to go between my ZW (okay, the fuses after my ZW) and the track that uses the transformer voltage to control ANY train on the track from my iPhone (speed, whistle, bell, etc). I'd also want it to be able to be turned off to control it with the transformer conventionally.

Well MTH PS3 engines are DCC compatible so if Bachmann's Blue Tooth chip can be integrated with it then good by TIU's, WiFi box, Remote etc.

 

Some want onboard batteries then here's the setup.

 

Game changer definitely  

Hi CarGuyZM10 and Folks,

    I was thinking exactly that, but also I'd like to have a bank of Bluetooth controlled relays so I could easily integrate the Bluetooth into a conventionally wired layout for switches/turnouts or other devices wired to a control panel.  Perhaps a Bluetooth controlled simple AC transformer with a whistle/bell feature would be nice.

 

    Let's hope someone is watching.

 

Take care, Joe.

 

 

 

Hi all,

The real-game-changer is Open-Source Direct-Bluetooth-Control (something like NMRA’S DCC specifications & recommended practices).  The fact that it is a real-game-changer is why it will probably never happen.  This is not a manufacturer-put-down; I would probably being doing the same in their shoes.

We (mostly HO) posters on another forum also have a long thread on Bachmann's Bluetooth, and have been trying to find out where the sound comes out, iDevice, remote-bluetooth-speaker, or locomotive.
Bachmann's announcement talking about sound is here: http://resources.bachmanntrains.com/ihobby2014/

Can anybody here (who has seen Beckmann’s demonstration) post the answer?
Thanks!
Bob

For-Your-Information:
I have created a group called “Open-Source-Bluetooth-Train-Control” whose purpose is to encourage, promote, and develop Open-Source-Bluetooth-Train-Control. If you (individual or organization) are interested in possibly being a contributor, then do a web search for “Open-Source-Bluetooth-Train-Control”.

Hi RT Coker,

    According to the Blue Rail site:

" How does sound work in these trains?
For our initial board release, train sounds will play within your smartphone/tablet and can also be played through AirPlay speakers on your layout.  Our current control app contains realistic sounds that synch with operation.  We have plans to support loco-specific sound packs within the app.  We have further ambitions to allow for the triggering of sound modules within the locomotives - so check back for that. "

 

That's all I can find.

 

Take care, Joe.

Thanks Joe,

The BlueRail site has apparently been update since I last visited.  I was hoping that they had put a remote Bluetooth speaker in the locomotive (a relatively easy thing to do).  There demo HO locomotive appeared to have been designed for a speaker.

Bob

 

All,

It would not take much effort for a manufacturer to produce a buttons and knobs bluetooth-controller.

 

The Bluetooth signal-bandwidth is ~140 times wider (faster) that the signals that can be propagated down the rails, and is a lot more reliable than DCC.

 

If you are planning on getting an iDevice to use with the BlueRail board(s), make sure you get one that supports bluetooth 4.x.  The official list of Bluetooth 4.x consumer products is here: http://www.bluetooth.com/Pages/Bluet...ices-List.aspx.

 

Bob

I mentioned this on the modelrailradio.com podcast last nights show recording.  The host is working on getting BlueRail on a show down the road.  Also if Bachmann would like to come onto the show to discuss this we would be more than happy to have them on the show to discuss this.

 

I'm wondering if this might prompt Lionel to make a multi-train remote for the LionChief line.

 

I think some posters have hit on a key point here.  Touchscreen interfaces are not good for every situation.  For instance, I think they have no place in a car, yet here they are in so many of today's vehicles.  Talk about a distraction because they force your eyes to be on the screen before you push a button.  I operate my old style radio without ever looking at it.  It's all by feel as I know exactly where the buttons are to either cycle through my presets or adjust the volume.  Further, the knobs have grooves in them so my actions are constrained.  I can't just accidentally move the knob too fast and the volume jump too high.

 

Train control is the same way.  With tablets, your eyes must be on the controller for every single adjustment you want to make.  And as I mentioned above, it's hard to do precise control movements on a touchscreen.  It's too easy to fat finger and either the control doesn't move, or your finger slips and it moves too much, etc.  There is something to be said about physical buttons.

 

However, I like the idea of using consumer technologies like Bluetooth.  In that respect, I do think it's a good idea.  I just think that there is a market for an add-on "dummy" handheld controller like we are used to that would talk to the tablet, which talks to the train.  The dummy controller would simply translate actions to the tablet add back the tactile controller we are used to. It would give people that option to control their trains instead of relying on the touchscreen interface.

This technology has a broad appeal.
Consider this I could now:
Run one or many trains at the same time....
across many different gauges
on one layout
or more that one layout
at a club event
at a train show
at my house and or a family members (vice versa)
and...
Through the hobby shop window without telling the owner. ;-)

And once properly equipped:
I could run my accessories.
I could run my switches from any manufacturer.

Now why would I want to run many trains of many gauges on the same layout at the same time???
1. Enhances the realism through perspective
2. Remember all the cool stuff from the Wunderland exhibit in Germany? Not that much!! But its the concept anyway.

This technology is simple and cheap. A blue tooth dongle can be had for less than 5 dollars.  They could offer their locomotives without the blue tooth and you could upgrade it without the cost going through the roof.  How many times have you places a locomotive on the track and drove your self crazy because the system couldn't find it. By using blue tooth it is a direct connection from the locomotive to the pad with the app.  MTH will eventually do away with the remote and you can have multiple screens open on a tablet if you are worried about needing multiple controls. In the future blue tooth will be able to handle more than 7 devices at one. There are so many directions that they could go with blue tooth and plug and play dongle inside the locomotive so you could replace it as technology advances. A blue tooth dongle with a micro USB plug would be tiny and unabtrusive.  If they let the APP code be an open source you will get people customizing it and giving it away for free.

Yes I can see what you're saying is on the horizon.  It sounds very appealing for the layout.  I can envision myself using it on the layout, while still running conventional around the Christmas tree 

Holy Crap!!!!!! Im Not a techno freak.

in fact I cant stand computers.

I run conventional with postwar ZWs,

 but that has got to be the

coolest thing Ive ever seen.