Williams by Bachman big game changer-BYOD

I may sound like a broken record here but I'm hoping for a 'cab cam' to view the track ahead from my device. Perhaps Bachman will be the first here too!

Tell you what...if Williams can under cut Lionel and MTH in price like they always do and deliver high quality detailed blue tooth controlled trains....then all I can say is, I AM THERE BABY!

 

I think this is very true.  Look at how many guys here took to the LionChief and LionChief+.  That totally surprised me but it makes sense for a lot of people.  Our normal lives are so technology driven now that many of us don't want to continue that in our hobbies.  Instead, we want to keep it simple and fun instead of being a second job trying to figure out Legacy, complicated, wiring, etc.  Just turn the throttle and go.

 

It is great that there are simple and complicated options to appease all of us.

 

It was demo'd a little on Model Railroader's i-Hobby video report(must be a subscriber to view.)

 

To control a second locomotive one has to return to the home screen and select the next locomotive.  It looked like only one locomotive control could be displayed at one time.

 

Rusty

It would be nice if all this technology coming out was backward compatible. Im not an electronic wiz and don't feel like upgrading all my mth and lionel etc. It would be great if a technology like this could run all trains, conventional, tmcc, dcs etc.

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Just a guess but I think there will only be one "all inclusive" version of each engine. 

If you have ever look at those sites that tear down smart phones and tablets and do cost analysis of the parts, the Bluetooth chip is very small and adds very little to the cost of the device. 

It may be cost effective to just build one version that runs conventional or Bluetooth.

 

Brad

This could kill the whole upgrade business. Just put in a Bluetooth chip and your in business. This could be a game changer IMO.

 

I wonder if that could be done to older locomotives?

 

Better minds then me will let us know I guess

This could be a game changer IMO.

 

I wonder if that could be done to older locomotives?

If this technology becomes universal, i.e. able to install in older equipment, it will be a game changer.  The best part will be simplified track wiring.  You won't have to deal with the protocols for other remote systems.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing how this develops.

I just knew there was a reason I was waiting to get into command control and I had a sneaking suspicion it would have something to do with Bluetooth. I'm glad I waited and will be eagerly anticipating the transfer of the technology from Bachmann to the WBB product line. 

I find that I can only run one train at a time.  The ability to control one train at a time would not be be a game changer for me.

 

I wonder if Bachman or someone else will develop a Blue Tooth device that can control O gauge sound, couplers, smoke, etc.  I would probably convert my engines to this technology assuming it is reliable.  I am tired of worrying about signal strength, etc.  

 

Joe

Many here have mentioned over the years that MTH and Lionel should have worked together to develop a common system that would be compatible with DCC. Perhaps this will jar some new thinking among the big guys...

As you add the components to control I imagine the cost goes up.  The Bluetooth reciever could be cheap but what it controls could get expensive.  Who knows.  I still think it's a pretty cool thought an I for 1 will keep and eye on it.

I'm currently reading "Arduino For Dummies", hopefully this and/or the effort by Bachmann WILL be the game changer we've been looking for.

 

Are there Bluetooth apps for a Kindle, or is a Kindle just a reader?

Am I missing something?  Isn't this just yet another command system, even if it is one that runs from a tablet instead of a remote?

 

Is it a proprietary system that will run only Williams by Bachman engines or engines that have been updated with these Bachman electronics?

 

Will Bachman put these electronics in all future Williams offerings, thereby upping the cost to customers whether they want command control or not?

 

Why would the HO crowd be interested when they currently have DCC?

 

Jim

I was trying to decide which wireless tablet or digital pad to get someday.

 

Andrew

 The Bluetooth receiver in the locomotive receives the commands - but it must then pass those commands on to a "decoder" to interpret them and control how much of the AC voltage on the rails is passed through the decoder to the DC motor in the locomotive - and in what polarity for direction control.   Bachman is big time into DCC in other scales.   I wouldn't be surprised if they employed a beefed up DCC decoder integrated with the Bluetooth receiver to control the locomotive.  With their existing partnership with SoundTraxx (Tsunami decoders) including a sound capability would be a piece of cake.

 

Very Interesting

 

Ed Rappe 

 

 

Until the next "game changer" comes along...

 

Rusty

I've been saying for a few years that Lionel and MTH need to get out of the electronics R&D end of the hobby and use what's out there (open source and Plug&Play).  Maybe now they will.  Paying for R&D-ing electronics (even for Bachmann) has got to be taking a lot of their $$$ that could be used to upgrade/make new items we would rather see.

 The Bluetooth receiver in the locomotive receives the commands - but it must then pass those commands on to a "decoder" to interpret them and control how much of the AC voltage on the rails is passed through the decoder to the DC motor in the locomotive - and in what polarity for direction control.   Bachman is big time into DCC in other scales.   I wouldn't be surprised if they employed a beefed up DCC decoder integrated with the Bluetooth receiver to control the locomotive.

From what I understand the bluetooth is interfaced with DCC decoder.

Scott Smith

Ah... so it uses a DCC decoder and uses the Bluetooth app on top of that.

 

So, if Bachman introduces this into O gauge, then they would be adding a 3rd command system, but it would be DCC.  It seems to me, this is something that they were thinking of doing in O gauge several years ago?

 

Jim

 Jim posts an interesting question here...

Many people asked the same question, for the same reasons, when LionChief was introduced  - but that idea seems to be working out just fine for Lionel.

 

Bachmann's product is novel, is wireless, uses an iPhone or iPad as a remote, is simple to set up, and requires nothing else be purchased other than an "E-Z App" engine. To a lot of current and soon-to-be owners of HO trains, those are all the reasons they need.

 

"Lionel and MTH need to get out of the electronics R&D end of the hobby and use what's out there (open source and Plug&Play)"

 

This is exactly what LionChief and LionChief Plus represent. Not open source, but otherwise what you are specifying.  Both use off the shelf 2.4 GHz spread spectrum radio control equipment used in many other toys.  And the controller comes with the loco or set.  No additional control device, command base, tablet, smartphone or other gizmo needs to be purchased or owned.

DCC maybe open source; however Bachman has applied for patient for their bluetooth trains.

Scott Smith

There is also no particular reason they even need to use DCC protocols when they get around to implementing this system on O gauge locomotives. DCC was designed to work within the limitations of the technology at the time, whereas data communication over Bluetooth removes all those limitations. It would be much easier to implement their own proprietary method for sending commands over the all-digital Bluetooth wireless link, since there is no need to maintain backwards compatibility with the old DCC command system.

 

How many folks here have been already complaining about having a separate controller for each locomotive?  Or that they can't control LionChief locomotives with their TMCC of Legacy rigs? (Except for LC+ in conventional.)

 

LionChief and LC+ is perhaps a great idea for the entry level or casual, seasonal train set person, but will likely become unsustainable if a person grows into the hobby. 

 

10 years from now, will someone be able to replace a missing or damaged LC controller?  Maybe, maybe not.  Only time will tell.

 

Additionally, how many folks are going to abandon their TMCC, Legacy, DCS, DCC systems to retrofit their entire rosters for this latest "game changer" of bluetooth?

 

Bachmann's bluetooth system is merely going to be yet another control option, not a replacement.

 

Rusty

 

 

Agreed. I don't see this as being a "game changer" either. This product merely allows Bachmann to keep up with the competition by providing their own method for controlling an engine wirelessly with a smartphone or tablet.

 

By doing away with a proprietary remote control Bachmann's system does address the issue you raised regarding broken or lost controllers - that alone is one significant"plus" for their system. Another indirect plus is that operators can now use the same controller (ie tablet or smartphone) to simultaneously run not only their engines but also those from Lionel and MTH.

You raise a fair point Rusty.

 

My sense of it, combined with what Lionel is doing with Lion Chief Plus, is that the manufacturers are looking for a way to bring the control interface in line with how people use other hobby / entertainment products.  In this manner, the market for the hobby could be expanded. 

 

Moreover, I like the possibilities in terms of ending the standoff between MTH and Lionel with control systems.  That has never been in the interest of the hobby -- although I understand that they can work together, it is far from seamless and it is intimidating to someone who hasn't tethered the two together before.  Not blaming anyone in particular for that issue but it is not a plus for new entrants.  This system would seemingly have the ability to overcome that issue.  Time will tell.

Every where ya go kids are using either a tablet/smartphone. So if they get the app to easily to control mutipule locos ,scales and turnouts off the same app other than conventional this should eventually wipeout tmcc/legacy, dcs and hopefully make a universal operating system. No more remote sections for accesories.We can all ready run your tv and and start your car from your phone/tablet. And elimiates all the remotes down ta one. Now only if we could get a camera in loco or cars and feed back to tablet/phone.

I don't see why this system would wipe out TMCC/Legacy or DCS. This wouldn't happen unless Lionel and MTH decide to abandon their own proprietary systems in favor of this new proprietary system from Bachmann - and I don't see them having any incentive for to do so. The considerable investment that we all have in Lionel's and MTH's existing products would be reason enough for both manufacturers to maintain the status quo. Lionel (and within the next six months, MTH) already have their own smartphone apps to control their respective trains - this new product allows Bachmann to provide new owners of Williams locos the same option.

I don't think it's been covered here yet, but I will assume this app will be for Android as well as iPhones. Is Lionel still Apple only?

Bachmann's current app is iOS (Apple) only. I would expect an Android app will eventually be made available for devices that meet the Bluetooth requirements.

scott, thanks so much for sharing this amazing news. it makes me rejoice that I held off buying any engine at York a few days ago.

  i hope this Bachman "system" is up and running for 3 rail O at next October York. I would definitely acquire a few diesels. as many have said, and I also know...Bachman stuff is well priced and very good!

 

  wish i had not passed up the Bachman booth at York!

 

http://www.bluerailtrains.com

Link to the developer site with a demo video

My hobby is model railroading, not computers,

I missed this. Scott, do you recall what engine they were running? Not sure this would be a drop in for many O scale engines. Bluetooth is Radio Frequency. It will be difficult to penetrate die cast or brass engines directly. Some sort of antenna would have to added to those engines external to the body. Cool idea though.

 

Pete

I just don't get it. I really don't.

Call me a Luddite who uses remote control.

1) I have many locomotives.

2) I have 40 switches on my layout

3) I have hundreds of lighted structures and accessories.

4) I have sidings to power and unpower.

5) I have Legacy sound and action cars to activate,

6) I have multi locomotive consists to build

 

Are you suggesting to me that I can do ALL of that on one device in the SAME time frame I use now and do it SEEMLESSLY as I do now? I simply do not believe it.

 

I use two remotes one in each hand and I can run ALL my trains and do ALL of the above.

i do not believe that on ONE screen, be it a phone or IPAD, that you can do all those things. You would HAVE to constantly change screens instantly.

 

Here is what I do not understand.

How would it be an advantage to try to do ALL of the above on an IPAD screen, even if it were possible, which it AIN'T right now. You would have to change screens so many times, you would never see the trains. YIKES.

 

Here is what is bothering me . .

i will lay it on the table so you can see my point.

 

It seems everyone is rushing headlong to put EVERYTHING on an IPAD.

Soon, I will sneeze using my IPAD.

 

The quality of what we do on an IPAD is not always better than what we do with our hands.

 

Just because you can figure out how to put it on a touch screen does not make it better.

It's just temporarily cool.

That will fade as our lives become too homogenized.

 

I do not want to become an air traffic controller who never looks at the trains.

Air traffic controllers just look at screens.

If you could run the real #765 with an IPAD, would you rather do that than climb aboard and pull the throttle ??

 

 

Ayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

 

I have spoken.

 

Luddite Scher

 

.

 

Truer words were never spoken.

Rusty

The system needs to be able to control more than 7 trains to be a game changer. It doesn't matter if 7 trains are running or if 1 train is running and 6 trains are parked. 7 trains on the track are still on and receiving the signal. 

 

The system would be great if you could model your layout on a tablet and be able to control all of the accessories as well.

 

Another advantage of this system would be running multiple unit engine sets. This would get rid of the cable that the various manufacturers run between the engines.