Williams by Bachman big game changer-BYOD

Can older devices be upgraded to bluetooth 4? When I stream music and my phone rings ,the music stops playing until the call is finish. Another problem I have is pairing when there is other signal near by. If this is still an issue, all other bluetooth devices other then the engine your wanting to pair with, would have to be shut off or you have to move out of range from those devices with your engine to get it to connect. I could imagine issues with a club layout if everyone is using bluetooth. Does anyone have a device with the bluetooth 4 and tried to pair with several different signals present ? Hopefully the new BT4 is better at pairing.

The music stops because it's programmed to so you can hear the call, not because the signal is interrupted.

Gentlemen,

   My guess is we will see how all this plays out in the future, I figure Lionel & MTH will just add something like this to their Legacy & DCS set ups.

PCRR/Dave

Hi Folks,

 

I would like to see a boxcar with a Bluetooth stereo sound system onboard, powered from internal batteries constantly kept charged by track power.  Nice if you can just add it to a consist and have the appropriate steam or diesel sounds synchronized to the speed, and an option for music and other sound effects.   For example, a small loco, like the Porter (no room for sound), could have steam, bell, and whistle sounds from this add-on boxcar, in addition to all kinds of sound effects.  Speakers could be positioned behind open boxcar doors for robust sound. 

 

Take care, Joe.

There are TONS of mini Bluetooth speakers on the market that would fit inside a boxcar. I'm sure our resident electrical gurus would make short work of designing a circuit to convert track power to the proper voltage.

Thanks!  I have looked into them and have a project in mind, but it would need to have an app that works in conjunction with the touchscreen throttle for the synchronized sound or something that reads train speed like a tachometer.  Simplest solution -- just a mini speaker in a boxcar, but the sound quality would have to be good.  I am thinking about a ready-made item for those who don't want to or have time to tinker.

 

Take care, Joe.

When I saw the BlueRail live demo they were playing synched sounds through a medium sized Bluetooth speaker that was just sitting on the layout. So that's already in the prototype.

As for a tachometer, I believe MTH holds a patent on the tape strip tach, and it's by far the best solution I can think of.

Thanks!   I am waiting for the first HO boards from BlueRail Trains to see the cost and the features within the app.  I am not into sound the same way others in the hobby are, but I like a rich sound.  Guess there are opportunities for other manufacturers to come up with something. 

 

Take care, Joe.   

Is my device charged yet honey? I want to run my trains.

Ok, I guess I'll sit here by the transformer and run them while waiting for it to charge.

 

 Considering the number of people I see tethered to a charging point everyday, I see this happening allot for many of you "phone people", "So knock 3 advantage points from that superiority total you've got in your heads".

 

 Wowak, "Your I love tech goggles are on a bit snug. A quilling whistle could be added to a base transformer cheaper than a whole cordless system of any kind.

  And much like driving a Model T, or a drop top Tesla, both are things that deserve to be experienced in order to be understood, and then chosen from, based on personal factors. And if possible, without real harm, neither an experience that should be denied a person whether the interest is simplicity, complexity, reliability, or convenience.

  In that respect , I too feel sorry for those "locked" to tapping their phones.

 And touch screens are far from perfect, I need lotion, a glove, or a stylus to use one reliably. So does a roomie, so does half my family.(I found this out just recently) There is still a need for "clunky mechanical things" despite apparent advancements, electronics aren't nearly as perfect as industry likes to promote.

 

 By the way, I think the "clunky thumb wheel" was designed specifically for one hand operation, with feeling in the control, so an operator would have operating control feedback, while momentum and other feature take place. And also without overshooting the goal, while waiting for visually detectible reactions in the train, and  to prevent unintentional movement of the setting while resetting your thumb on the wheel.

  Two handed operation necessary for Cab1, was a minor, but present criticizing of the Cab1 remote design. I think the large red dial was chosen for kid appeal, and brand recognition in the end. Two handed operation of a phone is more likely to be necessary than the "clunky wheel" IMHO. (And I still use the buttons on my TV often too, I don't watch, or change channels enough to track the remote well ) 

 Maybe its from life experiences before cell phones were around. The fact that allot of what was once considered rude behavior, is now "the norm", has allot to do with any negativity you sense in posts from those a bit older. Things like taking a phone call without excusing yourself while donning a shhhh look, all without thought of taking it to another room. That type of behavior would have got you physically removed from this house by my elders. When you hung up of course, as not to be too rude to the person on the other end of the call, but physically removed after the goodbye. No joke.

  I'm not pointing a finger, and its a new day for tech for sure. But mistakes will be made as long as "new and flashy" continues to trumps proven reliability. Its just a little insight to the scowls developed during a more polite "day before yesterday" . 

 

 

 

 

We get it, you're old and you resent technology.  Good news:  plenty of ZWs out there for you.

I don't think MTH has a patent on the strip, but just the notion of "scale MPH" for model trains.  Many people have used the tach strip, and Lionel currently has a fancy optical chopper tach on the Legacy products.  I do know that MTH has a patent on using the microprocessor to control the smoke unit and do dynamic braking of the smoke motor.

 

As far as mini blue tooth speakers, the problem is you can only connect and play one at a time, and they do not like motion. As soon as you start running around the layout, the sound cuts in and out.

 Yea that didn't read as nice as Id have liked, considering whom I'm addressing. Communication outside of face to face, not always my strong point. 

  

 I don't resent good tech, it fed me. I just got tired of the chase, and on occasion want to get away from it. So simple trains no longer being simple, not for me. But that's me. I wore those tech goggles too, and did computer language work pre-windows till about 4 years after its release before landing in coin-op tech by chance. HVAC electronics followed that, again by chance. I've never been fired, or demoted, only promoted without even seeking it.

 I just think we are often too eager to cry "this is the way... follow" before the path is fully paved. Admitting a weakness is the first step in improvements towards perfection.

  I love to point to drive by wire cars, and the SAE saying its great vs The Electronics Associations stance "its  not ready for without a backup computer(or two)" as a prime example of industrial "snake oil"(SAE being a bit too eager).

 

 And if your not already, you will be well over the hill before I reach an actual retirement age . I remember my childhood pretty well including my first Christmas, and birthday {Fisher price, & Lionel} as well as the habits, and one sided attitudes of the adults during those days (hippies vs squares vs yuppies ).  I was just a "little adult" as a kid, (making up for it now), brought up by old school people, and most of my friends are older. But on the other end there are also three people under twenty I live with, and hang out with daily too. So a pshaw your old, is apparently not the sole answer as to why Id say what I did.

  I don't expect you to agree because I say so, your obviously to smart for that. I only hope you would consider such issues more often, as you attempt to promote progress in the tech fields.

 

http://docs.google.com/viewer?...fs/US20140360399.pdf.

Most of these posts are about *** open-interface *** Bluetooth.  However the above patent application could turn Bluetooth layout control into a *** proprietary *** system owned by BlueRail.

Bob

 I think Bluetooth would have corning a market with the technology, pretty well covered in licensing agreements, assuming the BT creators have retained some control over BT.

 

As far as I know,to connect to Bluetooth you have to pair the devices,and
to do so you put them close together.So if someone has a Bluetooth enabled
iPad and is controlling an engine,unless someone else had a Bluetooth unit
in pairing mode and put it next to the ipsd,not likely to "grab, a
connection
On Apr 25, 2015 11:43 AM, "O Gauge Railroading On Line Forum" <
alerts@hoop.la> wrote:

One question I thought of,maybe one of the more knowledgeable tech folks
can comment I set up a Bluetooth transmitter off the sound board on my pc
and paired it with a Bluetooth speaker (we use the computer to stream music
from XM and spotify,etc).there is a definite delay (the sound board feeds a
splitter one leg to the Bluetooth transmitter,one to a speaker system) and
there is a definite delay because Bluetooth ĺthe version it uses)
compresses and decompresses the data.Would there be the same delay,prob 2-3
seconds for it used to send command signals?That could be significant. May
not be,streaming audio is a lot more bandwidth then command signals
On Apr 25, 2015 6:39 PM, "O Gauge Railroading On Line Forum" <alerts@hoop.la>
wrote:

While there is a noticeable and often objectionable latency with audio streaming over Bluetooth, the latency associated with sending short bursts of data (such as would be used to control a model train) is small enough that it is not a problem.

Any radio wave transmission is subject to delay, and the delay increases with type and distances. But outside of processing speeds, it doesn't even become really audible within layout sized areas. Even large ones.

 My LG blue tooth headset does fine moving about inside 70ft. Between walls too. But loses connection about 30 ft through the brick walls into the outdoors.

 There is cheap BT and great BT, same as anything else. Id say the LG is good at about $90.

   

With Bluetooth and audio the delay is not about distance,with the large
amounts of data being transmitted with audio,Bluetooth compresses and
decompresses the data and it slows it down.bluetooth speakers like the bose
one we have mention it in the manual,as do Bluetooth transmitters.I think
another poster is right,in answering my question,that with command
sequences it won't matter
On Apr 25, 2015 10:17 PM, "O Gauge Railroading On Line Forum" <
alerts@hoop.la> wrote:

Yea once paired for a session (turn it on near the transmitter of choice)  I've never  had another familiar device grab hold, or interfere. I've been signal "blasted" by something before though. I suspect a ham, C.B., taxi, ambulance, or cop transmission nearby.  

I only have one Williams E-7 set that i'm upgrading in the looks dept. I'm planning on running on my new layout. Do you think it can be upgraded to work with my Ipad? Wonder what the cost will be. Don

This is what would be “proprietary” even though it is using an “open-interface” Bluetooth.

 

“A control system for a model railroad includes a wireless transceiver circuit, associated with a model railroad device, and control software, operable upon a general purpose wireless smart device, comprising programming code for bidirectional wireless communication with the wireless transceiver circuit. The wireless transceiver circuit includes a control circuit, configured for controlling operation of the model railroad device, and a communication unit, configured for bidirectional communication between the wireless transceiver circuit and the general purpose wireless smart device. The control software is configured for allowing user commands entered via the general purpose wireless smart device to control operation of the control circuit." [This is the abstract from the patent application.]

 

The details are here: http://docs.google.com/viewer?...fs/US20140360399.pdf.

Bob

That links to a google ad .

   

 I thought BTs openness was limited, to prevent a certain amount of exclusiveness in the name of competition. But I'm no where near being a silicon valley lawyer, and I cant think of how I developed the notion at the moment. The specifics of build being proprietary sure, but nothing stopping others from using BT also, with a different configuration of hardware. Or would there be?

  I still think BT wanted to have some say so, in BT final uses.   

You can try this link: http://www.google.com/patents/US20140360399, and then click on the “View PDF” button near top-right.

 

Or you can do a web search for “patent application 20140360399”.

 

Or you can go here: http://appft1.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html and search for “20140360399”.  

Bob

Hi R T Coker,

 

   May I suggest you contact BlueRail Trains and ask them their intentions?  They have contact info on their site.   Nothing like having a dialog about all your concerns.

 

Take care, Joe

Joe,

Yes, this is a good suggestion. 

 

I have been in contact (forums & e-mail) with BlueRail for more that 7 months, and have even provided some minor help.  I am also available to them anytime by e-mail. 

 

I am very glad they are developing their Bluetooth board and have an agreement with a major train manufacturer to put it into locomotives.  However, I cannot support what I see in the patent application. 

Privately expressed intentions of the current patent assignee would never be a reason to give them control of an emerging new application that is not justified in the patent application.

Bob

There is no need to make a technical reference about “Microsoft” form another post sound like it is a personal one. 

 

To my knowledge the personal qualities of one of the developers (which I have no reason or desire to question) are not used to determine the validity of a patent application.

Bob

Do you guys think that O gaugers are willing (or interested in general) in opening their existing trains and wiring in a circuit board? From what I understand the boards can also be put back into standard mode if you want (by toggling the transformer a certain way).

I've upgraded several locomotives to PS2,  I am very interested in opening up my engines.  Heck I usually open them up as soon as I get one to have a look around.

So, what happens after the novelty of controlling trains through a smartphone wears off?

 

Rusty

     I feel the hobbyists who are heavily invested in DCC or any of the proprietary systems from Lionel and MTH will probably not be interested in changing to a simpler, less expensive system.  A lot of them are very happy and proud of their set-ups.  For people like me who like to tinker and don't own the expensive control systems, we would like an inexpensive do-it-yourself Bluetooth board or Bluetooth controlled AC transformer.  You can read through these and other forum posts and see that it upsets certain hobbyists that this new Bluetooth control might be take over.  Many of the arguments against the Bluetooth are full of incorrect assumptions.

 

    There is a lot of information on the net about Bluetooth and the Arduino to control RC cars and robots.  I have made 3 Bluetooth controllers using the PicAxe chip, a cheap Bluetooth transceiver, and a free remote control Android app.  Only trouble for me is in getting the boards and other components small (miniaturized) enough to be onboard (inside a loco). 

 

     The open interface issue is a difficult one and I understand R T Coker's concerns and disappointment.

 

       I am pushing the big six zero, but after I used a touch screen app with the wireless control directly to the train, there is no doubt for me. It is not a novelty, but rather a very smooth and easy to use form of control.  Hope it can be reasonably priced, too.

 

Take care, Joe

And I am past seven zero, and just recently purchased by first iDevice (or is that iClone), a 10” tablet.  Looking forward to the day that I can run my trains from it, and eventually a whole layout.  If I don’t succeed, then I will leave a challenge for my grandkids.

Bob

 

 I don't think many expect it to explode, and put anybody out of business, but as more open source ideas, and systems are used, proprietary lockdown can be less relevant. I view that as good for everyone. And as just one more choice for us now, why not.

 Having conventional capabilities as a common "standard" now, and growing the standards with time is off the edge, but still on the table. That a little bit of common ground also helps to keep the next big idea from making what its being introduced today, a useless thing tomorrow.      

 I also wouldn't be surprised if someone was laughing at us all with a DCS or Legacy touch screen in their hand right now.

I think the fact that Bachmann is allowing BlueRail to continue to develop independent products for DIY and DCC types that can go in any train (regardless of manufacturer) says something.

You can provide “facts” about the agreement between Bachmann and BlueRail?  Please tell us more, we are all ears.

Bob

I was just referencing what's written on the BlueRail Trains website. 

Thank you!

Now anyone that is interested will be able to check the posted “fact”.

 

It just didn’t sound right that the “licensee” Bachmann would be allowing the “licenser” (patent application assignee) BlueRail to develop the boards for other manufactures products.

Bob