Williams by Bachman big game changer-BYOD

Bachmann has already changed the Williams line. Almost every Williams item has been eliminated from their catalog.

If its cost isn't force fed to me, sounds like a very cool option. An option, like "expensive sound", that I don't like, and I would want to opt out of as is, to save costs, which is why many buy WbB now. Plug and play BT idea is obviously appealing to some, but controls you can feel are my preference.

"Eyes on the track Casey"! Tablets are eye distracting for sure, but the size of the controls does seem almost too big to miss. Touchscreen tech does hold some interesting possibilities for user interface changes. Split screen mode, or a throttle for each engine running would be great. Custom GUI's? Cool, but  I personally don't want another tablet phone or computer because the virtual keys are too hard to use. Most "smart" functions to my mouse pad are turned off too. (I wonder how many of you tablet fans can type at near 30 words per minute on it accurately? [the approx.min. WPM needed to pass a high school typing class]). A keyboard interface option might get me to spend on thatoption.

The amps necessary to run older engines vs can motors is the main reason no one is producing cheap command retro fits. Components to handle that much power just aren't cheap to assemble(or small). Seems someone was planning, or did, a high amp AC command board of some type. Wouldn't using one on transformer leads before the track give those interested simple variable power and e-unit control of one track by remote?

What would be really interesting would be (& I bet will be) proximity and anti-collision sensors for saving us all on lazy brain days. A loco should be able to "see" a large obstacle by now too. Some "optos" can be configured to see amazing detail. Automobiles do it at high speed, porch lights see, faucets see, Halloween toys see, greeting cards see, etc. Track curves would be the real challenge. Multiple sensors angled?....umm, I'm waiting.     

All good, but what happens when it loses the signal in a tunnel?   

Uh, probably exactly what happens when TMCC or DCS lose the signal, which is continue at the last set speed until signal is reaquired?

Compared to not doing it at all, or using a clunky DCS thumb-wheel?  Sounds REALLY appealing.

When will the App be available for down loading? I watched the presentation that was put on in York, and I thought it was already there...............Nothing at the Apps Store on my phone!..........................................Brandy!

I think you missed the "patent pending".

Open-Interface-Bob

I found this article this morning in the NYT. It provides a pretty accurate description of Smart Bluetooth, or Bluetooth 4. In time, it looks like it can control any and everything on a layout.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10...emc=edit_th_20141030

Hope the link works.

George (G3)

Thanks George, interesting article!

What is not covered is that Bluetooth 4.x (with the right software) can be used to relay small blocks of information between other Bluetooth 4.x devices.  Which means that with the right implementation Bluetooth 4.x could also be used on large club layouts.

Open-Interface-Bob

Patentable (your opinion)?

 “Wireless Model Railroad Control System”

BlueRail patent application is here: http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacg...;s1=20140360399.PGNR.

You may have to paste the address in: xxxhttp://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=20140360399.PGNRxxx

I PDF with drawings here : http://docs.google.com/viewer?...fs/US20140360399.pdf.

Bob

Hi RT Coker,

     That is a good question for a patent attorney.   I would imagine that BlueRail Trains did their homework.  I also imagine it all depends who gets to the patent office first.  Is it just another form of radio control?   Perhaps it is the app that is at the heart of it all.  Does software need a copyright not a patent?  All good questions and I don't have any answers.

Take care, Joe.

I like this because this appears, like LC+, to be something you can use with trains while running others on the same layout loops under conventional control.  I do not have an iPad or [whatever] - a device to bring - but I imagine I can buy of find one.  I could run WBB trains with that, LC+ with their remotes, and conventional on the same loop.

Are we watching Bachman quietly show up Lionel and MTH?  Also are we too into their marketing to recognize what is happening?

Art

YES  and YES 

I doubt that will be necessary.  I'm sure it will be like LC+.  My seven LC+ locos all run in LC+ mode well at as little as 7 volts.  They do not have their maximum top speed at low voltages, and they do not smoke well until track voltage fed to them is about 12 of higher.  I normally run two LC+ steamers on the same loop with something like an MTH BR-44 or Legacy Northern running in conventional at around 11 - 12 volts, and the LC+ locos smoke well, run slowly or faster than I want, and pull 10 - 20 scale cars fine.  And once set to a speed and chugging away, they do not respond if I change the voltage slightly to adjust the speed of the loco running in conventional.  

I see no reason why WBB's Bluetooth control won't be the same: you can run it at up to 18V, or 16V, or much lower, down to what the loco needs to run its boards at all, which seems to be around seven to seven and one half volts based on the WBB locos I have.  

One question I have is with the Williams unit, if bluetooth 4 can handle up to 7 devices, does that mean you would mate the 7 engines to the controller on the ipad/whatever as bluetooth devices, and only those 7 engines would work? Or does this mean up to 7 engines at a time? In theory, if Williams did this right, each engine would have a unique address, so when you start the app up, it would look for any addresses, and automatically map them (or allow you to do it like 'engine 1 is mapped to address xyx123 which is my hudson, engine 2 is xyz345 which is my ge 44 tonner, which happens to be the ones on the track and running), or is it more like DCS and TMCC where you add an engine to the roster, and map it, and it is not dynamic. If dynamic, that would be great, because how many engines will you run at once on your layout. If for a particular session I pull out an F3, a hudson, and a berkshire, if at power up I can quickly have the unit pick them up, and assign an id to them I can recognize, that would be cool, because it would also mean that I could have a roster of engines (let's say 20), and the 7 device limitation would be no big deal. If I had to do a permanent mapping for 7 of the engines, then if I wanted to run some other engine besides the 7 programmed, it would be a pain in the tail, but if it works dynamically with what is powered up in the network, that is cool (in theory, there is no reason why they couldn't do this, bluetooth pairing is basically what this is). 

The downside (besides the obvious, that it won't work with existing engines), is that Williams control functions and sound may not be enough for some, Both DCS and TMCC/Legacy are feature rich (for me, I probably would be happier with a smaller one). I don't think this is a game changer per se, I think it will attract people who for whatever reasons don't like DCS/Legacy technology, but not sure it will change things that much, might be more like they get those not using DCS/Legacy, not taking from those bases. 

Art

I think what we are seeing is a huge jump in train control technology that if successful will make other control system obsolete.I also believe that this is something that neither MTH or Lionel will be able to stop using the courts. If Blue rail trains with the blessing of Bachman enters the upgrade market this will definitely be a game changer that will benifit the hobby and the users will be the winners.

Doug

That is very interesting, Doug.  To use Lionel's new technology costs a small fortune.  You have to buy sensor tracks and all sorts of items to make it all work.  MTH's shouldn't be as bad, but you have to have wi-fi modules and wait for apps to be designed. 

This should be very interesting to watch it play out.

Art

Art

Think of this from this prospective. If Blue rail integrates this with DCC which is the standard for HO and 2RS. That will mean that every PS3 engine has the potential to be operated by this system since they are DCC capable.  That would leave lionel on the sidelines.

Doug

As a conventional operator, this appears to be the way to go.....however, I have 30+ engines to upgrade.  How much per?  That is the critical path question.

I don't understand how this would work. To retrofit Bluetooth control into a non-Williams non-Bluetooth-equipped engine, the engine would require a receiver, and then how would the receiver need to be wired into the engine electronics in order to separately control each of the multiple functions, i.e., direction, speed, horn, bell, lighting, electrocouplers, etc.?

Also, Legacy and MTH DCS have the capability for many options and functions besides the basics on the Bachmann app - how would those be integrated, or could all those multiple functions be integrated into Bluetooth at all?

The big question is the *** patent ***. 

Are you going to be happy to only be able to buy this kind of product for one company (and other companies that they may let license this technology)?  In other words BlueRail controls the standard(s) and everybody dances to their tune for better or worse (as in Microsoft).

Bob

Blue tooth sounds very innovative ! However that said I wish Lionel, MTH and all other manufactures would adopt less inexpensive DCC technology. Instead of their own proprietary technology that changes every several years.. DCC decoders from 15 years ago are nearly the same as one you would buy today. DCC decoders  are cheap $20 bucks for a plug and play decoder in HO scale or O scale no sound. Same standards.

Just to clarify, SensorTrack is an optional part of the Layout Control System. It is not a required component.

I doubt it.  Will the Bachmann system have a good steady cruise and sound equal to PS3, much less Legacy? I think there will still be a gap, but maybe not a gap fully justifiable given the price.

Bachmann spoke at the OGR meeting today about their new products and did not mention Bluetooth control.

Bill

 The beginnings of On30 are Christmas Village trains. Bachmann dominates that market. They are new comers to O in buying Williams, and are already applying a scale approach vs being true to the low cost semi scale nature of the name they bought.

 They have a few very nice engines, and while not tin, more than suitable for a holiday layout. In fact, few trains aren't suitable for a holiday layout, unless a greeting card look is more important than a little fun. 

If using your smart phone to run your layout, What happens when you receive a phone call? Normally Music streaming is interrupted. Will train control be interrupted?

May have to put the phone in airplane mode.  But I am not sure if the Bluetooth signal is turned off when a call comes in or if the sound is just muted?

Dave, one can always use  a small iPad or tablet they have bigger screens and no phone on them.