"Behold the Infinity Train. It's simple, yet brilliant." -- Beware when someone uses the word "Simple"

I haven't read the article but it appears to me that they are violating the basic laws of physics.  There are always going to be energy losses somewhere in the system that will need to be replaced from an external source.  NH Joe

The article mentions using regenerative braking on the "downhill loaded sections" of the route.  It sounds like the train is loaded on the downhill run, but returns uphill empty.

So in theory no violation of thermodynamics, since the iron ore moves permanently downhill.  Whether that will really be enough to overcome losses from friction and recharging is an interesting question.

This is similar to what a mine in Switzerland does with its large dump trucks. They carry the load down a mountain and charge up then return up the hill empty.

https://hackaday.com/2019/08/2...energy-than-it-uses/

I have had a chance to read the article.  I don't think that they will be able to run the train perpetually using batteries and regenerative braking.  The laws of physics won't allow it.   There will always be energy losses somewhere in the electrical and mechanical systems.  

The train will be operating the Australian outback.  The outback is a giant desert with plenty of sun.  I was there a few years ago.  The temperature was over 110 degrees F every day.

Solar panels could be installed line side at the mine that could recharge batteries as needed.  Maybe the engines could have solar panels or they could pull a solar panel car.  This could make the train emission free.  I hope that they are successful   NH Joe

Just like New Haven Joe said, the Australian "out-back" is just desert.....miles and miles of it!!! And the area where this "Infinity Train" will operate is in Western Australia, and in the mining area of the Kimberley's (iron ore). There ain't too many mountain ranges out there to get that "down-hill" run to charge the batteries.

And as we all know, railroads like to lay tracks as flat as possible (along river banks etc) to negate having to go up steep hills, and the "out-back" in Western Australia sure doesn't have that many "steep" grades, just miles and miles of flat, uninhabited sandy desert. That's why nobody lives in the majority of Western Australia....just in the coastal towns like Perth (capital city of W.A.) Freemantle, Port Headland etc. Check your Google maps.

From one Australian who lives on the "populated" East Coast of Australia, where the majority of Australians live, and trains are the same (electric and diesel) as the rest of the world!!

Peter.....(Buco Australia)

@Rich Melvin posted:

They have invented a 21st Century Perpetual Motion Machine? Sure they have. 

All jokes aside, they seem to ignore wind resistance and internal losses within the electric system itself (among other things, but these are the big two).

Regenerative braking is a valid idea to start implementing in new road diesels to improve efficiency, but this "infinity" train violates the principles of thermodynamics.

@Rich Melvin posted:

This report violates one other principle - TRUTH.

Journalism is dead. Has been for many, many years.

You are completely ignoring the part of the article that I pointed above.  The theory is that the mass of the load, which moves downhill only, is sufficient to generate enough power to move the empty train uphill. Whether that's really practical I don't know, but it is not a perpetual motion machine.

Reading is dead, and has been for many years.  Why read when you already know that anything 'green' must be a fraud?

Here's the same principle applied to an electric truck that transports mined rock downhill.

@Rich Melvin posted:

More climate change, net zero nonsense, combined with a huge load of snake oil.

They have invented a 21st Century Perpetual Motion Machine? Sure they have. 

What Professor Chaos said.  If you have a voluminous dump at the bottom of the hill for the snake oil and if the potential energy of the snake oil at the top of the hill exceeds the energy losses (breaking, friction, wind resistance, etc.) for the trucks in transit for the round trip, this will work all day long.  It is just a one way trip for the snake oil.

The only example I have ever witnessed of perpetual motion is a spousal mandible.

@Professor Chaos posted:

Reading is dead, and has been for many years.  Why read when you already know that anything 'green' must be a fraud?

I think less about being a fraud and being more about the HYPE.

I don't think it's so much about the green technology itself, some will work better than others and be sustainable, while others will eventually fail in the long term.  Segway is a good example.

Also, some of these technologies are solutions for a narrow range of operating conditions.  For example, "Infinity Train" won't work for Chicago commuter operations.

I was once in the computer mainframe business and we snickered at the thought PC's would replace mainframes.

Rusty