block signals .... further questions

Pelago,

Really don't know about prototypical operation, but I believe your 5 switch junction/crossover only requires four block signals.  Two would be placed at the south end of the crossover to protect and warn "north" bound traffic.  Two would be required at the north end of the junction/crossover, as well, for the same reasons.  However, the one north of the crossover on the left side also has to be north of the junction switch.  Southbound traffic at that point would get a proceed with caution signal if the junction switch is set for the curve or if the subsequent crossover switches are set to change path.  If all switches (junction and crossover) are set for the straight path, the block signal would show a clear board (proceed normally).

Personally, can't see any reason for ten block signals.

Chuck

With 3 rail there is no need to use IR detectors IMO. Everything can be done with relays and timers using the outside insulated rail method,including collision avoidance. IR detectors use relays anyway,they just detect differently. Usually, most anything done with IR detectors can be done with relays and the insulated rail,more reliably and cheaper. 

Layouts are rarely prototypical,simply not enough room. You can give the illusion of it working like a real railroad. With proper circuit design you can usually make it do what you want. How many block signals you use is up to you. 

Dale H

  For a non railroader you did a great job, 4 signals and description is right on....

You can check out the Custom Signals website for most track configurations and where the signals would go. the link to the crossover you are using is http://www.customsignals.com/documents/c01layout.pdf

Custom signals also has the boards to make everything work fairly easily.

Good Luck: Joe K

devils advocate time

lets assume that there is a train running counter clockwise on inner loop (right of 4way)

lets assume that there is a train on the outside large loop  clockwise

lets assume that the four way is set for thru for both sides

however many block signals that could be, they all would be green??

now throw a switch and have the inner loop connect to outer loop

wouldn't the control of the block signal  be totally dependent on switch?

Correct. That is why the link provided above shows double dead signals. When the turnout is "thrown", then the top head would display red, and the lower head would display green or yellow for the "diverging route".

Hmm  guess i need to get the mousers catalog out for  momentary voltage controlled relays in the sub class

a normal relay will not work, once the momentary switch is released the block signal relay would go back to all pins normally open would return to that state

not sure if this would help I am doing a fully protypical b&O signal system I had to go with a computer control system normally design for ho I had to read the rule book for the b&o and I had to reach out to some ho model railroad clubs they have been doing this sort of thing so if you get stuck like me I had to look outside the box

I use these,24 volt DC twin coiled latch relays. They also come in 12 volt versions

LINK

Dale H

what switches are you running?  i possibly could use the 18v acc line that run the switches

ross come with red/green led, and they are controlled by 18vac, have not studied them but should not be difficult

I use Ross with DZ1000 machines. I throw them with relay contacts. They can take continuous voltage because they have a limit switch which cuts power to the coil when thrown. . I also have some Atlas. i throw them with capacitor discharge. Power for more than a second will burn out the coils. Here is one example where I use relays to throw Ross switches. The DZ1000 need 14 VAC or there about.

LINK

Dale H