Buyers at Train Shows

PLCProf posted:

Allan Martinez posted:

Who in there right mind would go to a train show with more than  $100.00 in cash? I say if you're going after big ticket items the buyer should have the option too pay with a card or at least with a check as well as cash. My question is this: Should a person be allowed to go to a train show to buy whatever he is looking for when all of his purchases are with plastic only? Please let me know what you think. 

As stated above, ATMs are everywhere, give the seller a $75 deposit and run out for more cash if you must. I have never had a seller refuse that! Then too, at small shows, most sellers are local, give him a deposit and meet up at McDonald's next week to swap lies, settle up and get the merchandise.

ATMs charge fees...something approaching $3-5 per transaction is not uncommon - that's about the same as the PayPal fee on a 200 dollar transaction...either way - you pay.

Roving Sign posted:

PLCProf posted:

Allan Martinez posted:

Who in there right mind would go to a train show with more than  $100.00 in cash? I say if you're going after big ticket items the buyer should have the option too pay with a card or at least with a check as well as cash. My question is this: Should a person be allowed to go to a train show to buy whatever he is looking for when all of his purchases are with plastic only? Please let me know what you think. 

As stated above, ATMs are everywhere, give the seller a $75 deposit and run out for more cash if you must. I have never had a seller refuse that! Then too, at small shows, most sellers are local, give him a deposit and meet up at McDonald's next week to swap lies, settle up and get the merchandise.

ATMs charge fees...something approaching $3-5 per transaction is not uncommon - that's about the same as the PayPal fee on a 200 dollar transaction...either way - you pay.

My bank refunds ATM fees so that isn't a problem...

Bossman284 posted:

Roving Sign posted:

PLCProf posted:

Allan Martinez posted:

Who in there right mind would go to a train show with more than  $100.00 in cash? I say if you're going after big ticket items the buyer should have the option too pay with a card or at least with a check as well as cash. My question is this: Should a person be allowed to go to a train show to buy whatever he is looking for when all of his purchases are with plastic only? Please let me know what you think. 

As stated above, ATMs are everywhere, give the seller a $75 deposit and run out for more cash if you must. I have never had a seller refuse that! Then too, at small shows, most sellers are local, give him a deposit and meet up at McDonald's next week to swap lies, settle up and get the merchandise.

ATMs charge fees...something approaching $3-5 per transaction is not uncommon - that's about the same as the PayPal fee on a 200 dollar transaction...either way - you pay.

My bank refunds ATM fees so that isn't a problem...

That's great - but many don't - and the ATMs they set up at these kind of events surely do (not sure they have these at York...?)

I seldom take $100 or more to a train show.

Also don't take any credit cards either. LOL

If I don't have enough cash for something I do without.

I've taken as little as $40 to a show, and still manage to find plenty to bring home while I'm on the floor going thru the treasure boxes.

Roving Sign posted:

PLCProf posted:

Allan Martinez posted:

Who in there right mind would go to a train show with more than  $100.00 in cash? I say if you're going after big ticket items the buyer should have the option too pay with a card or at least with a check as well as cash. My question is this: Should a person be allowed to go to a train show to buy whatever he is looking for when all of his purchases are with plastic only? Please let me know what you think. 

As stated above, ATMs are everywhere, give the seller a $75 deposit and run out for more cash if you must. I have never had a seller refuse that! Then too, at small shows, most sellers are local, give him a deposit and meet up at McDonald's next week to swap lies, settle up and get the merchandise.

ATMs charge fees...something approaching $3-5 per transaction is not uncommon - that's about the same as the PayPal fee on a 200 dollar transaction...either way - you pay.

So what? I'll make it up by not buying the $2 coffee and $1 donut. 

I don't understand this religious obsession with fees and charges! If you want to live an all-cash lifestyle, go ahead! I choose to do otherwise, fees and all!

Cash is fast, cash is the best way to get someone to come down in price. Just make sure you got that cash before you open your mouth.

PLCProf posted:

Roving Sign posted:

PLCProf posted:

Allan Martinez posted:

Who in there right mind would go to a train show with more than  $100.00 in cash? I say if you're going after big ticket items the buyer should have the option too pay with a card or at least with a check as well as cash. My question is this: Should a person be allowed to go to a train show to buy whatever he is looking for when all of his purchases are with plastic only? Please let me know what you think. 

As stated above, ATMs are everywhere, give the seller a $75 deposit and run out for more cash if you must. I have never had a seller refuse that! Then too, at small shows, most sellers are local, give him a deposit and meet up at McDonald's next week to swap lies, settle up and get the merchandise.

ATMs charge fees...something approaching $3-5 per transaction is not uncommon - that's about the same as the PayPal fee on a 200 dollar transaction...either way - you pay.

So what? I'll make it up by not buying the $2 coffee and $1 donut. 

I don't understand this religious obsession with fees and charges! If you want to live an all-cash lifestyle, go ahead! I choose to do otherwise!

Assuming you're on the buying side - from a sellers view - its just good business. I assume there are vendors there that are running a business and have a bottom line to meet. If a vendor grosses 5000 - 100 is bucks given away on fees...not insignificant - pays for a night at the hotel.

Who in there right mind would go to a train show with more than  $100.00 in cash?

I think you need to ad an extra zero [0] after the one [1]. IT's 2016 and $100.00 is not what it used to be. Even at a themed restaurant like Outback, Texas Road House,  Applebees, The Cheesecake Factory, etc. a dinner for a family of 4 is over $100.00 plus tip!!!! Oh butthey accept Credit cards

I usually take a bit more than I want to spend, not over $500. I have carried a chunk of cash to buy a car etc but I also have a carry permit. York was a "craphole city" years ago when I went to my first TCA show. Still is but most cities are.  Cash rules !!

Has there ever been a robbery at the Eastern Division's York train show? 
The fairgrounds are somewhat isolated from the community, and there is lots of security.
Many folks regularly carry thousands of dollars in cash there.

I do not know anyone who goes with under 100 in his pocket.   I have been to a few train shows in my time.

What an interesting thread!  The original poster has not once responded back; wonder if he was just trolling?

That was my thought also.  

I go to small & large shows with cash & ONE check folded in half in my wallet. Of course I bring a credit card, but try to never use them at a show.  I'll bargain with dealers at a show if I'm using CASH.  The seller can pocket the cash and doesn't have to chase checks or pay the Credit card service fee.  Also, if a dealer wants to sell or not, it's his price and prerogative. 

PS A $50 bill today is  like what a $20 bill use to be!

It is fun to go through the "treasure boxes " under the tables.   Also fun after the aisles thin out a little to see something  you like and  pull out cold cash.  The look in the seller's eyes tells it all.

C W Burfle posted:

Has there ever been a robbery at the Eastern Division's York train show? 
The fairgrounds are somewhat isolated from the community, and there is lots of security.
Many folks regularly carry thousands of dollars in cash there.

There has - It was in the mid 1980s I think...I have a letter from the TCA that details the event.

EDIT: 1987 - must have happened during the fall meet.

Basically what happened was - a booth was being watched by a kid. Somebody bought something and left 22 bucks with the kid - and walked off with a Marx Mickey Mouse Train (priced 850.00)  and a Marx Rabbit train (priced 1350.00)

Roving Sign posted:

C W Burfle posted:

Has there ever been a robbery at the Eastern Division's York train show? 
The fairgrounds are somewhat isolated from the community, and there is lots of security.
Many folks regularly carry thousands of dollars in cash there.

There has - It was in the mid 1980s I think...I have a letter from the TCA that details the event.]

Basically somebody walked off with some stuff...I try to dig up the letter.

I wouldn't consider that a violent crime, however despicable....and that was (roughly) 30 years ago....and ONE event.

I like to take cash as it limits my insanity when it comes to buying.

Also when I sell at train shows I don't like it when somebody has a $100.00 bill. Would be nice to have $20.00 bills, that way you can break a $20.00 much easier.

Lee Fritz

Berkshire President posted:

Roving Sign posted:

C W Burfle posted:

Has there ever been a robbery at the Eastern Division's York train show? 
The fairgrounds are somewhat isolated from the community, and there is lots of security.
Many folks regularly carry thousands of dollars in cash there.

There has - It was in the mid 1980s I think...I have a letter from the TCA that details the event.]

Basically somebody walked off with some stuff...I try to dig up the letter.

I wouldn't consider that a violent crime, however despicable....and that was (roughly) 30 years ago....and ONE event.

I wouldn't assume that was the only incident...I just happened to have some TCA correspondence regarding this event...that's not to say it hasn't happened before or since.

C W Burfle posted:

When I have a table, unless I know you, its cash only.
I've lost very few sales, most folks do bring cash.

Speaking generally, not about YOU C W, I find that buying more expensive items with a credit card or check gives me a level of protection against defective or broken products. Trust goes both ways. There is a guy in our area who sales discounted brand name mattresses and futons who wants you to pay in cash and trust that he will deliver said quality merchandise. But, he will not accept checks or credit cards. In other words, he is saying essentially - "trust me even though I don' trust you." For a smaller, under $100 purchase (set your own limit) I supposed this would not apply. But I would hate to fork over, say $500, for a used Big Boy and take it home to discover that it was a lemon.

Let me toss out a hypothetical.  You are looking for locomotive XX-YYYY or ZZZZZ and having done your home work you know very well the average Internet and print price over the last ninety days is $600.  Your policy is not to take more than $100 in cash as you'll cover anything over that with your credit card.   Strolling the aisles you find your locomotive in a factory sealed box for $300.  Seller says cash only.  You lose.  You have wasted several hours, put miles on your car, and probably will remember the non-sale for at least a few months but will definitely remember it when you pay $500 for your locomotive in a store or via the Internet when you use you charge card.   As a lot of guys and gals have mentioned, cash is king.

Put yourself on the seller's side of the table.  Two buyers in front of him/her looking at the same item.  One has a C-note in his hand and one is asking if the seller will take charge cards(with the associated 2.5-3% cost). Let's get real, which one will leave the show with the item?   

On the other hand, I know a seller in NW Indiana who has lost Internet sales because he only accepts US Postal Money Orders.  I think some where in the LCCA guidelines is something encouraging its members to accept personal checks from fellow members.

 John in Lansing, ILL

As a buyer, I frankly have pretty much anything I need, model-wise. I'm not a model train collector, and only buy stuff to use on the layout. Still, I'm always looking for RR antiques and stuff, as well as books. The last train show I went to was last weekend, and I only spent $30 (but got a good bunch of stuff for my money). I don't recall ever going to a model train show with much more than a hundred clams. I think my wife would shoot me if I spent much more than that.

As a seller at some small shows in the past (and at a few gun shows over the years), I couldn't count the number of people I didn't know who wanted to pay with a check. And many of those got crazy offended when I told them I don't accept checks. They usually respond with the following (with my usual responses to each in yellow highlight)

"Are you saying I can't be trusted?" I'm saying I don't know you, so therefore, I have no idea if that check is no good. You can draw your own conclusions from that.

"I'm good for it, trust me." Yeah, no offense, but I don't know you from Adam, and you must be aware that there are people out there who love to bilk people with bad checks. Sorry, but I can't risk it as my wife would kill me if I got a bounced check back.

The funniest one I've heard more than once is, "Don't you know who I am?" Nope, no clue, do you know whoI am?

p51 posted:

The funniest one I've heard more than once is, "Don't you know who I am?" Nope, no clue, do you know whoI am?

I was at an airline counter when a "well known" sports commentator was trying to get an upgrade to first class.  He pulled the "don't you know who I am" card.  The agent calmly got on the PA and made the announcement, "Ladies and gentlemen does anyone know who this man is as he seems to forgotten who he is."  He walked away in a huff, and never did get in first class.  I was on his flight...sitting in first class.

p51 posted:

As a buyer, I frankly have pretty much anything I need, model-wise. I'm not a model train collector, and only buy stuff to use on the layout. Still, I'm always looking for RR antiques and stuff, as well as books. The last train show I went to was last weekend, and I only spent $30 (but got a good bunch of stuff for my money). I don't recall ever going to a model train show with much more than a hundred clams. I think my wife would shoot me if I spent much more than that.

As a seller at some small shows in the past (and at a few gun shows over the years), I couldn't count the number of people I didn't know who wanted to pay with a check. And many of those got crazy offended when I told them I don't accept checks. They usually respond with the following (with my usual responses to each in yellow highlight)

"Are you saying I can't be trusted?" I'm saying I don't know you, so therefore, I have no idea if that check is no good. You can draw your own conclusions from that.

"I'm good for it, trust me." Yeah, no offense, but I don't know you from Adam, and you must be aware that there are people out there who love to bilk people with bad checks. Sorry, but I can't risk it as my wife would kill me if I got a bounced check back.

The funniest one I've heard more than once is, "Don't you know who I am?" Nope, no clue, do you know whoI am?

Not train related, but I was in a similar situation some time ago in a different hobby. Customer wanted to pay by check, and I wanted to sell the item. We agreed that I would keep the item until the check cleared, and we would split the shipping charges. So, he paid $515 instead of $500, I accepted $485 instead of $500, and we were both happy. And the shipping company collected $30. 

We both lived happily ever after.

It's all about managing risk. 

PLCProf posted:

Not train related, but I was in a similar situation some time ago in a different hobby. Customer wanted to pay by check, and I wanted to sell the item. We agreed that I would keep the item until the check cleared, and we would split the shipping charges. So, he paid $515 instead of $500, I accepted $485 instead of $500, and we were both happy. And the shipping company collected $30. 

It's all about managing risk. 

Fair enough, but I've never been in a position where that was worth the time and effort.

How about buyers who tell you to 'hold' something for them but never come back to buy it? Had a guy at a gun show pull that, another seller, and later with a smile on his face, made no apologies for deciding not to buy it at the end of the show. NEVER AGAIN, I said to myself. People pull this at gun shows and military collectible shows often. I tell them, "If you want it, you need to buy it now, or you can pay a (hefty) non-refundable deposit. the only guy who ever took me up on it came back 10 minutes later after a trip to the local ATM with the rest of the money. Everyone else thought it was extortion or something...

p51 posted:

PLCProf posted:

Not train related, but I was in a similar situation some time ago in a different hobby. Customer wanted to pay by check, and I wanted to sell the item. We agreed that I would keep the item until the check cleared, and we would split the shipping charges. So, he paid $515 instead of $500, I accepted $485 instead of $500, and we were both happy. And the shipping company collected $30. 

It's all about managing risk. 

Fair enough, but I've never been in a position where that was worth the time and effort.

How about buyers who tell you to 'hold' something for them but never come back to buy it? Had a guy at a gun show pull that, another seller, and later with a smile on his face, made no apologies for deciding not to buy it at the end of the show. NEVER AGAIN, I said to myself. People pull this at gun shows and military collectible shows often. I tell them, "If you want it, you need to buy it now, or you can pay a (hefty) non-refundable deposit. the only guy who ever took me up on it came back 10 minutes later after a trip to the local ATM with the rest of the money. Everyone else thought it was extortion or something...

Agreed. I don't hold anything, unless its for someone I know personally. If they need to run out and get more cash I usually get a deposit and give them an hour to do it.

You can't plan everything to perfection. Stuff will go wrong. Ya gotta expect losses.

I have been  "buyer" for many years and sold a few  and many different items but there are a few basic rules:  Cash or postal MO if by mail.  "Money talks, BS walks".  I willingly give a deposit on a "will hold" item.  If I think you are giving me a fast shuffle I bail out.  For me it is an enjoyable hobby, let's keep it that way.  I had 200 "buys" on eBay with no negative feedback when I quit. I actually enjoy the "buy and sell" part of the forum more.  The forum, my old antique store buddy and train shows are it.

My experience is that negotiation is easier when cash is on the table. Also vendors taking credit cards often charge sales tax which ups the price by 6% (more in high tax areas like LI, NY).

Cash is also a built in budget. When it's gone I'm done with actual shopping!  Window shopping often continues!

PLCProf posted:

Agreed. I don't hold anything, unless its for someone I know personally. If they need to run out and get more cash I usually get a deposit and give them an hour to do it.

Yep, I was looking at a (non-RR) item at a small show and didn't have the cash. Sure I'll hold it, the seller said, for the $40 I had on me at the time. I gleefully handed him the coin, hauled to the nearest ATM and was back in 10 minutes with the rest. He took the balance and I got something cool. The seller said that three people had come by trying to buy it while I was gone (something he didn't need to lie about as he had the money already, so I'm willing to accept really happened) and he turned them all down, pending me never coming back.

That's why I offer this as an alternative but only one person has ever accepted those terms. If you really want something like I did that day, you do what you gotta do. The rest is merely tire-kicking.

WOW, I didn't know anyone went to York with less than $1,000. in cash.

Never bought anything at a train show that I didn't pay cash for. When I went to York, back in the 70's 80's and 90's as soon as I arrived in York I would fill the car with gas. I would spend every dollar I had on Friday and Saturday saving just enough for turnpike fee and some food. 

Speaking generally, not about YOU C W, I find that buying more expensive items with a credit card or check gives me a level of protection against defective or broken products.

As I wrote earlier, that is one reason I won't take a check, credit card or PayPal. All sales are AS IS.
Buyers are not only welcome, but are encouraged to take my powered items to the show test track and try them out. 

Now that the subject has been brought up, how does a credit card company protect a buyer of a used item if there is a sign on the table, "Where is, as is".  If they automatically withdraw funds from the seller's account this is another reason for the seller not to accept plastic.   In reality, train shows/swap meets dealing in used items are nothing more than glorified yard sales.   John in Lansing, ILL

C W Burfle posted:

Speaking generally, not about YOU C W, I find that buying more expensive items with a credit card or check gives me a level of protection against defective or broken products.

As I wrote earlier, that is one reason I won't take a check, credit card or PayPal. All sales are AS IS.
Buyers are not only welcome, but are encouraged to take my powered items to the show test track and try them out. 

I'd say that's the best argument for cash only transactions.

You can probably get around that on PayPal by using the "Send Money To Friends and Family" function - that's just a fund transfer - not a "purchase" - and there is no fee. But - both the seller and buyer have to have PayPal accounts.

rattler21 posted:

Now that the subject has been brought up, how does a credit card company protect a buyer of a used item if there is a sign on the table, "Where is, as is".  If they automatically withdraw funds from the seller's account this is another reason for the seller not to accept plastic.   In reality, train shows/swap meets dealing in used items are nothing more than glorified yard sales.   John in Lansing, ILL

My thoughts exactly - the buyer shouldn't be able to change the terms post-purchase.

I made the assumption when I read the original post that the OP was not talking about a train show involving O gauge trains or York, PA. 

This is a perfect example of supply and demand.  As a seller, if your item is aggressively priced and in demand, there will be plenty of buyers for it.  If you only want cash then you can choose whom to sell the item to.  If the item is something that a buyer wants to buy, he should present the most agreeable, smoothest transaction (aka cash) to insure that he has no obstacles in buying the item.  If the seller raises the price then he may need to be more flexible in payment options in order to attract a buyer.  If as a buyer, you only take credit cards to a train show, then you will limit your opportunities to purchase.   Keep in mind, the train show and sellers are not being operated to your personal specifications.

I can pay with cash faster than you can with a credit card, primarily cause the seller's eyes are already glazing over, looking at my cash.   As a seller I never take credit cards and rarely take checks.  I have taken checks in the past, but only on items I was having a hard time selling or had no other inquiries on.  And I had to have a good feeling about the person.  During negotiations with some people my original price just gets higher every time they speak, cause I no longer want to sell anything to them.

The rule of thumb for your first trip to York: calculate the absolute, most insane amount of money you will spend; double that number and take it in cash.  Take the cash in various denominations so you can quickly pay very close to the exact amount and quickly move on to your next purchase.  You can always re-deposit the leftover money when you get home.    Also take every credit card you have.

"I do not know anyone who goes with under 100 in his pocket."

Marty, the question is whether you know anyone (other than a seller) who comes home with more that $100 in his pocket.

Heck, I walked into the huge show at Timonium, MD several years ago and I think I spent maybe $25 total, including the entrance fee.

Selling at the local model train shows, I've always bought less than I sold, by a very wide margin.

The issue here is that many of you are collectors.

People looking to equip a layout with specific stuff won't think with the same mindset. Me, I won't buy something unless I have a use for it, and I have almost everything I need for my layout now. I don't have any display cases and I have all the rolling stock I need (in fact, more than enough as I have about 15 cars that haven't come out of the boxes-post detailing/weathering-since I started running trains), so buying excess rolling stock doesn't make any sense as there's no secondary market for O scale narrow gauge stuff where one can make money off the sales...

So I'd think a collector is going to question the sanity of someone walking into any train show with less than four digits. But someone like me wouldn't dream of taking that much money in there.

I do not think anyone walks around York with any money less than 4 figures.