Buying & Selling - trying something new

No business has any legal obligation to accept your money.

The payment owed option is only free if you have money in your account to cover it or you have a bank account linked to Paypal. If not the 3% falls on the sender. There is no free lunch so to speak.

Ron

Yep, sure am! 

 

Same applies to the overall quality of train items I have purchased--many hundreds of items in various scales.  In more than 35 years back in the hobby, I don't even need one hand to count the number of significant problems I've had with products I've bought.  I also have not had problems with the various shipping services such as UPS and FedEx.

 

Perhaps I'm just a bit more diligent/careful than some here when it comes to buying and selling.

I have over 500 buy/sells on ebay and never a problem, most use paypal,  easy and safe IMO. BTW the banks in my area will not take wrapped coins, too much fraud I guess. They will count it but for a fee. Remember when most of your banking was free!!!! Not anymore.

That is correct. Being in the retail grocery business for 40+ years has taught us that. We don't take $50, $100 bills or wrapped coins and we don't take loose change over $10.00. Too many phony bills and loose coins take up too much time. We do have a coin star machine if somebody brings in loose change. BTW we fill that machine about every 3 days. It has 2 containers that are 800 lbs each when full. Allot of money.

100% correct.  Since having money in my bank account is normally not an issue, I operate fee-free for stuff like forum purchases.

Not quite.  The intent of the legal tender act is to make U.S. coins and currency valid for payment of debt (public and private as noted on our paper money).  If I owe you $50 and you refuse to take a valid $50 bill, then you can't keep coming after me to force me to pay some other way.  According to legend (which in this case may be true)  in the 70's or 80's an irate taxpayer rented a large dump truck and filled it with the exact number of pennies required to pay a tax bill - over $30,000 worth.  The government was compelled to accept the payment and the law was modified so that pennies are now legal tender in amounts $50 and under.  So if you are so inclined, you could still make a "hefty"   statement paying an obnoxious creditor.

 

When it comes to commerce, it is a somewhat different story.  If I come to your store and try to buy a candy bar with a $100 bill you are certainly within your rights to refuse to sell it to me.  It can get substantially more complicated if the candy bar has been eaten...

I'm well aware on how the monetary system works, you were stating you thought someone couldn't refuse your "legal tender" when I'm fact they can.

I'm not trying to be rude here and I'm not trying to start a fight but when we go to the grocery store we often spend over $200.  If we were paying in cash you would obviously prefer we have a bunch of $20's.  But which would be better and more convenient - 2 $100s, 1 $50 and 3 $1s or 253 dollar bills?  I understand problems with counterfeit money but some of these policies either aren't thought out all that well or really don't take into account the preferences of their customers.

 

I'm not saying I would do this but how would you handle a customer that walks out of the store with $100 worth of goods (or less) after laying a $100 on the counter?  You'd have a hard time making a shoplifting charge stick.  It could generate some really bad PR too depending on the circumstances.

OK.  So if I owe you money you are saying you can require me to pay in a method other than cash?  How so?

I never said that, but your original post says that a bank which is a business has to accept your rolled coins (which are legal tender your absolutely right) the thing is if you don't owe someone or a business money they have the right to refuse you service as well as any form of payment you attempt to pay with.

I think we agree.

If they refuse to pay and try to leave with the product despite our policy of not taking a $100 bill they will be arrested and charged with retail theft. The bill that they left will be returned to them. You cannot make exceptions. They know the rules, it is posted at customer service and every check out. We have security at every store to enforce these rules, their jobs depend on it.  

Time to put a lock on this one, I guess.  It's getting a bit weird and wandering.

Boy, I certainly am glad to live in an area where stores still accept large bills, and banks/credit unions accept rolled coins.

Where is it that they don't?

I understand your position - big bills are a problem for your business and you have a policy against them.  You might be able to exercise physical force to prevent a person from leaving with the merchandise but I think you'd have trouble making the theft (or attempted theft) charge stick.  You'd have to convince a police officer there was probable cause for an arrest (on a theft charge) and the person's defense was going to be that they "needed" the stuff and left payment.  It is NOT the same as someone who attempts to leave with the goods without paying.  

 

While I respect our difference of opinion, I'm glad it isn't like that around here.

 

Let's go run some trains.

I have been doing ebay along w Paypal upwards of 12 years and counting. I have done well over 5000 transactions including model trains and my Bridgeboss business and have basically never had a problem with payments whether it is by Paypal, personal check, bank checks, etc etc. I believe this is due the the the great character of people in our hobby.

jim r from bridgeboss.com

It seems we all hear about the folks who get ripped off in a transaction but how many never have an issue that we never hear about? I'd bet it's on the order of several thousand to one who never have a problem. Next thing you know someone will have issues with being paid cash because they heard about someone somewhere getting stuck with a counterfit bill. I still don't understand why someone has to have it right now, special circumstances excluded, I mean if you only spend say $1000 a year on trains and you buy a $300 locomotive your money isn't tied up you've spent it, now you're just waiting to receive it. It's not like if it doesn't get here tomorrow you would still have that money to use towards trains.

You're waiting for your trains man, you're not a junkie looking for his next fix and... wait a minute, never mind, BAD ANALOGY!

I've never had an issue on Ebay or on the Buy and Sell forum maybe I've just been lucky but I have had several bad deals from LHSs and at train shows so i don't think I am especially lucky but I am a little more careful concerning sight unseen deals like the forum or ebay.

 

Jerry

On the topic of the original thread, I think I can kind of understand what Sam was talking about with the feeling of "wanting it now" and having the money seeming like it is floating out there for an eternity before stuff actually arrives.  It is almost like being a kid at Christmas!  I go through that to an extent when I make a big order of something (train related or not) and I will even go so far as to watch the real-time location of the cross country truck.  But in the end it doesn't get things here any faster and it doesn't make me feel any better so I focus on other stuff.  

 

That doesn't mean I "have to have it now".  I can deal with delayed gratification when I have to.

I pay by cash for almost everything. My son on the other hand,who is 27, carrys little cash. His credit card is tied to "reward" programs. On a typical month he makes around $125.00 in cash back rewards to his account. I am amazed how many programs are out there that he finds to get cash back on. Most people just don't take the time to do this and I am one. As far as buying trains if I have to send a money order so be it. Even if it takes two weeks to arrive it is then a nice surprise. I stopped being in a hurry a long time ago for train items by mail. Could be I'm just dumb enough to forget about the purchase and when it arrives my wife calls and says there's a train in mail and im excited to get home. 

There is no really sure-fire way.  I found out years ago that checks may clear for the bank, but they never really clear for the little guy.  It was embarrassing for me to find that out, since I had just taken a course that included banking procedures and rules.  I went all the way to a vice president in Seattle.  He who cashes a bad check can find out months later when they dock his account.

 

Having said that, i have never had trouble with a train deal.  I ship when the check gets here, and when I buy I wait for the seller to ship when he is comfortable.  I guess you could say I share Allan's Successes.

AND the use of the bank's money for free for the term of the billing cycle.  Plus, if you use a REAL reward card(not air miles or Discover) like Visa Platinum Rewards, you can get paid monthly for all of this!

I simply can't be bothered with the time and effort to get a money order.  If the seller won't accept paypal or my check (and wait for it to clear prior to sending the item) I simply won't do business.  My time is just too valuable to wait in line when there are more efficient ways to conduct business. 

 

As a seller I'll take a check or money order but really prefer paypal due to ease of the transaction. 

 

--Greg

Unfortunately, life, especially in today's world, is fraught with risks.  

 

That having been said, I have never had any issues with forum member's personal checks or money orders (which I prefer) in dozens of transactions. 

 

Communication by e-mail is paramount in ALL of my sales transactions!

This thread has certainly taken on a life of its own!

 

My original post explained my major concern with having to buy a money order and mailing it to a seller.  The postman's comment when I inquired what would I do if the letter was lost disturbed me - He said that it would take 60 days before they would consider it missing. Meanwhile, my money was in limbo all that time.

 

I have no problem with sending a check and waiting for it to clear before they ship. A lost check can be replaced fairly quickly. I don't want several hundred dollars floating around out there!

 

The point I want to convey is that if the seller insists on using the mail service in lieu of PayPal that I feel that they should bear the burden of the delay or loss. I will now consider my payment to be made in the post office and expect shipment right away. If that is not acceptable to a seller, I will pass on the purchase.

 

Everyone here I have dealt with has been straight up and honest. Thank you all!