Can Weaver 4-8-4's run on O-54?

Personally , if the MFG recommends a certain diameter or radius track  stick with it, they do it for a reason

@Dave Koehler posted:

Personally , if the MFG recommends a certain diameter or radius track  stick with it, they do it for a reason

They may, then again, most O-31 rated rolling stock, including locomotives, will run on O-27 with no modification. The Atlas O Standard Cupola Caboose, rated for O-36, will run on O-27 simply by installing a #6 washer between the truck and the chassis. The WBB GE 70-ton diesel is rated for O-27, yet it requires modification of the diecast chassis to run on O-27. So while the model train brand may have it's reasons for recommended a certain minimum diameter curve or radius, I'm a fan of pushing the limits if it allows the person to run rolling stock they like on the curves they have.

@mattp.426, what about asking the local store if they'll let you or your friend test the locomotive on O-54 track?

Does your friend care about how the engine will look on 54 curves?  If he doesn't go ahead and use it.

@mattp.426 posted:

Hello, I have a friend who wants to get into O gauge, just to watch the trains run, and he has shown interest in this Weaver CN Royal Train from a local store. I've designed his (as yet unbuilt) layout with O-54 curves on the outside loop, but the box for this engine says it requires O-72. I've seen similar 3rd Rail Northerns that run on O-54. If need be, I could redesign his layout to use O-72, but then he would lose one of his 3 loops. His budget isn't much of a concern, rather his room is limited.

Since the layout , hasn't been built , and your friend wants a scale sized 4-8-4, wouldn't it be prudent to use the radius/diameter track it was designed for? Even Lionel back in the 1930's , when they came out with their 700 series 4-6-4's. (shorter than the weaver 4-8-4's) They recommended the new 072 flat rail  track!  remember this is not a 2026 or a GP20, its a scale sized and pricey engine, that is meant , design and manufactured to run on a minimum of a 072 curve, not 027 , 031 or 54.   just because you can run it on a tight curve doesn't mean you should, re design your track plan.

I agree--follow the manufacturer's recommendation.

@Dave Koehler posted:

Even Lionel back in the 1930's , when they came out with their 700 series 4-6-4's. (shorter than the weaver 4-8-4's) They recommended the new 072 flat rail  track!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the pre- and post-war 700 series are commonly run on O-31 track, yes? And do those people not enjoy running the locomotive?

But, you are right to point out that it is an expensive locomotive. I would recommend that the OP's friend consider purchasing and running this locomotive on less than O-72 only if either a trustyworthy source confirms that the tighter curve will work, or ideally, he tests it in-person himself before purchasing.

If it is confirmed that this locomotive can run on O-54, then whether to do so depends on the priorities of the OP's friend. Does the friend want a layout with more loops, possibly creating more interesting running? Or, does the friend want the Weaver CN Royal Train to be the focus of the layout and thus optimize it to that locomotive? (And/or is the friend likely to be sorely tempted by other large-curve rolling stock or is he content with limiting the range?)

If your friend is new to O gauge, perhaps a locomotive that is... less fussy, shall we say, might be a good bet?

Your friend likes this locomotive because he sees it in a store. My experience with Weaver steam locomotives is that they may take a while to adjust and tune up before they will run reliably. Might that experience dissuade him from further O gauge adventures?

I know that many folks on this forum love Weaver locomotives, but my experience has been different and I have been fixing trains since the 1960's.

Thanks everyone, he decided to have me redo the outer loop to O-72, since he was smitten with this engine. I was able to still fit in 2 smaller loops (with >4" between track centres), which he was pleased about. We also found a few other items in that lot that both him and I are interested in, and he's looking forward to the start of construction!

Good call on fitting in a dedicated O-72 loop. Limiting to O-54 would have resulted in many limitations. My only experience with a Weaver 4-8-4 was the Rio Grande M64. I bought one from a friend when I was 20 and it would not run through O-72 tubular switches to save its life; picked every one of them. It did OK on curved track but was still prone to derailing if there were any kinks or bumps. I regretably sold the model because of youthful short sightedness. It is one engine I would really like to re-acquire.

@mattp.426 posted:

Thanks everyone, he decided to have me redo the outer loop to O-72, since he was smitten with this engine. I was able to still fit in 2 smaller loops (with >4" between track centres), which he was pleased about. We also found a few other items in that lot that both him and I are interested in, and he's looking forward to the start of construction!

Looking forward to seeing  it.  what track system did you plan on using? grades?

@Dave Koehler posted:

Looking forward to seeing  it.  what track system did you plan on using? grades?

He likes Ross Switches and Gargraves Track. It's a simple flat 3 loop plan in a 8' x 8' space in a 11'x12' spare bedroom, with considerations made so that either him with his walker or his caregiver can access all parts of the layout. The outside O-72 loop is isolated from the others, and there's a pair of crossovers between the ~O-42 and ~O-34 loops, and a small 3 track yard to store trains. I would have preferred one built around the walls, but he still needs to be able to open the doors in the room.

I would agree with you, an around the room shelf layout would have been my choice , but with out knowing window or door placement I cant comment, a hinged or lift out section usually, is a good fix for door.   Several times I have used Gargrave's, and didn't lie working with it, but have heard nothing but good about Ross.   Keep the forum posted, good luck on the project

FWIW Matt, I run a Weaver I-5 Hudson on 0-48 with no issues. It was officially rated for 0-54; not a huge difference, but further proof that the catalog rating is only a recommendation rather than a hard rule.

~Chris

and apples are not oranges, and a 4-6-4 isn't a Northern

There arent any blind drivers on the Weaver Northerns   Look at the picture and look at the wheels   All wheels have flanges   Good thing you didnt try the O54 because it will not negotiate that curve

@C.Vigs posted:

FWIW Matt, I run a Weaver I-5 Hudson on 0-48 with no issues. It was officially rated for 0-54; not a huge difference, but further proof that the catalog rating is only a recommendation rather than a hard rule.

~Chris

Something to consider is that O-48 may not have been considered a “standard” curve size in Weaver’s eyes. The generally accepted curve sizes are typically O31, 42, 54, and 72. If your I5 wouldn’t do 42, then the next size would be 54. Lionel shifted their curve sizes with Fastrak but most manufacturers continued to abide by the classic standard curve sizes. The result is that many models could operate on an in between curve size.

@mattp.426 posted:

Slightly off topic, but what model and roadname is that? Absolutely gorgeous model, I want one! Anyone have a product number?