Challenger For Sale - $199,000

Well, I sure would't give him $199,000 for it! Sure seems odd that a guy would go to THAT much trouble to make MANY trips to North Platte, Nebraska, where the REAL 3977 is, and not notice that the real 3977 is actually an OIL BURNER?

THAT should be real healthy!

For $199,000, Lionel would at least have included a loop of track!

Seriously, I would never have thought live steam less than 1:1 would go for that kind of cash.

UP #3977 was actually built as a coal burner and i know Bruno prefers coal, but with a firebox that size and with that scale having to work as both engineer and fireman, i don't blame him for designing a propane burner.

the workmanship on this locomotive is in a word, incredible.

He converted it to propane. This engine was originally built as a oil burner from the description.

It sure seems odd that a guy would go to THAT much trouble to criticize an excellent engine builder when he didn't read the full description of it.

Would go remains to be seen, I have no doubt the original owner put serious money into this project as virtually everything on the model is custom built, this type of project is really blank checkbook territory.

Cool video, but wait until it ends and then watch the video with the Big Boy, WOW.

I dont care what it burn it's awesome the time and knowledge it took to build says alot.

Pretty impresive, the detail in all the custom castings needed to build it are amazing.  If I had a couple hundred thousand sitting around and an acreage I could lay a mile or so of track on I'd buy it.

Obviously some people are braindead when it comes to making something from scratch , at $199,000, a qualified machinist is worth $50.00 hr especially with the brains to make this , , one year of work at 40 hrs a week is $200.000 ,plus the materials , I am sure it took more than a year. you could not build it for that price , and I will bet the ranch on it.

Well maybe you could build it for that , under a shade tree , , but would it run.

I watched the video, it is very nice. I was surprised that a $199,000 locomotive does not have a whistle? Using propane takes away the smoke effect? The engine is beautiful, remarkable craftsmanship. When I watch a steam engine I need to hear the whistle and see heavy smoke pouring out of the stack. I wonder if you can get a whistle for it?

Bob

You go, Killian!  Hope you get those burgers!

Ron

I've run diesel (gas/electric) and steam 7.5 gauge before, but nothing like this. Magnificent craftmanship and I can't imagine the hours invested in the build. Great looking engine!

Very cool.  It's the only one, so all you need is one buyer.   Until we get "3-D printers" a bit more sophisticated, you can't reproduce it for less, that is for sure. 

 When you think of people like Walt Disney, etc., who both have money and are very into the larger, live-steam models, it is not inconcievable it sells quickly. 

I can't believe some have to post negatives about this.  It is an incredible engine and worth every penny.  I watched the whole video and really enjoyed it.  What a huge layout they have to run their trains on.  I have a two acre back yard so if I win the lotto, I'll make a bid on it.

.....

Dennis

And the 3977 never had some big dude sitting on the tender, either.

I don't thing there's too many Live Steamers out there that burn Bunker C.  The ones I've seen either burn coal or propane.

Rusty

With $199,000 the trains would get the back burner.  I'd spend it on a sports car.

Rick

This is really just the next level (or maybe a few levels! ) of the shock someone not into O Gauge trains has when they are told an engine may cost over $1000.

It's all relative.  Looks like a greatengine, and while I'm not about to dive into this world on my own, for those who are, it's probably not a terrible deal.

-Dave

I think this gentleman will be another in a long line of people who find out that the beautiful, one of a kind work of art they've built is worth a lot less than the money and time they invested in the build...

And that doesn't take a thing away from the fact of it being a beautiful locomotive.

Jeff C

I am pretty sure I saw somewhere that it cost a lot more than $200 grand to build this thing.  And as to firing, I have a Pacific that burns Jet A or kerosene.  Propane would be easier and less smelly.

it's more about the time invested.  there are plenty of generic live steam designs that have drawings and castings available off the shelf, but when you go out to build a scale model that hasn't been done before, the time you have to invest increases greatly.  the first few thousand hours may well be spent just making a drawing package.  it's not as easy as dividing everything by 8 or 12.

not quite the size, but just as true to detail as the Challenger, i know Doug Alkire put over 14,000 hours into this 1" scale B&O P7 Pacific.

Even at $5 an hour, 14,000 hours would equal a $70,000 and amount to a labor of love - not factoring in materials costs.  For $199,000 or $225,000 (the original price for the Challenger), you could have bought a real one back in the day.  I guess one could look at this like what inflation since the 1940s has done to the Challenger!

I'm 100% with you, Dennis.  This is worth every cent of the asking price.  No, I'm not a bidder, but I'm definitely a dreamer.  Hey, the UP has money...they should pick it up for display in North Platte...or, ala Freedom Train, on a set of rollers in a baggage car complementing their executive train.  Good PR, IMHO!!  OTOH, it begs to RUN pulling lonnngggg trains in the wide-open 7.5" gauge spaces!!

Go, Bruno!!

KD

WOW!!! I wish my basement was a little bit bigger.

How about this?...I love this video...

The original listing states that the engine was converted from oil burning to propane by the builder who apparently compleated the project.

Yeah, back in the day, you may have been able to buy a real one, but now the same money only gets you a smaller one.  Seems fair to me...

-Mark

OK, philosophical question:

Is this considered a "real" train? It is under steam. It needs to be oiled and looked after just like its big brother. IMHO, this is a real engine just in miniature, just like a miniature horse is still a horse, of course (sorry), not a toy horse.

Well, actually it isn't a "real train". It is a REAL LOCOMOTIVE, just one and a half inch scale, and definitely needs to be operated AND lubricated just like a real FULL SIZE LOCOMOTIVE.

Seeing that it takes passengers and an engineer, that puts it into the realm of "real trains".  But also it's a scale model of a "real train".  Of course, you could also ride on an electric (or wind-up) train as well, so I think the answer to your question depends upon how you determine the criteria.

-Mark

Bob, don't be surprised, after all this IS the OGR (Old Grumpy Retired people) forum.

I guess all those cars it was pulling dosen't count, better have Rich change the title in the forums from "Real Trains" to "Real Locomotives" then.

 

 

Except, this thread isn't on "Real Trains"  It's on the "3-Rail - O27, HiRail and Classic O Gauge" forum. 

Of which this Challenger appears to be none of these.

Rusty

Thanks for posting the Big Boy video.  It appears the layout builder was going for the Keddie Wye look on the Western Pacific!

Hey, at least they can't complain that it was made in China!

I think it's one cool looking train, if I had the money I'd love to have something like this. The craftsmanship is outstanding! That guy put a ton of work in it and those who are negativizing about it need to lighten up. 

Jerry

the Big Boy video was shot at Tim Miller's Pacific Coast Railroad in Sherwood, Oregon.  his place was up for sale (including any of the locomotives you'd care to barter for) earlier this year.  ...and if you think the Challenger was high priced, don't even ask.

i doubt if any of the vids of Bruno on the Challenger were taken in Texas.  more likely Maricopa where the locomotive is, in fact, back there and may be running again by the spring meet in March.

by the way, referring to Bruno's work as a train vs merely the locomotive is technically more correct.  he built at least a few dozen cars specifically to go with the Challenger.  i should know, i now own a few of them myself.