China mulls high-speed train to US:

PUTIN yes that's guy not the other Russkie.

The sad truth is that this country's congressional members, more than 1/2, deny science and technology.  So they do nothing to advance it. States that continue to supply congress with these science deniers create a world where China,Russia and other third world countries will advance and we are being left as a backward nation. I do not understand why they rejoice in this situation. But sadly they do.    

Did you see the number of comments that thought the article said they were going to build an 8000 mile tunnel?

Reading comprehension, so many of us suck at it, don't use it.

I guess I'll be one of the few to point out that they don't even have to build all the way to the continental US--just to the CN at Fort Nelson, BC. And Canada is already interested in connecting that line to the Alaska RR regardless of what China does, so they might not even have to go that far.

---PCJ

This is one of the few RR projects I know of that would actually cost MORE than a full restoration of UP #18 !     Good success, you guys !

It is known as 'ignorance is bliss' and is manifested in many ways, you see it in the idea that educated people are 'elites' while everyone else is 'a real American' or other twaddle. I think they rejoice in being anti science because among other things, science forces you to think about things, ideas have to be justified and thought about, rather than blindly accepted as other things are (on the other hand, that doesn't mean there aren't those who swallow science without questioning it in the science community, just read up on the history of plate tectonics or big bang theory for that matter). The kind of thing you are talking about was summed up well by Mel Brooks in Blazing Saddles, when the Waco Kid is talking to Sheriff Bart, and tells him "What did you expect? These are common people, people of the earth...you know, morons" *lol*. 

It would be a stupendous feat to build something like this and while I suspect it won't be done, one of the things that disturbs me is this attitude like you cannot even dream any more, it is a world of 'we can't do that', 'we shouldn't do that', it is like retreating back into our shells or something. One of the reasons kids have such a rich world in their minds is that they don't think like that, to them anything is possible, and the whole retreating into the past, hanging on to what we have today and afraid to look forward is sad, it is like the whole of society listened to the idiots whose mantra is to 'grow up', which means throwing away any idea of dreaming. Something like this may never get off the ground, probably won't, but there were a lot of generations of dreaming that led to the ability to fly, the invention of the rail road came about by people who dreamed, and even if this isn't built, maybe in dreaming about doing it other things come out of it, ideas in engineering or what not that can be applied elsewhere. When civilizations and its people stop dreaming, they die, and while this proposal is probably nothing more than a dream, it is a sign that maybe, maybe,there is life out there, people daring to dream, to be outrageous, rather than hunkered in dreaming of the past.

Before reading some of the posts in this thread, I had never realized that this film was a documentary 

ROTFLMAO!

For another laugh, you might want to read "A Transatlantic Tunnel, Hurrah!" by Harry Harrison. 

"If the project is a success, the credit will belong to Captain Augustus Washington, the most brilliant engineer of our age. It is Washington's greatest hope that his success will at last erase the family shame inspired by that other Washington, George, traitor to his King, who was hanged by Lord Cornwallis more than two centuries ago."

http://www.amazon.com/Transatl...rrison/dp/B007SRY0VI

Just what we need a direct line for Russia and China to get to the USA. So sorry not gonna happen. 

Ah better red than dead!

Folklore says the channel tunnel has built in demo charges should anyone decided to try to invade us again.

Nick

I'm not sure about demo charges Nick, but I do understand that it can be flooded from either end should the need arise. (We haven't forgotten 1066, or even AD 43 yet in Sussex & Kent.)

that's an ambitious undertaking, hope they don't get stuck half way across

under the North Pacific.................

Not so fast...look at that picture again...Their stuff usually takes a little longer to arrive:

Mark

Any models of the above CRH trains in 'O' would likely be some of the first trainsets where the lead unit isn't powered--due to the extreme taper of the nose, a model with the typical 'O' drivetrain would likely need its motors located in a passenger car.

So what's going to be first--China greenlighting this mad venture, or Asian/European HST's showing up in 3-rail 'O'?

---PCJ

from what I have read and heard China own's a lot of the U.S now anyways there just making a roadway to get to there properties

How about 1944?

I wouldn't place a lot of stock in second-hand "off-the-record" rumors.

My good friend "Joe" has done extensive work in China as a consulting engineer on major concrete highway and bridge construction projects. True story. A bit more about "Joe":

1) He has advanced degrees in Civil Engineering, Chemistry and Physics.
2) He had a distinguished career with CalTrans.
3) He did Field Engineering of numerous major highway and bridge projects.
4) He did extensive concrete testing related to highway and bridge projects.
5) He is a world-class expert on concrete engineering and related chemistry.
6) He was a consulting engineer on major projects in China and other countries.

I have heard "Joe" talk for hours and hours on these subjects, first-hand info from a world-class expert. To sum up some pertinent observations about China by "Joe":

1) The Chinese are not stupid.
2) The Chinese are not lazy.
3) The Chinese are making temendous advances in engineering, technology and nation-building. They are not making large-scale stupid mistakes on major infrastructure projects the way some folks would have you believe.

It cannot be objectively denied that China has developed a high-speed rail network considerably advanced beyond that in our own country. Some folks just don't want to recognize that.

Sarah Palin will then be able to say she's an expert on China; she'll say she can look into the tunnel and see China.

Well, not the polar bear, anyway. Projections are that they'll be nearly extinct in the wild in a few years, along with thousands of other species.

Ace, I for one do not doubt any of the assertions you have offered. However, I still see this as "pie in the sky". The issue is not do-ability. The issue is practicality. It just doesn't make sense.

Length of Chunnel: 31 miles

Shortest distance across Bering Straits: 51 miles

An interesting point about the Chunnel: it probably could have been built decades sooner, except for the political situations. The chalky seabed was relatively easy to tunnel through, and impervious to water.

I would guess that a railway from China could happen in 20 to 50 years, if it doesn't get derailed by politics. A big "if" !

Hmmmm, a railroad from China, through Russia, under the Bering Strait into Alaska, then through Canada.  No chance for any political issues there.  For starters, after Putin and his cronies sucked out their share of the slush, the project will be broke before it even gets to the Bering Strait.  Anyone interested in a bridge in Brooklyn? 

1) Many Chinese engineers are trained at American universities so if they're not very good what does that say about our education system? 

2) At most top universities the majority of computer science grads now come from outside the USA. I know this also true at many medical schools. 

3) China can put a man into space. The USA can no longer say the same. 

4) China isn't alone in pouring bad concrete and having public works projects of questionable quality. Ever hear of the Ted Williams Tunnel in Boston? How about Galloping Gertie? How about the I-35 bridge in Minneapolis? 

The US once went from not being able to put a golf ball into orbit to landing a man on the moon in barely a decade. These days we claim it's impossible to provide our citizens with healthcare or build a 300 mile high speed railroad. Can we still call ourselves the greatest nation on Earth when both of our political parties shoot down any even remotely ambitious idea as being too expensive?

We have the money and the technical know-how. Problem is we lack the ambition. China on the other hand is willing to invest in big projects. For that matter so are other countries. When you compare roads/airports/trains in Japan, Germany and the US it's hard to imagine that it was the US that won WW2! Helps that people in those countries are willing to pay for these things while here in the USA we snivel like babies about high taxes and high gas prices (never mind we have the lowest of both of just about any industrialized nation!) 

In my early teens, 12 years or so, a movie came out about China invading the USA by using a tunnel  they had dug from China to the North West USA.  Maybe the railroad is a cover for tunnel.

Al

That flick was a hoot!  Like all good bad movies, it was like a mental enema...

Rusty

Was it this movie? 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_Beneath_the_Earth

Battle Beneath the Earth (1967) is a British spy film ...

The plot involves rogue elements of the communist Chinese army who use fantastic burrowing machines in an effort to place atomic bombsunder major U.S. cities. The U.S. Navy sends troops underground to combat them. The film has been described as "deliriously paranoid".

I remember that film too. 

Ha, the bad old days of the Red Menace! Now they are going to destroy us with trainloads of Dollar Store landfill brought in through a tunnel ...

Without getting into the nitty gritty, it isn't that China is stupid, it isn't that China lacks technology or engineering talent, the real issue is that the way things are done there, you have an old problem, that time pressures and frankly outright corruption combine to make for dangerous situations. And no, it isn't unique to China, it happens here, shoddy concrete work has caused collapses, and if you read the history of such kinds of things, it happened a lot when things were moving too fast and so forth. 

I am not an engineer, but I have construction background, my uncle who ran the company was a PE in Civil Engineering and so forth so I have some knowledge of what it involves.

There are two main factors with concrete, and both come into play here. Different mixes of concrete have different sets of characteristics (the mix is the ratio and the type of cement and aggregate used), and often for example concrete firms will either deliberately (to charge for a higher priced mix while delivering lower cost stuff, the mob run companies in NYC were famous for that, as well as underdelivering on pours), and there is room for bribery here, where companies will deliver inferior concrete and pay off the inspectors and such working for the construction company. Concrete is supposed to be certified, but as happened in NYC in recent years (the head of a testing company went to jail, for certifying the concrete being used in places like the new Yankee Stadium, I believe water tunnel #3 and other big projects that they never tested) the testing companies can make good money to look the other way.

The other issue is cure time, to get to the right strength concrete has to cure for a certain period of time, and it has to cure neither too slowly or especially quickly (if it goes to quickly, it can crack and have other problems). When putting up a building with concrete floors, you cannot legally start putting up the next floor until the one you are working on had its concrete set for x days, but with time constraints there is a lot of pressure to cut corners. 

This isn't unique to China, but right now they are doing so many things, so rapidly, and there are so many people with their hands out that like NYC in recent years, they are running into problems, many of which won't be seen until another 10-20 years pass. Corruption is a major problem, very little gets done without greasing palms and such, and with construction going at a break neck pace there also are relatively few inspectors to handle all of it, even if they are honest. 

Like anything else, you have to look at it in context and understand what is going on and why. The engineering expertise is there, the technology is there and in many cases they have the will to do things like this that don't happen here. There are a lot of hurdles to a project like this,technical and money wise, but the biggest one that makes this unfeasible is political, the Russians aren't going to allow the train to use their territory, for one, and in the US everyone from labor groups not wanting to make it easier to outsource jobs to China, to the John Birch society types seeing a commie invasion imminent (which is kind of silly,assuming the Chinese would use the railroad to invade the US is kind of WWII'ish, it assumes a)the Chinese would want to invade and b)that somehow they could secure the train against attack, when in some ways a rampaging moose could put it out of business, let alone bombs, dynamite or other things that could destroy it in a matter of minutes. 

Bigkid, Thanks Very Much for taking the time to offer a thoughtful and informed perspective on this subject. That's some good food for thought.

From Hot Water:

"Have YOU actually witnessed some of the concrete work in Chine during the last 10 years? I must admit that I have never been over there, due to my asthma, but I have a LOT of friends and business associates, some of whom deal with the Chinese Railway officials, and the "off the record reports" are quite disturbing."

Yes I have in 2004 in Shenzhen, they were building a new hotel next to the one I was staying at.  The concrete was mixed by hand from bags, no Red-Mix trucks. Questionable quality to sya the least.  Not to mention the bamboo scaffolding.