Outer loop is up and running.
@Dallas Joseph posted:No need for embarrassment Tom.
The CEO here said ours also has to be up for Thanksgiving when all the relatives show up .
Thanks Dallas, I’m glad to get the encouragement. My orders for the T-day also came from Headquarters. However for me, mine was from my daughter… doesn’t get much higher up the chain than that.
Walt, sorry to hear about your shoulder, I hope it’s not too big of a setback. The size and location (on the floor) of your layout make for a major undertaking.
I used to do my on the floor – in fact, I prefer it – but my boss wanted it up at coffee table height and she got a dog, so I had no choice. I do like the idea of channels for the wiring, I find D56 lighting wires a real PITA to deal with. Being up on a platform as made that a bit easier. I use felt for my ‘snow’ but have always found getting the track on top and the wiring underneath a challenge. What I generally do is lay out the track and wiring for the D56 lighting, then pull the felt under the track and over the wires. I need to find a better way. I would love to hear suggestions.
The pictures I’ve included show the overall shape of the table. Along the walls is 10 ft on each side and the curvy sides are a minimum of 6 ft wide. The Styrofoam 'hills' are now pushed under the felt and I have finally started to get the buildings out. There will be a number of Flyer accessories for the granddaughter’s amusement. The last picture is of a stone wall I made, before painting and weathering, checking for clearance. I had to take a ¼” off the back.
Tom Stoltz
in Maine
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Nice looking track, Tom. What is that? Kato HO? Bachmann HO? Very sharp.
PD
@pd posted:Nice looking track, Tom. What is that? Kato HO? Bachmann HO? Very sharp.
PD
It's S-Trax, originally S-Helper Service -- SHS -- and later by MTH. It is S gauge. The engine in the picture is a Flyonel Berkshire.
Tom Stoltz
in Maine
@pd posted:Sorry to hear about the shoulder, Walt. I did that once (dislocate), and it hurt like the devil (possibly worse than when I fractured the same shoulder years later). Anyway, Advil is your friend.
U-shaped layouts are fun as you will have a sense of sitting in it rather than next to it. Wiring a bit more tricky, as you can't just run side-to-side, but it will be a fun variation. Just curious, how many power feeds to a loop of track on your 11x14? I need to add one or two to my outside loop on the permanent layout (roughly 8x14).
PD
i agree with you that wiring is going to be trickier than when my layout was just a rectangle. But because I put blue board pieces, which are a bit smaller than the Homasote piece above it, it creates paths for me to run wires in. But there are several other things that I always knew how to handle that I'm having to rethink in order to try to hide wires as best as possible.
As for power feeds, it depends if swithes are involved. Since my design this year is basically 5 "loops" I am only using 4 per loop on my 2 outer DCS 'loops' and only 2 on my smaller conventional loops. The rec circles are the power feeds and the 'x' marks dummy pins.
- walt
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Thanks for the info re: power feeds, Walt. I'll need to add one or two to my outer loop, and I think I'm going to change to a larger gauge wire while I'm at it.
@pd posted:Thanks for the info re: power feeds, Walt. I'll need to add one or two to my outer loop, and I think I'm going to change to a larger gauge wire while I'm at it.
I'm overly, maybe, cautious about wiring. I use 14 or 16 gauge for anything longer than say 6' away from the power source. I do use 18 gauge if close though.
Jim Barrett's rule of thumb was one connection every 6, maybe it was 8, not sure, track connections. His rule led me to investing in a lot of 3' long O27 track pieces even though I had more of the regular sized track pieces than I would ever need/use..
waltl
@walt rapp posted:I'm overly, maybe, cautious about wiring. I use 14 or 16 gauge for anything longer than say 6' away from the power source. I do use 18 gauge if close though.
Jim Barrett's rule of thumb was one connection every 6, maybe it was 8, not sure, track connections. His rule led me to investing in a lot of 3' long O27 track pieces even though I had more of the regular sized track pieces than I would ever need/use..
waltl
Walt,
Is the heavy gauge wire and frequent drops because of DCS? I run DC with 2 18 AWG drops for each loop. It's something like 14 pieces of track between feeders with no change in speed at all.
Tom Stoltz
in Maine
With some runs over 14' long on my layout I prefer at least 16 to reduce voltage drop. Plus I got a whole bunch of 14, 16, and 18 gauge wire from a friend so I use it since it never hurts.
The 'theory' with using DCS is to never have more than one power drop per section. So for me that means using insulation pins to break things up. 4 points of contact for me is minimal. I've had up to 10 when I have switches and cross-overs (X's).
I used to always exclusively use 18 gauge like you are doing and never had a problem as you don't either. You don't see any negative effects so what you're doing obviously is fine.
- walt
Walt, if I'm understanding your diagram properly, you have your loops organized/isolated with individual blocks, each with its own power feed. I have not done this, instead just dropping multiple feeds at various points on a single loop with no blocks. I'm wondering if there's a benefit to using your method. Certainly there is if running conventional and you plan to operate multiple trains over the same loop, but if not, is it necessary to isolate power-blocks to maximize power? Just wondering aloud, actually...
PD
@pd posted:Walt, if I'm understanding your diagram properly, you have your loops organized/isolated with individual blocks, each with its own power feed. I have not done this, instead just dropping multiple feeds at various points on a single loop with no blocks. I'm wondering if there's a benefit to using your method. Certainly there is if running conventional and you plan to operate multiple trains over the same loop, but if not, is it necessary to isolate power-blocks to maximize power? Just wondering aloud, actually...
PD
thanks for taking such a close look.
On the 2 outer loops, they are DCS controlled so, yes, I create blocks with ONE power connection per block.
The 3 inner loops are conventional. I do use insulation pins IF I'm going to design a track plan where trains can change loops. I want separate, controllable power on each conventional loop, thus the value (to me) of electrically separating each loo
walt
Okay, thanks for that, Walt. I didn't realize you were running a control system (DCS). It all makes sense to me now. Appreciate the input. Good luck with this year's construction.
PD
I'll be setting up our Christmas layout the Friday after Thanksgiving, as is our family tradition. However, we're off to a good start with all the ideas I'm getting from seeing all the great layouts of our OGR Forum members in the latest OGR Magazine. Nice job by Skip, Patrick, Will, Mel, and others!
Well, I'm trying to arrange D56 buildings with American Flyer accessories. Once I decide where everything goes, I'll run light strings under the felt. I took out the middle piece of felt so I can reach under the other two with the lights. Then the middle goes down but cut in half, so I can get under the back half. Then to the front half... at least that's the plan, we'll see.
When tried my AF whistling billboard, it didn't work -- It worked the last time I used it, though that was probably 28 years ago. I'm in the middle of cleaning it... more later.
Tom Stoltz
in Maine
forgot to add the pix
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After a 2 year hiatus, our traveling family Christmas layout will be back on display. The trains will be on display December 3rd at St Johns School in Westminster, MD. We have a great time and it is always fun to take the trains on a little trip! Spent time last weekend with Dad getting the tables dusted off and track tested in the garage. The other photo is from the last event back in 2019.
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Hey, I live in Westminster...maybe I'll swing by! Looks like a very nice layout for a traveler.
PD
@Tom Stoltz posted:When tried my AF whistling billboard, it didn't work -- It worked the last time I used it, though that was probably 28 years ago. I'm in the middle of cleaning it... more later.
Tom, sometimes the impeller in the Flyer whistling billboard gets a bit bound up if it sits for a long time. A bit of clock oil or tuner cleaner/lubricant will get it going again.
The layout looks great, BTW.
Where I am as of 11/18. The shoulder was a bit painful to work wiith but...
In previous posts I mentioned how I lay blue board underneath the Homasote and leave gaps in the blue board to run wires. In these pictures I have all the feeders wires in place for both track power and accessory power. Notice how it's really hard to find a wire showing.
Of course when I start setting up accessories and have to connect them to the feeder it's harder to hide those wires.
walt
My 1st attempt at doing a panorama with my phone. Have to learn to get better.
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@pd posted:Tom, sometimes the impeller in the Flyer whistling billboard gets a bit bound up if it sits for a long time. A bit of clock oil or tuner cleaner/lubricant will get it going again.
The layout looks great, BTW.
Good suggestion pd, the impeller and the armature do turn freely. What I did find is the armature, under power, will turn like a third of a turn and stop. If I turn the armature a little, it will replete the slight movement. This makes me think there is a broken wire in one of the segments. IIRC separating the armature from the impeller might be a bit of a job. Not for now. Found an old junker whistling billboard that does work, just have to lube and put a new sign/billboard in place and it will be good enough.
Tom Stoltz
in Maine
@walt rapp posted:Where I am as of 11/18. The shoulder was a bit painful to work wiith but...
In previous posts I mentioned how I lay blue board underneath the Homasote and leave gaps in the blue board to run wires. In these pictures I have all the feeders wires in place for both track power and accessory power. Notice how it's really hard to find a wire showing.
Of course when I start setting up accessories and have to connect them to the feeder it's harder to hide those wires.
walt
My 1st attempt at doing a panorama with my phone. Have to learn to get better.
Looking good Walt. Do you intend to put 'snow', aka cotton, in place? I will be curious to see what you do. I am not happy with the path I chose this year, but I have to deal with in now.
Tom Stoltz
in Maine
@Prr7688 posted:Well - it is almost that time of year... stores and advertisers have started with their Christmas themes and decorations, have you started with your Christmas trains??
No. I refuse to embrace the foolishness the advertising and promotion of Christmas before Thanksgiving or in the case of this year again prior to Halloween.
@mwb posted:No. I refuse to embrace the foolishness the advertising and promotion of Christmas before Thanksgiving or in the case of this year again prior to Halloween.
I was shocked that the local radio station ONLY switched to Christmas music today. Usually it's right after Halloween.
Walt it's looking good. Always a treat to see your layout and the build.
@Tom Stoltz posted:Looking good Walt. Do you intend to put 'snow', aka cotton, in place? I will be curious to see what you do. I am not happy with the path I chose this year, but I have to deal with in now.
Tom Stoltz
in Maine
Tom,
That big white area (pained Homasote) will be the Winter/Christmas area. I've done this before and it looks OK to me once the accessories are added in. Sometimes I spread a white Christmas tree "skirt"(?) on it first just to see if I like that. Sometimes I use sprinkled on baking soda to simulate snow.
This year I'm going to leave is as is and see if it needs any 'help'.
thanks for asking
walt
@aussteve posted:Yes I've started but it won't be running trains for a while.
I can only dream...
Dave
@Tom Stoltz posted:Looking good Walt. Do you intend to put 'snow', aka cotton, in place? I will be curious to see what you do. I am not happy with the path I chose this year, but I have to deal with in now.
Tom Stoltz
in Maine
I usually use a couple large pieces of plain white felt, or white felt that has a bit of glitter embedded. The first piece goes down as a table cover. Then I string the battery-powered lights with a second piece of felt on top. I've never used cotton batting for fear of having strands getting wound up in the mechanisms. The trains on the Christmas display are all clockworks, so no electrics of any consequence running between the layers.
PD
I'm starting to feel like this is my own personal thread! 
anyways, I'm making some progress, bad shoulder and all.
All 5 sets of trackage have been test run, screwed down, and partially ballasted. Starting with scenery next.
- walt
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I like the look of a three-track mainline, Walt. That will provide a lot of concurrent visuals in those areas, especially if things run in opposite directions.
What are you running these days? I recall you acquiring a bunch of modern tinplate years back, and I’ve seen some of it in recent years, but it looks like you’ve added some postwar stuff as well to the roster.
PD
About 8 years ago I sold all of my modern stuff - 11 MTH DCS engines, 99 cars (all Pittsburgh relateed on one way or another), other stuff. Used the money to buy my 2 tin plate sets.
The older stuff that I have is very limited. There's a Lionel steamer which was a gift from my parents so it will never be sold. My first Lionel train set. I do have one steamer that is somewhat newer - a Lionel CHRISTMAS steamer.
Some years I bring out the family train - PW stuff that Dad bought in the early 50's
thanks for asking. You have some kind of great memory!!!
walt
It's that time of year to start thinking about trains around the tree at Christmas. Although I don't assemble Holiday layouts any longer, here are 9 of my layouts from 2008 - 2016. Every year I assembled a new track layout with different trains to keep things interesting.
Hopefully, these videos will inspire some of you to keep the Holiday spirit going by arranging some of your trains under the tree. Happy Holidays!
Christmas 2016
Christmas 2015
Christmas 2014
Christmas 2013
Christmas 2012
Christmas 2011
Christmas 2010
Christmas 2009
Christmas 2008
Inspirational for sure, David. I enjoyed seeing them all, then and now.
PD
Ugh, nearly done, but the four-foot tree is only half-lit. A couple hours with the Light-Keeper Pro only offered a temporary fix. Gonna run to the store tonight and see if I can find an inexpensive replacement (I hate pre-lit trees 
).
PD
@pd posted:Ugh, nearly done, but the four-foot tree is only half-lit. A couple hours with the Light-Keeper Pro only offered a temporary fix. Gonna run to the store tonight and see if I can find an inexpensive replacement (I hate pre-lit trees
PD
Wow, pd, sure sounds like the year when if it can go wrong, it does. To refresh my early start; the whole idea was to have trains and accessories set up for Thanksgiving so our granddaughter could play with them. Also, it was required to have no tree until after T-day.
Well, in general I reached the goal, however every repro accessory failed. It turns out Lionel has accessories (at least 3) that are driven with a belt. If the accessory sits too long without use, the belt takes a set and no longer works… Great! Only my original Flyer accessories worked, but none of the others.
So I’ll post a few pix of the layout ‘pre-tree’.
Last weekend we started the tree. Which meant the interior of the layout had to be removed to make way for the tree. We got it up only to discover we could not locate its controller – that means no lights! Panic and a mad search for local stores that had pre-lite trees. Most that listed trees in stock were really through internet sales. We finally located a display model that Lowes was willing to sell ‘as is’. At least it was a working tree and with the floor model reduced price and their GI discount, we got a really good deal.
So todays job is to move a 68 lb tree with a 20 lb base 6 ft into the middle of the layout…
To be continued…
Tom Stoltz
in Maine
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Fear not. You shall prevail !!!
@TomStoltz- great looking layout. Good luck with the tree sounds like quiet a job. We avoid all that, pack away tree fully decorated. Pull tree out of wrapper, put on tree table, plug in. Tree’s up!!
Happy holidays
Don
I just put a loop of HO track around my Christmas tree and ran one of my HO diesels (an old Life-Like Santa Fe Warbonnet GP38-2) and a consist of red and green Christmas-colored freight cars. Running those old trains sure brings back memories from when I was a young kid (I'm still a kid at heart).
Aussteve, I totally agree with you. By the way, I'm planning to build my own train shed soon. Hopefully sometime next year I can get started on my layout.
Tom, the layout/display looks great! I presume you will clear a path/corridor to get that tree in place.
Picked up a replacement four-foot tree last evening. Not as nice as the one it replaces, but at least it lights. Now working on getting the lights for the buildings set up and the tree decorated.
PD
@pd posted:Tom, the layout/display looks great! I presume you will clear a path/corridor to get that tree in place.
PD
A picture of the tree on the edge of the layout where it was decorated. Then one of me sliding the tree into position.
Now to put things back together...
Tom Stoltz
in Maine
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@SteveC posted:I just finished putting together my own version of modular benchwork about an hour ago. I'll try to post progress. I had only posted images of completed Christmas layouts before but I think this could be interesting.
Stage 1
Stage 2 - Controlled Mess
After my old TIU's processor has failed I need to move on to a WIFi Explorer. Not in the original plan but moving forward!
11/11 - added a little more
The idea of posting the process started out promising - then life got in the way.
All you get is the completed project. Here's the youtube video link - Merry Christmas
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@Tom Stoltz posted:Wow, pd, sure sounds like the year when if it can go wrong, it does. To refresh my early start; the whole idea was to have trains and accessories set up for Thanksgiving so our granddaughter could play with them. Also, it was required to have no tree until after T-day.
Well, in general I reached the goal, however every repro accessory failed. It turns out Lionel has accessories (at least 3) that are driven with a belt. If the accessory sits too long without use, the belt takes a set and no longer works… Great! Only my original Flyer accessories worked, but none of the others.
S
Last weekend we started the tree. Which meant the interior of the layout had to be removed to make way for the tree. We got it up only to discover we could not locate its controller – that means no lights! Panic and a mad search for local stores that had pre-lite trees. Most that listed trees in stock were really through internet sales. We finally located a display model that Lowes was willing to sell ‘as is’. At least it was a working tree and with the floor model reduced price and their GI discount, we got a really good deal.
So todays job is to move a 68 lb tree with a 20 lb base 6 ft into the middle of the layout…
To be continued…
Tom Stoltz
in Maine
Tom,
What a gorgeous setup, lots of buildings, you have a fantastic Christmas layout.
Thank you for sharing,
Ray
