Corrext Colors for the NYC Dreyfuss?

There are color photos of the Dreyfus in the book "Twentieth Century Limited 1938 - 1967" that show the engine looking darker, closer to your engine than the passenger car.

Thanks Steve. Next question is, have any passenger cars been produced in this darker color. I'll try and locate a copy of the book.

Yes. Look at the Golden Gate Depot SCALE New York Central 20th Century cars sets that have already been produced/delivered, plus the latest 1948 Century cars, that just shipped. 

I've been able to locate a '38 set but not the '40 set to better match the engine. Any leads appreciated.

Pete

Very interesting topic about the NYC Dreyfuss color differential.

Just recently I was able to obtain an older NYC Dreyfuss steamer from 2002 in MINT condition (30-1231-1 / Cab number 5449 -- it appears in catalog Volume 1 of that year). It sure is a beauty. It is a Proto 2 unit with glowing coal box. 

Although it is not referred to as an Imperial edition, I cannot detect any noticeable differences between the 2002 version and the 2007 Imperial edition. Neither the 2002 nor 2007 versions include lighted drive wheels as seen on the Premier edition that was released in 2000.

I do suspect that the speaker in the tender of the 2002 Dreyfuss is not as good as better quality speakers in newer products from MTH-Rail King. I am considering swapping out the existing speaker with a better one.

I am a true fan of the subdued monochromatic gray color scheme. The issue that I am having is that I cannot locate the 2002-released set of New York Central Dreyfuss streamlined passenger cars that match the locomotive and tender. The passenger cars I am seeking must be the 0-27 (60-foot) set that features the thin blue stripes that match the tender I have. I cannot use the longer passenger cars.

If any members here know where I can find the matching NYC Dreyfuss streamlined passenger car set (and add-on cars) that were issued in 2002, please let me know. I will gladly purchase a preowned set that is in excellent condition -- or a set that is new.

The model numbers I am seeking are:

30-6782 (4-car 60-ft Streamlined ABS passenger set)

30-6783 (2-car 60-ft Streamlined ABS Sleeper/Diner car set)

30-6784 (60-ft Streamlined ABS full-length Vista dome car)

30-6785 (60-ft Streamlined ABS full-length Coach car)

If I stick with the streamlined passenger cars from 2002, the gray color tint SHOULD match the gray on the locomotive and tender. 

The New York Central Dreyfuss is truly a glorious machine.

Here is a mesmerizing You Tube video (courtesy of nychudson464) that features the 2007 Imperial Dreyfuss riding the rails:

From your picture it looks like you have the lighter gray MTH passenger cars from 2000. The MTH Dreyfuss Hudson made at that time also was the lighter gray.

The 4 versions of the MTH Dreyfuss Hudson from 2006 had the darker gray. The passenger cars from 2006 were also the darker gray.

I have the 2006 version of the MTH Dreyfuss Hudson with the Scullin Disc drivers and PT tender along with a 2006 set of the passenger cars which are the darker gray and match the engine.

The Lionel Dreyfuss from 2000 was also a darker gray than the MTH version from 2000.

http://www.toytrainrevue.com/prod-3-3.htm

Sorry, I haven't checked this thread in a while. Gerry thanks for the info on the later MTH cars. The car in the photo is from a 2002 set I believe. It has interiors but no passengers other than the ones I have added. The engine is from around 2006. When I saw the color differential I thought it may have been due to the fact the engine is the later 1940 style and the cars are from the 1938 blue stripe set but have since learned that the 1938 and 1940 cars differed only in the stripe color and not in the body color. My preference is still for 1940 GGD cars but if I can find MTH cars with 4 white stripes and a better color match they would do for now as it appears the GGD 1940 cars are like hens teeth.

Apologies if this has drifted to far astray of Real Trains

Pete

I wrote an article for the NYCSHS that ended up on the New York Central System Historical Society web site. In an effort to document this correctly, I was able to obtain the official DuPont color chips from the assets of a former NYC Mechanical Dept employee, who obtained them from DuPont. There is some evidence that NYC "reversed the greys" from the 1938 Dreyfuss train to the 1948 diesel hauled 20TH Century Limited. The article contains the paint codes that anyone can use to duplicate the chip colrs using paint from Lowes or Sherwin Williams.

I have three Dreyfuss Hudsons, one a Lionel Smithsonian, one a MTH second run, and one US Hobbies painted by a person "who saw the engines and the train". (There is a digital image of these three engines as a part of my layout described in the 4Q issue of the NYCSHS "For the Modeler", available on the NYCSHS website.) The same photo as a black and white image is contained in the last TCA bulletin.

The Lionel Smithsonian and the second issue of the MTH are "almost exactly" the color of the DuPont chips. From three feet away, there is no visible difference...

The USH engine is only marginally lighter in color with almost no change in hue. The only complaint I have with the Smithsonian and with the MTH is that neither approaches the gloss of the DuPont chip. (I understand that model makers do not like glossy paint as it shows finger marks.)

I am sure that the lacquer on the engines and train faded after time in service. An O scale friend who saw three Dreyfuss engines at one time, at Toledo during the war, thought that the MTH second run color was "perhaps one or two shades too dark", even though this engine almost exactly matches the official chip.

This is all of the information that I have on this subject.

Fantastic information. Thank you.

Pete

HW, I took your advice. Actually I was leaning towards these regardless of how close the color match was. Thought you all might be interested in seeing how the GGD cars match up with the MTH Hudson. Photo was taken with halogen lighting primary. Still a difference but the shade is closer under normal lighting. Not quite the disparity as the photo shows. No editing of color temp or tint was applied.

Lesson learned here. Buy the engine and cars from the same manufacturer and same year of production when possible.

Pete

Another top drawer resource would be the following 160 pg. soft cover booklet:  PULLMAN PAINT AND LETTERING NOTEBOOK 1933-1969 by Arthur Dubin, published by Kalmbach in 1997 and maybe later.  It has thoroughly researched color match chips in the back for NYC, NKP, SP, PULLMAN, UP and most of the Class Ones, plus all sorts of paint and lettering diagrams and dimensions.  It would be hard to beat or prove it wrong.

Of course, the exact shade of gray would actually be determined by how many days it had  been since the engine had been through a wash rack.

FWIW when the New York Central System Historical Society's "Central Headlight" reviewed the recent Walthers HO 1950's 20th Century equipment, they said something to the effect that "finally someone got the shades of gray exactly right".

Hello Pete,

I have a RailKing 30-67344 Dark Gray Dreyfuss issued in 2007. Would RailKing be acceptable.

Fred

Hello Terrence L.

MTH has just issued (2013, vol. 2) two gray RailKing 60" Dreyfuss Passenger sets (p72 and p73). One is Dreyfuss (1940) with no blue lines and the other is Dreyfuss (1938) with blue lines. They then match them with locomotives (p.14 and 15). I have a RK 1113LP Dreyfuss. It appears to be lighter than the locomotives in the pictures on page 14 and 15. Also my 1113LP has cab number 5445. My engine's tender graphics seems to match with the catalog's 5451 or the Dreyfuss (1938). I would like to purchase the MTH 30- 67769 4 car set for my 5445, but I am worried about the color shade. Does anyone know about the MTH RailKing Dreyfuss color Schemes on the Dreyfus sets?

Fred, since I first posted this I solved the problem by acquiring a 3rd Rail engine and matching cars. 

Pete

Pete,

Thank you for the information. Because of the different shades, the Dreyfuss gray is not universal. Thus, the purchase of Dreyfus passenger cars on line may be difficult.

Fred