Cruise control for conventional locomotives?

You are looking for an "ERR AC Commander" board/kit. Search here (upper left corner click and then click "search" and fill in the term I used.

EBay has them:

Pretty sure I'm OK wrt copyright on this pic as it is from ERR and the company is defunct.

I have a dalle e unit board, would this replace that totally?

Is this an AC or DC motored unit?  Actual model numbers help us to help you.

If it's an AC motor, you can forget about cruise, it's not available for the AC motors.  For DC motors, you want the ERR Cruise Commander.

This loco has been retrofitted with a 8030-100 MPC/Fundimensions(1970s) motor truck. (found from a previous old thread of mine) Picture of the motor base is attached, I can get more if needed.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Is this an AC or DC motored unit?  Actual model numbers help us to help you.

If it's an AC motor, you can forget about cruise, it's not available for the AC motors.  For DC motors, you want the ERR Cruise Commander.

Isn't there (or wasn't there) an AC Commmander which, although it doesn't/didn't have cruise, still makes/made AC Pullmor motors run smoother and provide better-than-OEM slow speed performance?

Lew, the AC Commander does wonders for AC motors, but it's not cruise control.  I put one in my Phantom locomotive after doing the dual-motor conversion, it was night and day over the old LCRU2 that was in the Phantom.

dangerwildmike posted:

This loco has been retrofitted with a 8030-100 MPC/Fundimensions(1970s) motor truck. (found from a previous old thread of mine) Picture of the motor base is attached, I can get more if needed.

The motor base doesn't do me much good, but I'll assume that it has a can motor.  Cruise may or may not work with it, some motors don't work well with back-EMF cruise.

That's an AC motor-- no cruise for you :-( 

If the MPC-era motor is in good health AND power distribution on your layout is good, it should lug down to about 9 scale mph, which isn't terrible.  Much better than any traditional steam loco made before the 1990s.  The AC commander might let it run a little better because it would be driving the motor with chopped-wave 18V AC instead of a pure sine wave of lower amplitude.  Running it with a K-Line transformer will accomplish the same thing.  It will lug down to a slower speed, and it will be noisy!  For improved performance, in increasing order of difficulty:

1) Substitute a postwar armature assembly from a 600-series switcher or 200-series Alco.  Maybe a postwar brushplate too, so you can properly adjust thrust play.  Rant/ WHY hasn't anyone made a 5-pole retrofit for the Pullmor motor?  /Rant

2) Upgrade your 44-ton diesel to dual motors, for twice as many power pulses per inch.  This should cut the continuous slow speed to something in the 5-6 smph range.  The two 3-pole back-drivable motors will "help" each other.  The second motor also helps to keep current draw (and total voltage in the circuit) consistent.  You WILL have to modify the chassis, cutting an oval shaped hole in the "blank" end.  Also, drill and file out slots for the motor truck guide tabs to ride in.  An easier way to accomplish this might be to get the chassis from another 44-ton diesel.  Cut both of them in half across the middle, and splice the open ends together, back-to-back with some brass angle.  (See this thread for a similar mod; however, this loco had the better 2028-style motors which only require a small keyhole.)

3) Ditch everything under the hood, and install a Weaver / P&D chain drive.  You will have to plate over the open end to provide a mounting surface for the truck bolsters.  If you're familiar with this type of drive, it might actually be easier than #2 above.

To quote Monte Python, "Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!" And no one would expect a toy postwar diesel to operate like a precision scale model.  But I'm not crazy.  My first diesels were an MPC-era 8361, and the DT&I 8111.  Sooner or later I'm going to do these mods to both of them!!

Ted S posted:

That's an AC motor-- no cruise for you :-( 

If the MPC-era motor is in good health AND power distribution on your layout is good, it should lug down to about 9 scale mph, which isn't terrible.  Much better than any traditional steam loco made before the 1990s.  The AC commander might let it run a little better because it would be driving the motor with chopped-wave 18V AC instead of a pure sine wave of lower amplitude.  Running it with a K-Line transformer will accomplish the same thing.  It will lug down to a slower speed, and it will be noisy!  For improved performance, in increasing order of difficulty:

1) Substitute a postwar armature assembly from a 600-series switcher or 200-series Alco.  Maybe a postwar brushplate too, so you can properly adjust thrust play.  Rant/ WHY hasn't anyone made a 5-pole retrofit for the Pullmor motor?  /Rant

2) Upgrade your 44-ton diesel to dual motors, for twice as many power pulses per inch.  This should cut the continuous slow speed to something in the 5-6 smph range.  The two 3-pole back-drivable motors will "help" each other.  The second motor also helps to keep current draw (and total voltage in the circuit) consistent.  You WILL have to modify the chassis, cutting an oval shaped hole in the "blank" end.  Also, drill and file out slots for the motor truck guide tabs to ride in.  An easier way to accomplish this might be to get the chassis from another 44-ton diesel.  Cut both of them in half across the middle, and splice the open ends together, back-to-back with some brass angle.  (See this thread for a similar mod; however, this loco had the better 2028-style motors which only require a small keyhole.)

3) Ditch everything under the hood, and install a Weaver / P&D chain drive.  You will have to plate over the open end to provide a mounting surface for the truck bolsters.  If you're familiar with this type of drive, it might actually be easier than #2 above.

To quote Monte Python, "Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!" And no one would expect a toy postwar diesel to operate like a precision scale model.  But I'm not crazy.  My first diesels were an MPC-era 8361, and the DT&I 8111.  Sooner or later I'm going to do these mods to both of them!!

 

 

Totally understandable about the older motor not running in precision scale!  Any recommendations on dual motors?  I figure I may as well update the one on there now.  I may just go that route, I tend to pull some long trains....

Buy an original, traditional sized Williams 44 tonner. It will have one or two "China Drive" motors. You can put power to both trucks, wire the motors in series and pull heavy trains at slow speeds.

One way to get slower speeds around corners is to isolate that section of track and add voltage dropping diodes. Some hefty bridge rectifiers can also be used; they contain four diodes that can be wired to reduce AC voltage. Add a toggle switch or relay to the mix to enable/disable the slow down feature.

The idea of voltage dropping diodes has been discussed frequently on the forum. I must admit that I don't know what cruise control is all about.

dangerwildmike posted:

I was curious if there is a such thing.  What are all the options I could use?  I really don’t want to upgrade to tmcc or legacy (excuse my ignorance, I think those are Lionel’s upgrades?). I just want my little 44ton center cab to take corners at decent speed and not have to increase decrease increase the voltage from my cw-80 transformer.  Would an arduino board and some programming accomplish this?  Please let me know any options!

Buy an MTH 44 tonner with DCS. DCS locomotives will run in cruise control while in conventional mode. You don't need to install DCS on your layout. There is no simple solution to get cruise on your existing engine.

Pete

Consolidated Leo posted:

 I must admit that I don't know what cruise control is all about.

Cruise control means you set a certain speed and the loco maintains that speed, whether on a curve, straight, uphill or down hill.

@dangerwildmike I would just get another MPC-era integral power truck like the 8250-125 you have now.  Both motors have to be the same.  The hard part of the mod will be cutting the hole in the frame (or splicing two frames together, if you go that route.)  You should probably have a couple of spare frames on hand in case you mess up.  Not for the faint of heart, but the result will be something unique and capable!

This type of Lionel motor and worm gearing is back-drivable, so the motors can "help" each other.  When one motor is about to stall, the other may still be turning, and can give it a "push."  The Williams worm gears are self-locking.  One motor cannot push the other.  Because of this, a Lionel diesel with two healthy Pullmor motors may surge a little, but it will run slower without stalling than a Williams diesel, even if the motors in the Williams are wired in series.  At least this would make for an interesting experiment!

Actually, I found cutting the hole in the frame to be pretty easy, I did that for my dual-motor upgrade here: Improving the Lionel Phantom Locomotive.  I did the rough cut with my Dremel fiber cutoff wheel, and then a carbide bit to smooth it. 

I then drilled the mounting plate off the old donor chassis and mounted it with some screws and nuts.

The new motor all mounted and ready to go.