DCS blocks with switches

I used my switches as the end of blocks. Powering the switch with one block (the single track side) and isolating the 2 out going tracks after the switch. Those out going tracks were then powered by separate blocks. I don't have the full 10-12 track joints in all my blocks, but I did feed the track at the center of each block as closely as possible.

Several of my switches go to sidings/spurs and I have switches installed to kill power to each siding/spur to allow shutting down any parked engines or lighted cars. I don't have a really large layout, 6' x 16', but it works really well this way. FWIW, I am using Atlas track and PH-180s to power each TIU channel. I'm currently using only 2 TIU channels.

I do the same as RTR12, in that every switch ends 3 blocks. I use Gargraves with the under switch bar that connects the center rails severed, if the switch came with such a bar (older ones did---newer don't have it).  I have about 46 switches and 70 blocks, each one individually toggle switched.

Why is each toggle=switched?:

     (1) Layout was built long before DCS, and I wanted maximum control over conventional locos.

     (2) I can kill power to a DCS loco anywhere, and not have to worry about a stray spark on the layout causing it to start, or a loco starting to move in stealth mode.

     (3) In event of a derailment, I can kill an area and keep running layout until I'm ready to fix it.

     (4) Locos not in use are not aging.

      (5) Years ago, after adding DCS to my conventional layout, I used this system to locate sources of DCS signal attenuation issues.

All my track is Gargraves 3' sections, and I never felt constrained by the 5-6 rule.  But do try to put the feeds near the center of the block for better electrical distribution.  I have blocks as long as 8 feet, and as short as 18 inches.

Since you're new to DCS and designing a new layout, I recommend #14 stranded wire for all track power.  When I built 8x4's for my grandkids, I used #16, but would not use it for anything larger, based on 75 years experience with trains.

Geez, I never considered it as complicated.   My Christmas layout runs 5 trains on a 14'x12' layout, 2 levels.  I usually have around 15 to 20 switches.  I ALWAYS follow the recommended blocking rules for DCS operation.

I consider where lockons (power feeds) are at for each block when I decide how I want to block off each of the 3 paths for each switch.  Not really complicated in my mind.  I have NEVER had an issue.  I have at times had a switch in the middle of a block!

But I don't have what one would call an operating layout.  It's more for running and just having fun.  Does that make a difference?  Don't know.

- walt

walt rapp posted:

Geez, I never considered it as complicated.   My Christmas layout runs 5 trains on a 14'x12' layout, 2 levels.  I usually have around 15 to 20 switches.  I ALWAYS follow the recommended blocking rules for DCS operation.

I consider where lockons (power feeds) are at for each block when I decide how I want to block off each of the 3 paths for each switch.  Not really complicated in my mind.  I have NEVER had an issue.  I have at times had a switch in the middle of a block!

But I don't have what one would call an operating layout.  It's more for running and just having fun.  Does that make a difference?  Don't know.

- walt

Maybe DCS won't seem complicated when I'm done but at this point it sure seems complicated compared to my prior layout using TMCC (about the same size & complexity as Walt's).  With TMCC, I ran a few power feeds, created siding blocks if I wanted to be able to cut power, attached the signal wire, and (other than switch motor wiring) I was running trains.  Now I need a 242 page book...and I'm still wrestling with how to wire it. 

If only I didn't like GE 44 tonners so much...

It really isn't complicated.  My layout follows none of the DCS rules (except 1 hot drop per block and even there I have an exception) and it runs great, and has done so since DCS was released.  I did no rewiring from my conventional layout.  And this was before "The Book."

Your layout is larger than mine and everyone is different, but I was a bit unclear about a few things at first as well. When I started wiring things is all started coming together and made more sense, to me anyway. Also, without looking and counting, I am not sure any of my blocks have the full 10-12 track joints? 

I will add that I had a couple of small temporary layouts before the one I have now. Just used a single power feed on those because they were so small. They all had DCS problems, which at the time, I thought were due to the DCS system itself and not anything I had done. Well, those problems all went away on my current layout when I wired things with blocks as I described above, which was as close to Barry's book as I could interpret and follow. 

Lance,  my comment was NOT pointed at you but rather the 2 responses before I chimed in.  I scanned them and thought "don't make it sound so hard".

- walt

Sound advice from RTR12 and RJR. 

I use switches as block delimiters in many cases.

Related question.  On my "in progress" 10x14 layout I have an outer loop of about 50' which I divided into 4 blocks with individual power drops.  I was going to have each block go to a separate power relay that could then be controlled by 4 low-current switches on a control panel with LEDs to show that the block is on/off.  I was told by another forumite that that may be overkill and just to use a single relay feeding all four blocks and it cuts down wiring time by about 75%.  Maybe just to get up and running quickly I can have a single relay or even a temporary high current switch for that matter.  I will run both DCS, TMCC/Legacy and conventional eventually.  

The advantages listed by RJR sound reasonable but as a newbie what do I know.  I have lots of sidings/pass through's that certainly will be independently switched to hold engines or entire consists.  What are your thoughts?

Kirk

I have 2 loops of track (40'-45' or so and 4 blocks each) with each loop on one switch feeding an MTH terminal block. They are on 2 separate PH-180s, isolated at the center rails of the crossover switches. Then each siding/spur I have is isolated with it's own switch, again center rail isolation. I used all 10 amp or greater rated switches. I think that is how RJR has his (or pretty similar) as well, and he has been doing this a lot longer than I have.

As an additional FYI here (not meant to complicate things) I changed out my toggle switches to rocker switches with LEDs. Thought I would save the additional wiring needed to add separate LEDs for track 'power on'...well that didn't exactly work out as planned. This caused a new intermittent problem, due to the internal workings of the rocker switches. It was a real head-scratcher for a while, until I figured out the new switches were the problem. The easiest fix for me was to add a 10 amp relay to each terminal block feed and track feed.

Personally, I am not a big fan of low current switches on an O gauge layout, especially when I am using 10 amp power supplies and may run multiple engines, lighted cars, etc. The higher current switches and/or relays are not much more in cost, especially if you shop around a little.

rtr12 posted:

Personally, I am not a big fan of low current switches on an O gauge layout, especially when I am using 10 amp power supplies and may run multiple engines, lighted cars, etc. The higher current switches and/or relays are not much more in cost, especially if you shop around a little.

I'm only using "low current" switches to turn on and off relays where the real power resides.  

Upon re-reading your post I see I completely missed the power relay part of it...   Since your low current switches are controlling 10 amp (or higher) relays that would be much, much better.  

I use fastrack on my layout. I use the switches as the end of blocks, however in yards, where the number of track sections is few (about 5 like you mentioned), I have the switch in the middle of the power block with no issues. To make the blocks longer, I will use 30" track sections to replace 3-10" track sections. 

DCS is really quite simple. It reads more complicated than it is to implement. If you try things, and the DCS signal strength gets too low, you can simply add another block.