DCS Lashup question

David,

I'm drawing the early conclusions that DCS is more "finicky" with various settings than Legacy.

Without meaning to incite a riot, I'd just like to point out that there are a number of things that DCS can do that  Legacy cannot, due to the two-way nature of DCS communications with engines as opposed to the one-way method used by Legacy (and TMCC).

Things such as adjusting and saving individual lashup member engine settings,I believe, fall into that category. If I am mistaken, someone please correct me. A few other items include keeping track of miles and hours, measuring routes, track voltage, and signal strength levels.

While we may trip across an anomaly or two, which may or may not be an actual DCS defect, it's worth noting that these features my not be available at all in Legacy.

This is not by any means a measure of which is the better system, rather, it's an opinion regarding the above statement.

clem k posted:

I only have 1 track and 1 TIU.

Will 6.1 let my MU hold their settings ?

I use the FSV button

Clem

 

I have varied success with 6.1 and FSV.  I can tell you the the FSV does work for the entire session the train is operating.  But when I power down and come back another day, all bets are of.  And typically it is the trailing or 2nd unit that is the problem.

I run with smoke off... The 2nd unit will start with smoke on.

I run with engine noise silent, or near silent.  The 2nd unit will start with 100% engine noise.

Trains will start to pull in opposite directions.  Barry is correct, hit DIR a few times and they seem to come back into sync.

Trying to turn off the smoke or turn down the engine noise of the Lash Up will only affect the lead engine.  In order for me to turn off the smoke and sound of the 2nd engine I must pull it out of inactive, then select that specific engine, turn the smoke and engine sound off, then return to pull the lashup out of inactive and select that... Hopefully all will work and I can select FSV once again to keep it set for that session.

That's my experience.  DCS S/W?  TIU H/W?   PS2 or PS3 engine problems?  My layout wiring?  Dirty Track?  DCS remote or batteries?  User error?  A combination of any or all of these?  Who knows.

Ron

You couldn't have said it any better ENGINEER JOE. If BARRY is confident with 6.1, that should give us all the green light to take the plunge. Then if we're all at 6.1 and there is a reoccurring issue, BARRY could chase it down. That would really cut down on the Lash Up post.

Thank you Ron That describes what happens to me, I keep all my sounds at 20%, smoke set to light.

Another thing that happens everyday with single locomotives and MU, after shut down the next startup... engine sounds and accent sounds go from 20% to 70% and sometimes smoke from off- to- on.

When running if power is cut for any reason the locomotives lock up tight !!   what happened to 1960 technology of flywheel coasting drive ?  they use to coast.

You do all know that if you startup a lashup member, shut it down, and then startup and run the lashup, all of the member engine, settings are reset to lashup defaults, correct?

That's the way lashups have always worked.

Barry Broskowitz posted:

You do all know that if you startup a lashup member, shut it down, and then startup and run the lashup, all of the member engine, settings are reset to lashup defaults, correct?

That's the way lashups have always worked.

???  So what value is the FSV?  That makes no sense at all.  Why would they design it that way?

Would I be the only one who thinks v6.2 should just save YOUR last desired setting until YOU are ready to change it?

Ron

??    I set all my power units the same way all the time wether its MU or single. so there fore why does it ever change.

Ill think like Joe now, thats just the way DCS is.

 All I want to know is why do my sound settings always change from 20% to 70% and only the engine sound and accent sound ? why 70 why not some other value ? and why just those two?  

Is the volume pot on any of those engines set at around 70%?

Maybe that's a setting they chose?

Thats a good point Joe !  I never thought of that because I never touch them, I know when it misses watchdog signal its 100%.  Doesn't remote override manual settings ? it used too.

Ron,

So what value is the FSV? 

It preserves settings from Shut Down to Startup.

A DCS engine can only have one set of settings at any time. Lashup member engine settings are preserved until the member engine is started up as an individual. At that time, its default engine settings are restored.

Clem,

All I want to know is why do my sound settings always change from 20% to 70% and only the engine sound and accent sound ? why 70 why not some other value ? 

They return to 70% because 70% is the DCS default setting value for those 2 settings.

and why just those two?  

What else did you change, and to what value?

Barry Broskowitz posted:

 It preserves settings from Shut Down to Startup.

Earlier post...

You do all know that if you startup a lashup member, shut it down, and then startup and run the lashup, all of the member engine, settings are reset to lashup defaults, correct?

Your statements seem conflicting... or am I interpreting them incorrectly?  How can they be preserved yet reset to defaults?

Ron

When did they set the default settings ? versions ago that didn't happen.

I never touch the volume pots

When the engine is brand-new all sounds and smoke come up 100%     missing watch dog signal does the same thing.

I set all sounds at 20% except horn which might go to 30%

All smoke is Min.

brakes off, coupler off, click clack off,

Ditch lights auto

Thats how I run all of them,  single, ALL, or MU.

I use the FSV when it pops up with Lash up mode.

I have yet to under stand why any of those adjustments have to change ever. If I like it at 20% single I'm darn sure don't want it louder in MU. 

Clem, occasionally I have to do a TIU reset and that has corrected sound changing problems for me. It don't last very long though. I find myself doing it about every 4th or 5th running session.

Today I created a lash up and when done I hit the FSV key. Everything worked great. Returned to it and the rear engine was out of sync.

I then hit dir. Button a few times and everything was in sync. At least for now that is a workable fix until MTH can fix the software in the next release.

thanks for the tip Barry B. 

Dave

David 1 Did your sounds go out of sync or just the direction ?

I usually keep the sounds around 40% then adjust them when they are in a lash up together. The sounds don't usually go out of sync. 

Dave

Ron,

Your statements seem conflicting... or am I interpreting them incorrectly?  How can they be preserved yet reset to defaults?

There's no conflict at all.

It preserves settings from Shut Down to Startup - of the lashup, without Starting Up a member engine by itself in-between.

You do all know that if you startup a lashup member, shut it down, and then startup and run the lashup, all of the member engine, settings are reset to lashup defaults, correct? - when the lashup is Shut Down and then a member engine is Started Up.

Clem,

When did they set the default settings ? versions ago that didn't happen.

Yes, they most certainly did. It's been that way ever since DCS first started supporting lashups.

Barry I have been building MU since about version one, I don't remember ever having that problem with single or MU.

they may have went back to 100%, but then it was all sounds.  This is just engine and accent sounds on all my engines even when I run single locomotives.        Only two sounds in that whole menu of sounds go to default of 70% !  that don't sound right. all other sounds keep there 20% setting horn, bell, etc.

Hmmmm

Well it seems I was premature on the fix I tried on my lash up. After going out to dinner I came home and started it up again. This time the rear unit came on at full power and pressing the direction button did nothing but change the direction but did not sync the engines. It was impossible to get them to do anything. I deleted the engines from the lash up. I did loose two traction tires in this mess.

I guess I will give up on lash ups for now. Guess I'll upgrade to 6.1 and see if that makes a difference. 

Dave

Clem,

You can believe whatever you like. I'm done with this discussion.

Hey Barry don't abandon all of us. There are real problems with lash ups and they are real. We need help to solve the problem.

Dave

I am using V5.0 since I have no desire to use my cell phone for anything other than a phone.  I too have had problems with lashups.  My constantly used lashup has a GE EVO2010 running lead and a CSX412 with PS2 (I think?) running trail.  The CSX has a new MTH battery.  The PS3 EVO has more features than the PS2, and many of the lead EVO features "disappear" when I run in MU, like SXS.  If I hit the reverse button on my remote, and then hit the forward button, the traveling lights on the EVO go out and there is no way to reset them using anything in the menu.  (If I hit the reverse button, the ditch lights go out on the EVO but operate correctly on the PS2 CSX.  When I hit the direction button again, the ditch lights in the EVO are not lit.)  I use the "function save lashup" button each time but the consist still does not retain the settings.  I also have had the problem of one loco starting up and the second engine "dead".

I also have two Mohawks.  When I doublehead them, the variable whistle and some other features that are used for single locomotive operation "disappear".

I believe that MTH is severely underestimating how many of us run locomotives doubleheaded or in MU (i.e. lash ups).

I run with two TIU's in Super Mode and track signals are 8-10 everywhere on the layout.  My two remotes have fresh batteries.  I am sure that both TIU's and both remotes are V5.0 since they were upgraded by a MTH Service Center, at a cost..... 

My general experience with software upgrades is that in a number of cases the upgrade solved one set of problems but created others, and that is my opinion and one reason that I won't sign up for an upgrade whenever one is announced.

I do not have a tablet and the location of my desktop computer and the layout and its power supplies make it impractical to do my own downloads, so I have just elected to put up with the idiosyncrasies.  I do find that I am running my layout less and less...

Hudson5432 posted:

I am using V5.0 since I have no desire...

So, if you have no desire to update, what are you really saying?

You can't compare what's happening, if you won't do the upgrades. 

Do you want people to review the flaws of old DCS versions????

I see why Barry left!

Clem, Thank you for bringing up this question and everyone (especially Barry) for commenting!  I just tried a lashup for the first time a week or so ago.  It worked, but I haven't gotten back to it to see if I am having any issues spoken of.  I'll try to get back to it this weekend.  I'm upgraded, and agree if Barry says that is best, then I'm going with it.

I guess I'm glad I only found this topic today.  I'm glad I missed out on whatever Alan had to chastise us for.  

I am saying that I won't update as often.  There are four reasons for my decision.  First, the latest update includes cell phone features that I won't use.  Second, I have learned to "live with" some of the problems that each particular version had.  Third, some of the "fixes" included with updates are not well identified or vague, and at times difficult to determine. Fourth, since I started with V2.10, each update has brought new issues.

With the post I was hopeful that someone would identify something that I was doing incorrectly, and ID the fix, but based on the quantity of posts I no longer believe that "I" am the problem.

Engineer-Joe posted:

Hudson5432 posted:

I am using V5.0 since I have no desire...

So, if you have no desire to update, what are you really saying?

You can't compare what's happening, if you won't do the upgrades. 

Do you want people to review the flaws of old DCS versions????

I see why Barry left!

No need to chastise somebody for asking a question. He asked the question, that should be what you respond to otherwise don't post. 

The problem with lash ups is real and should be addressed which Barry did but could not solve the problems the bunch of us are having. 

Dave

Ok then. So the correct answer is not the best answer?

Hudson,

I am using V5.0

Good for you. That's very unfortunate.

My general experience with software upgrades is that in a number of cases the upgrade solved one set of problems but created others, and that is my opinion and one reason that I won't sign up for an upgrade whenever one is announced.

That's nice. So, the rest of us should try to fix whatever problems you're having because you won''t do the sensible thing?

Since you've gotten specific, let me answer you point by point.

First, the latest update includes cell phone features that I won't use.

That's faulty reasoning. DCS 6.1 also includes corrections to bugs, some of which are lashup issues.

Second, I have learned to "live with" some of the problems that each particular version had. 

Another bad reason. Those problems in previous release are typically corrected in later releases.

Third, some of the "fixes" included with updates are not well identified or vague, and at times difficult to determine.

That's another poor reason to not upgrade. If you can't understand what the upgrade does, ask someone who can spell it out for you. 

Fourth, since I started with V2.10, each update has brought new issues.

That's a reason? Every version of Windows required fixes. Just like Windows, every DCS bug is typically corrected in a future release. However, you'll never know, will you?

As long as you see the upgrade glass as half-empty rather than as half-full, you're going to be complaining about bugs that have already been corrected.

Barry what are the lash-up issues 6.1 fixed ?

And where are they published or posted???

Barry

"some of which" and "typically" do not give me a lot of confidence.....

Hudson,

Clem,

Nice answer

Clem,

Yes, I completely agree - thank you!

Ok fellows lets stay under control. Although I would like the 6.1 question answered. 

Dave

wow!

Barry Broskowitz posted:

Hudson,

"some of which" and "typically" do not give me a lot of confidence.....

Tell someone who cares. Your arguments are specious and I'm done talking to you.

 

Clem,

Barry what are the lash-up issues 6.1 fixed ?

Try it and find out for yourself. There are only one or two cosmetic-level bugs of which I'm aware.

 

Even with DCS 6.1 I have found management of  MU's or lash-ups to be buggy and inconsistent on the best of days.  Nothing anybody says here will convince me otherwise.  And my sentiments have been echo'd by those who built and wired my layout too.  On the simplest power loop of my layout, I have days when the lash-up of two Canadian Pacific Holiday Train locos works fine, and other days it can be a real brain-teaser.   

Commands to adjust sound might work on the lead engine one day, and leave the sound level untouched on the trailing engine.  Think I'm kidding?  Things were so inconsistent when I was filming a video the other day, I finally gave up on the lash-up for one particular video sequence that involved PFA announcements.  Here's the scenario...

I'm double-heading two CP Holiday Train locomotives.  When I activate the PFA dialogue to hear the special holiday announcements, the engine sounds of BOTH locomotives should drop in order to hear the dialog -- but that only happens on the lead loco.  So the sounds of the trailing loco drown out the PFA dialog announcement.  Sometimes the horn works on the lead loco... Other times it doesn't.

So I can only conclude the code is buggy, and doesn't properly handle certain scenarios.  Either one part of the code is stepping on the other.  Or the code wasn't designed to handle those situations.  It's that simple.

You're talking to a former software engineer in my early career days, so I know what I'm talking about here.  Things have certainly become complex when trying to get Legacy and DCS to work together.  So I fully appreciate all that's being done to code this stuff, test it, and certify the "ready for prime-time stamp" to be put on things.  And based on what I'm experiencing, we're not quite ready for that last step. 

David

Has anyone tried using Fixed output 2, of the TIU, to see if things are any better? Some of my TIU's seem to communicate better through Fixed 2 then 1.

Dave Zucal posted:

Has anyone tried using Fixed output 2, of the TIU, to see if things are any better? Some of my TIU's seem to communicate better through Fixed 2 then 1.

I use all my TIU out puts even have a Variable changed to fixed and never noticed a difference.  I'll pay close attention next time and see if I notice any differences.