DCS Loader V2.3.4 Can't Find TIU

Tom, since you mention the stereo cable, I assume you're only trying to update the TIU, not the remote at this time.  The 2.3.4 loader program works fine under Windows 7, 64-bit.

I recommend using a power supply connected to the AUX port on the TIU.  DO not have power going to any TIU INPUT.  If you don't have an auxiliary power supply and must use FIXED1, disconnect the OUTPUT terminals of FIXED 1 Do not have a phone cord connected. 

All wires must be connected before powering up the TIU. 

Use Device Manager on the computer to ascertain which comm port the TIU is on.  In the loader program, set the comm port to that port number.

If at any time an effort fails, turn off power to the TIU & then back on before retrying.

Many of the USB/serial interface cables require you to install software that come with the cable.

When you turn to the remote, be sure stereo cable is out, that you have recycled power to the TIU, and once again, connect all wires before powering the TIU.

Follow the on-screen instructions precisely in the order given.

Thanks for your fast reply and helpful suggestions.  After power cycling the rev L TiU, I was then able to upload the TIU software. 

I am using a RS-232 USB-to-serial interface from TRENDnet and installed the drivers from a CD that came with the cable.  After installing the drivers, I was able to find the drivers on the Device Interface connect to COM port 4.  I am also using an auxiliary power supply.  The TIU is completely removed from my layout and resting next to my desktop.

My next problem occurs when I try to update the remote unit.  I removed the stereo cable and connected the remote to the TIU using a 4 wire telephone headset cord. When I request the loader to make an update:

- the loader initially reports "TIU FOUND ON COM4 .... ESTABLISHING COMMUNICATIONS"

- then as I press and hold the on button and click on the "ok" screen button (while holding the remote on button", the Loader software reports that it is "Reconnecting to the Remote TIU on COM4".  I cycle through the instructions "release the power button, hold the power button" being instructed to do so in the matter of a few seconds between steps. 

Is this normal and perhaps I am giving up too soon?  Or, should the computer remain connected to the TIU during the entire process.

thanks,

Tom

The computer should remain connected once it gets connected.  The only issue I typically have with updating remotes using my Vantec USB <> Serial Adapter is my clamp doesn't get the button pressed properly and then I get the recycle message you describe.  I've used this on a variety of TIU versions, no problem at all.  I use the same one for updating my Legacy system.

Thanks for your reply.  Would you please clarify what you mean by "my clamp doesn't get the button pressed properly"?

Also, the software release in my remote that I am trying to update is version 2.10 which is ancient.  Could this cause a problem, trying to go from very old to new software on the remote?

Thanks, Tom

For updating the remote, you have to hold the button down for the entire update.  I don't know about you, but when I'm pressing a button, the 5-6 minutes seems more like 5-6 hours!  My solution is to use a small spring clamp to press the button on the remote for the update and I just lay it down on the table until the update completes.

I have only gone from version 3.x on my updates.  From what others have said, one issue with the 2.X update is you do have to do a reset on the remote and lose all the stuff stored for the update.  For 3.x and beyond, you can retain the stored engines, etc.  I don't know of any other reason it would not update.

GRJ's observation regarding the reset is correct.

I also use a clamp, but some clamps don't press the button far enough.

I updated an early version and i had no problem, i think you let the button go like John had said,if you let the button go you have to start all over again!

Alan

good luck

I use a tiny piece of a gummed rubber foot on the button to give the clamp enough "grip" to insure it closes the contact.  I normally get a bunch of remotes out of one foot.

Note the following regarding updating the DCS Remote:

• You must remove the 1/8" stereo jumper cable before powering on the TIU. This includes connecting anything to the TIU's USB port, since the TIU can get power from the USB port
• The DCS Remote must be powered off before commencing its software upgrade. Further, it must remain powered off all during the upgrade process. If it turns on at any time, the process will fail
• When instructed dot hold down the remote's power button, it must be held down until instructed to release it or, if not instructed to release it, until the upgrade is completed
• Between upgrades, either to the TIU or the DCS Remote, TIU power should be turned off and then back on again
• If upgrading the TIU or the remote from a version of DCS earlier than DCS 3.0 (i.e., from DCS 2.x) that device must be Factory Reset (TIU) or Reset (remote) at the completion of the upgrade.

This and a whole lot more is all in MTH’s “The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book at MTH's web store!

I use a tiny piece of a gummed rubber foot on the button to give the clamp enough "grip" to insure it closes the contact.  I normally get a bunch of remotes out of one foot

I had been using a small clamp I got at Lowes, and would occasionally have failure.  The griping feet were too large, and couldn't press some remotes' buttons far enough.  Marty Fitzhenry loaned me a Craftsman clamp, with a tiny foot, and so far that has worked; I bought my own at Sears.

Thanks to all that replied.  Through periodic power cycling I have been able to "find" and update two TIUs, an old one and a rev L.  But, I still cannot update my remote which has version 2.10 software.

• When I select the option to update the remote, the Loader software finds the TIU.  
• When I press and hold the power button on the remote (when asked to do so), the screen on the remote displays the "MTH DCS Remote, version 2.10, Patent Pending".
• A second later, the Loader asks me to release the button at which time the remote display lists an engine ready to command and the Loader immediately asks me to hold the button down again.
• The off-on power button cycle continues to repeat while the Loader says that it is trying to reconnect to the TIU

Feedback from those of you more knowledgeable than me suggests that the remote power button must be held down for 5-6 mins.  In my case, it's about 1 second.  And, the remote must be in the "off" state, mine displays the intro screen with version number, then switches to the first locomotive in the queue.

I will try to reset everything to the factory settings and try again.  Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

P.S. Barry - I do have your book which has been extremely helpful in setting up my DCS layout. In the event that you are considering another edition to your book, I thought that you might be interested in a DCS problem that led to my current issue.  A Proto 3.0 locomotive reported a problem with track signal strength on DCS circuit 1 (a signal strength test showed a ONE out of 10).  Proto 2.0 locomotives show a strength of 9-10 on the same simple loop (about 7 x 13 feet).  In talking to MTH tech support, I concluded that if I went to a newer TIU (version L), Proto 3 locos would run properly on the circuit 1 loop.  However, I have not been able to control circuit 1 of the new TIU version L with my older remote.  MTH told me that the software in my remote (version 2.10) must be updated to be able to control the TIU version L. 

Tom, turn off power to the TIU.  Turn off the remote (be sure batteries are fresh). Remove the stereo jumper cable you used to update the TIU. Connect the phone handset cable between remnote and TIU.* Start the loader program and click on the appropriate icon to "Send the code to the remote."  Follow the instructions precisely in order given.  When prompted to hold down the button, be sure to press it hard enough for it to work.

*Occasionally, one will encounter a handset cable that won't work.  Try another. 

ugh ... still no luck.

• stereo cables removed
• fresh batteries
• tried two different phone headset cables
• reset remote
• tried to reset TIU but the remote displayed "OUT OF RF RANGE"
• pressed and held down remote power button as instructed but was instructed to release the button a second latter and Loader app said that it was trying to reconnect to the TIU

Perhaps I have a bad remote unit.  Would really like to get back to running trains.  Any further suggestions to resolve the problem would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Tom

if you remote responded with out of range you might not have the remote set for address 0 it has to be  0 for tiu one. you can also connect your phone wire to the tiu and remote then your remote will talk directly with the teather connected and you will be able to reset your tiu back to 1.

Try that OK and good luck!

Alan

P.s. when you power up the tiu check how many led blinks you get on power up should be 1!

Tom,

When I press and hold the power button on the remote (when asked to do so), the screen on the remote displays the "MTH DCS Remote, version 2.10, Patent Pending".

It's most likely one of the following:

• The cable connecting the TIU and the remote is plugged into the TIU's AIU port instead of the Remote Input port
• The cable isn't a 4-conductor cable. A 2-conductor cable will not work
• The cable is otherwise defective
• There's a bent pin inside either the socket on the remote, the Remote Input port on the TIU or both, or two pins are touching.

This and a whole lot more is all in MTH’s “The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book at MTH's web store!

Alan,

if you remote responded with out of range you might not have the remote set for address 0 it has to be  0 for tiu one. you can also connect your phone wire to the tiu and remote then your remote will talk directly with the teather connected and you will be able to reset your tiu back to 1.

With all due respect, what are you talking about?

None of what you posted has anything to do with Tom's problem. Further, what you posted is complete nonsense.

thanks Alan,

I checked the remote address and it is set to "0" and the TIU is "1"

I connected the remote to the TIU via the hand set cable (tether) and got the same "OUT of RF RANGE" after requesting the TIU be reset followed by pressing "SELECT TO CONTINUE" with warning about items associated to the TIU will be lost.

Tom

Like Barry said, try a different handset cable, and make sure it has all four conductors.  Obviously, the suggestion to inspect the two connectors is a good one as well.

Tom,

I checked the remote address and it is set to "0" and the TIU is "1"

That was a compete waste of time.

I connected the remote to the TIU via the hand set cable (tether) and got the same "OUT of RF RANGE" after requesting the TIU be reset followed by pressing "SELECT TO CONTINUE" with warning about items associated to the TIU will be lost.

Also a complete waste of time as regards updating a TIU.

When you connect the phone cable to the remote, the TIU plug-in has the wires on the top, but the remote plug-in has the wires on the bottom. This would explain why the remote turns on (as it should not).  

I purchased a new headset cable from radio shack yesterday and double checked and it has 4 wires.  Then I tried an old handset cable only to discover that it only has two wires so I will go back to radio shack and buy second cable just to be sure that the problem doesn't stem from a faulty cable.

I double checked the pins on the remote interface and they appear to be properly aligned.

When things work properly,

1. What is displayed on the remote's screen when one presses and holds down the power button on the remote?  
2. And, how long does it normally take for the Loader app to request the button to be released?
3. Does the remote display change as the power button is being held down?

I am firmly pressing the button, should I force it further back without being concerned about damage??

thanks again for everyone's help.

Tom

Screen should remain blank.

"firmly" should be sufficient, it doesn't take that much pressure.  The remote should remain blank for the entire update.

Please call me on 423-710-2435

Double checked the orientation of the head set cable in the TIU and the contacts are properly aligned ... thought that was the solution, but sadly it was not.

What do you mean by headset cable?  Just want to make sure you're not using something other than a phone handset cord.  By any chance, you're not in Bakersfield, are you?

Number of remote and number of TIU have no effect.  I have 4 remotes and 4 TIUs, all with different addresses, and have no trouble updating any remote from any TIU.

GRJ, I have encountered clamps that, due to wide contact pads, did not press the button far enough.

I connected the remote to the TIU via the hand set cable (tether) and got the same "OUT of RF RANGE" after requesting the TIU be reset followed by pressing "SELECT TO CONTINUE" with warning about items associated to the TIU will be lost.

Also a complete waste of time as regards updating a TIU.

Barry, if one tethers a remote to a TIU and gets an out of range, doesn't that signify that either the cord or one of the sockets is bad?

I thought I addressed that.  Previously, I said...

I use a tiny piece of a gummed rubber foot on the button to give the clamp enough "grip" to insure it closes the contact.

RJR - Meant to say phone handset cord and I live in Cayucos about 2 hours from Bakersfield.  If you are ever in my area, you are welcome to stop by and see my layout project in my garage (couldn't convince my wife that inside the house would be a better choice).  tom-jasper@charter.net

I'm actually in Bakersfield today, and if you were close I'd have swung by to help, but the wife and I are driving around the US to visit scattered relatives, and I can't take 4 hours off for a round trip to Cayucos.

If you have a test meter, I suggest setting it to measure ohms and check the continuity for each of the 4 prongs on each end.  That's what I'd do at this point.  Be sure to look into the sockets in TIU & remote to be sure the contact fingers are properly aligned.

Tom,

1. What is displayed on the remote's screen when one presses and holds down the power button on the remote?  

Nothing, and it should stay that way.

1. And, how long does it normally take for the Loader app to request the button to be released?

Initially, a second or so. Once it actually starts updating, 5 or 6 minutes.

1. Does the remote display change as the power button is being held down?

No, it stays blank.

Robert,

 if one tethers a remote to a TIU and gets an out of range, doesn't that signify that either the cord or one of the sockets is bad?

Possibly, although there are multiple reasons why this could happen.

Tom, also check to make sure that in handling the TIU, the serial cable from the computer has not come unseated.

If you are using the Rev L TIU, try using a USB cable instead of the USB>serial cable, or vice versa.  DO be aware that if using the USB cable, (1) TIU will get adequate power for updating through the USB cab  le, so there is no need for another power supply; and (2) to recycle (power off-power on) the TIU, the USB must be unplugged, which may cause the computer to not find the USB connection for awhile.  I have a computer that takes awhile to recognize a new connection.

okay, i am making progress but have one hurdle remaining.

I cleaned the contacts for my remote (although they appeared to be like new) and I purchased a new telephone handset cable.  Once I installed the new cable from Home Depot to replace the new cable from Radio Shack, the screen on the remote did not display a message (i.e.; that it was turning on) when I pressed and held the power button.  This was and is very encouraging. 

But, within 2 seconds of starting the process, the Loader program asked me to release the button, then a second later it asks be to press and hold the power button.  I went through this cycle for about 50 times at which point I conclude it is not working.

I have attached two screen shots that show the Loader program asking me to press and hold the power button and then to release it.  Would appreciate any feedback on whether the information being displayed by the loader program is as it should be.  The message that the Loader program was reconnecting to the TIU is troubling, but that may be normal.

Is it possible that going from the remote software 2.10 to the current version (4?) indeed takes an incredible amount of 1-2 second cycles?  Is there an intermediate software load between 2.10 and the current version that I should try?

Thanks again for any suggestions.

Tom

Tom, are you using a clamp or your finger to hold the button?  Try the finger if you're using a clamp.  I kept encountering this at York in April, and Marty Fitzhenry attributed this to my clamp's design.

The 1-2 second cycles would not be related to version, as far as I know.

I am using my finger.  If i needed to hold the power button for more than a second or two I would consider using a clamp.

when i upgraded my remote i had to hold the button hard for 5 or 6 minutes with my finger and worked OK. i think your not holding the button down while downloading!

Alan

Home depot has a clamp that is wide enough to hold the button down and rest on the remote on all sides of the button. I have used this for about 10 years. 

Gerald,

Home depot has a clamp that is wide enough to hold the button down and rest on the remote on all sides of the button. I have used this for about 10 years. 

If it's the black one with orange highlights, I've also been using it for about 10 years or so. Mine came in a 3-pack, if I recall correctly.

Those are the ones.