DIESEL SWITCHER LOCOMOTIVES-I'm Going NUTS!-SOLVED(for now)

Are the switchers stalling over switches, or does it happen on normal track as well?  if it is just on the switches, it may be that your rollers are falling into dead spots over the frogs, or traction tires are preventing contact on the powered side of a non-derailing section for the switch.  The larger, main line engines are less likely to have these problems as they have larger wheelbases, more contact with the rails, and an over all larger electrical foot print.  

If this turns out to be the problem, you may have to adjust your track plan to leave more space between back to back switches, or come up with some means of expanding the pick-up points on the engine. 

JGL

EDIT:  There are also a lot of issues reported of late on the switches themselves having poor internal connections that can be fixed by soldering the internal press-fit connections.  GunRunnerJohn has a nice post about this problem and his fixes that you can find looking back through the last few days.  

To Nick 

Please post track plan .  

How many power feeders do you have? 

The nice thing about Fasttrack is you can have a loop one minute & have a switching layout the next ! 

Hello, I have six Lionel S-2's both TMCC and Legacy. The Legacy units have 4 pick up rollers and my TMCC units have 2. The Legacy locos are far more reliable at slow speeds on switches than the TMCC locos with 2 rollers. I also have an Atlas MP-15 and although it has four rollers, it is a little finicky in spots.

Guys,I don't think the problem is necessarily limited to the Fastrak turnouts.They fail on the main lines just as frequently.It is when you move slow and reversing directions.I don't have a track plan.I can draw one out and post it.I have #14 feeders about every 5-6 ft.I also have feeders on my sidings.Also I noticed on the Atlas MP-15's it takes about 3-5 full revolutions on the Legacy remote to get the Locomotive moving.I am operating on "L" for Low momentum at the bottom.Thanks again.Nick

Nick, what power supply are you using?  If it's a zw or similar, do you have the voltage around 18vac or is it lower?

lf lower that may be why they won't run at slow speed.

BOB running two PW ZW's in parallel W fast blow breakers.Good question.I keep all four throttles backed off just a little from full.I will measure my track voltage with my OHM Meter.Nick

Have had some problems with engines like this I added a dummy engine; wired the power pickups from both engines together and moved the rear electro coupler from the powered engine to the rear of the dummy. Have them permanently hooked together and is very reliable with 2 engines picking up power.

kj356 posted:

Have had some problems with engines like this I added a dummy engine; wired the power pickups from both engines together and moved the rear electro coupler from the powered engine to the rear of the dummy. Have them permanently hooked together and is very reliable with 2 engines picking up power.

Kj,I could lash up the two MP-15's.Do you think that would be like doing the same thing?Nick

rockstars1989 posted:

Guys,I don't think the problem is necessarily limited to the Fastrak turnouts.They fail on the main lines just as frequently.It is when you move slow and reversing directions.I don't have a track plan.I can draw one out and post it.I have #14 feeders about every 5-6 ft.I also have feeders on my sidings.Also I noticed on the Atlas MP-15's it takes about 3-5 full revolutions on the Legacy remote to get the Locomotive moving.I am operating on "L" for Low momentum at the bottom.Thanks again.Nick

While it seems unlikely to me that all three engines have similar failures at the same time, have you checked to make sure the pick-up rollers are making good contact?  good spring tension, wires are securely attached, etc.  If it is mostly when changing direction it may be that a worn contact point somewhere is briefly separating somewhere when the engine torques in the opposite direction.  

Thanks Nick for letting us come over today. It was a great time seeing your layout. But to add to this that might help on your layouts fastrack switches, is that I noticed as your Lionel Clintchfield Challenger was running, the tenders sound was cutting in and out. So wonder if it might be something with the switches. Also check to see if your Legacy Controller's red LED light is blinking. What might also cause this is because of Legacy signal loss. So see if checking the wires, checking the antenna on the Legacy Base is tightly attached to the base and also the fastrack switches. Also see if the rollers on the tender and the switcher rollers might not contact on the middle rail of the switch, right where the roller would hit the blank spot of the rail where there's no rail, if you know what I mean. Sometimes certain rollers on certain tenders and engines might cause it to stop. Also try and see if the engines and tenders have 9 volt batteries. That way if you had a battery the sound stays and the engine might not stop on the track or switch. I hope I could help some. That's why I noticed your Challenger while we were there, the sound was cutting in and out.  By the way, went through my pictures I took of your layout and took a picture of Marley the dog and the way it came out, she looked like she was smiling. But either way, me, my dad and my sister enjoyed seeing your layout and it was a good time.  Thank you Nick & Janet.        Tom Elesh Jr.

wrawroacx posted:

Thanks Nick for letting us come over today. It was a great time seeing your layout. But to add to this that might help on your layouts fastrack switches, is that I noticed as your Lionel Clintchfield Challenger was running, the tenders sound was cutting in and out. So wonder if it might be something with the switches. Also check to see if your Legacy Controller's red LED light is blinking. What might also cause this is because of Legacy signal loss. So see if checking the wires, checking the antenna on the Legacy Base is tightly attached to the base and also the fastrack switches. Also see if the rollers on the tender and the switcher rollers might not contact on the middle rail of the switch, right where the roller would hit the blank spot of the rail where there's no rail, if you know what I mean. Sometimes certain rollers on certain tenders and engines might cause it to stop. Also try and see if the engines and tenders have 9 volt batteries. That way if you had a battery the sound stays and the engine might not stop on the track or switch. I hope I could help some. That's why I noticed your Challenger while we were there, the sound was cutting in and out.  By the way, went through my pictures I took of your layout and took a picture of Marley the dog and the way it came out, she looked like she was smiling. But either way, me, my dad and my sister enjoyed seeing your layout and it was a good time.  Thank you Nick & Janet.        Tom Elesh Jr.

Tom Jr…I am going to give some serious attention to the things you brought up.My Challenger has done that since I bought it.Will check the 9v battery. Thanks for making the trip out.We enjoyed having you guys,You and your Dad are great and your sister is a Doll.I will keep in touch.Nick

I hate to throw sand on this fire, but the 9V battery is ONLY there to keep Railsounds alive during short power interruptions. It in NO way powers the R2LC or motor driver circuitry.

Since 3 different locos (+ the Challenger) from 2 different manufacturers all exhibit random power loss, I still have to suspect dirty track and wheels along with the power rollers. Try some 91% isopropyl alcohol on a rag and thoroughly clean the rails along with drive wheels/tender wheels/power pickups.

That many locos should not have all the same symptoms without a common cause which is likely dirty track. Even try lightly cleaning the rail tops with a Scotchbrite pad prior to the alcohol wipe.

D&H 65 posted:

I hate to throw sand on this fire, but the 9V battery is ONLY there to keep Railsounds alive during short power interruptions. It in NO way powers the R2LC or motor driver circuitry.

Since 3 different locos (+ the Challenger) from 2 different manufacturers all exhibit random power loss, I still have to suspect dirty track and wheels along with the power rollers. Try some 91% isopropyl alcohol on a rag and thoroughly clean the rails along with drive wheels/tender wheels/power pickups.

 

That many locos should not have all the same symptoms without a common cause which is likely dirty track. Even try lightly cleaning the rail tops with a Scotchbrite pad prior to the alcohol wipe.

D&H,I will do what you said.Yes my Challenger runs perfect but the sounds cut out here and there.Nick

I found when track been clean l add a drop of Bachman e-z lube conductive contact lube to the roller and maybe one drop on the center rail where the problem is. Dry contact can cause problems on any electrical contact or plug.

What are you cleaning your track with Nick? You say you clean it and it lasts a little while and then the problems return.

I'll second the 91% alcohol. D&H reccommends a scotch brite pad, I'll go a step further and recommend a mildly abrasive block, either the abrasive eraser in Lionels maintenance kit, or a brite boy block.

I've found on occasion  the oxidation on the top of the rails can be tough to remove with a liquid cleaner alone. A scrubbing with Lionels abrasive eraser and then a pass with a paper towel with 91% isopropyl wil get ALL of the crud off.

 The best slow speed engine I've seen is the new Legacy Pennsy 0-6-0. Lionel ditched the wireless tether on this one. The engine and tender are now linked together giving each 4 combined rollers as well as all the wheels linked together. The beauty of the Legacy switchers is that they can run so slow. It kind of loses the effect if they constantly stall. My 0-8-0 was somewhat of a disappointment at first. Ran super slow but constantly stalled. Switching the momentum to low helped some. It sometimes would stall even on a piece of straight track. A slight nudge sideways and it would re awaken. Certainly couldn't be the rollers. Finally figured it had to be the wheels not contacting the outside rails well enough.  2 with traction tires, 2 are blind. That only leaves 2 left. I ended up using some flexible stranded wire and linked the chassis' together using the cab and tender shell screws. The engine stays on the layout so sepperatting the two isn't an issue. The engine now seems to perform much better. Only very rarely does it stall.

RickO posted:

What are you cleaning your track with Nick? You say you clean it and it lasts a little while and then the problems return.

I'll second the 91% alcohol. D&H reccommends a scotch brite pad, I'll go a step further and recommend a mildly abrasive block, either the abrasive eraser in Lionels maintenance kit, or a brite boy block.

I've found on occasion  the oxidation on the top of the rails can be tough to remove with a liquid cleaner alone. A scrubbing with Lionels abrasive eraser and then a pass with a paper towel with 91% isopropyl wil get ALL of the crud off.

RickO I just spray a little 50/50 mix of water and rubbing alcohol on a terrycloth rag for the track and the same for the Locomotive.This week I am going to go over the whole layout with full alcohol and a scotch pad.Nick

Perhaps you have some bad track joints. I don't have any fastrack, but I thought I read on this forum that there are sometimes issues with the center rail joints becoming loose. I do know from my experience with MTH realtrax that joints sometimes work loose. What I found is when a loco would stall on a straight or even a curve, leave the power alone and put your ear close to the track and silence all background noise. I could actually hear a slight "sizzling" noise. That was my loose connection. This worked for me. Good luck.

Nick; Whatever you do, please ditch the 50/50 water/alcohol mix. Water and steel rails is a disaster waiting to happen-it leads to rust and rust is an insulator.

Gently wipe the tops of your rails with some Scotchbrite pad followed by a 91% alcohol wipe-down with a rag. I bet your performance improves markedly.

Also check the locomotive wheels for signs of any rust and clean those as well minus the water.

D&H 65 posted:

Nick; Whatever you do, please ditch the 50/50 water/alcohol mix. Water and steel rails is a disaster waiting to happen-it leads to rust and rust is an insulator.

Gently wipe the tops of your rails with some Scotchbrite pad followed by a 91% alcohol wipe-down with a rag. I bet your performance improves markedly.

Also check the locomotive wheels for signs of any rust and clean those as well minus the water.

D&H yea I guess I never thought of that.Will do.Nick

EVERYONE….Spent the whole morning in the train room.

ENGINES:

First I put my switcher locomotives on the cradle.The pickups were shiny clean.As for the non traction wheels,they were horrible.They all have some kind of black oxidized greasy dirty residue on them.So using a couple of clip leads I ran them upside down in the cradle and held an abrasive pad against them with straight alcohol until they were shiny.In the past I only cleaned them with a rag.Sprayed all the wheels with contact cleaner and blew them out with by blow gun.

TRACK:

The track was in OK condition but needed cleaning(but I always get a black rag no matter how often I clean it)I used a cloth rag AND an abrasive pad and straight Alcohol.Also I found a couple of spots where the switchers stall for sure every time.Checked the spot (s)with my ohm meter and found continuity problems.I tack soldered the joints on the side of the rails with my gun.

RESULTS:

I can't get over the difference.The response on my Atlas Engines is imediate now.I Haven't had any stalling,I am almost certain that I will find other spots and when I do I will check for continuity and hit it with my gun.

THANKS for all the suggestions.Nick

Nick: Glad to hear all the suggestions helped you get back to running trains instead of aggravating yourself....

glad you are back up and running. FT joints can sometimes lose electrical connection.