difficulty of DCS operation in Ross yard

Wally,

You need to describe exactly how you wired the yard, starting at the output of the TIU. Don't omit anything.

If you have a spare tiu channel, hook the yard up to it, you can even use the same power supply and the var channels can be set to fixed mode just like fixed 1 &2.

I know this doesn't explain what happened but one loose connection  can cause havoc.

 Each channel has it's own signal generator,   The more the better.

Gregg:  Do I just tap into the terminal strip from fixed output two where fixed output one is located?

Wally

No.  For the new 8 track yard you'll need  another terminal block to use with the spare channel. However you can use the same power supply.

Ex  power from Fixed 1 IN can be jumpered over to  Fixed 2 IN.

Fixed 2 out would go to the new terminal block and eventually the new  8 track yard.  It may seem like a little work but well worth it, You also may find a slight improvement  with the rest of  the  layout.

Perhaps a magic bulb on the new terminal block and maybe a lighted bumper as well on  some of the yard  track (if they're dead enders.)   

.

Barry: from ZW A-U set at 18V (but measures less) to 10a quick acting glass fuse to fixed input 1 to terminal strip (four feeds to mainline track); newly laid Gargraves replacing ~6ft of O tubular in mainline w/ center rail power feed; mainline Ross switch here + Ross siding switch added parallel to mainline w/ center rail power feed (center rail); short section Gargraves to next switch which goes to yard via 6ft Gargraves (both center and outside rail w/ power feed just beyond yard-siding switch); 8-track Ross yard with Gargraves which curve 90º at different radii to be "parallel"; ea track insulated with Ross nylon center pin and re-powered via an illuminated 12V DC rocker switch (r. switch lighted via outer rail common connection at yard terminal strip); Ross switches powered remotely (3ft to 8ft feed wire) by 14V from Type O 75W via terminal strip.  DCS Remote works to start up engines while on mainline but not on Gargraves beyond mainline (siding & yard).

In general: 12' X 24' mainline over-n- under which works fine DCS-wise; added a siding out front parallel to mainline; added left end of layout new platform and an 8-track Ross switch yard (Gargraves go straight back from switches and then curve along wall); added new control area in front of new platform addition (yard); TIU is less than 20ft away from yard/controls.

Thanks a bunch for listening.

Wally

Gregg: So I power the new additions (siding & yard) via the Fixed Output 2, replacing the power feed from Output 1? Also, wouldn't I need lighted bumpers on all yard tracks since all but one track will be dead at any given time of operation? Or, could one magic lightbulb be located on the Gargraves going into the yard? (and the siding). I'm going to wait to hear from Barry before I redo the wiring. Thanks so far.

Wally

You do that. good luck.

Wally, 

from ZW A-U set at 18V (but measures less) to 10a quick acting glass fuse to fixed input 1 to terminal strip (four feeds to mainline track); newly laid Gargraves replacing ~6ft of O tubular in mainline w/ center rail power feed; mainline Ross switch here + Ross siding switch added parallel to mainline w/ center rail power feed (center rail); short section Gargraves to next switch which goes to yard via 6ft Gargraves (both center and outside rail w/ power feed just beyond yard-siding switch); 8-track Ross yard with Gargraves which curve 90º at different radii to be "parallel"; ea track insulated with Ross nylon center pin and re-powered via an illuminated 12V DC rocker switch (r. switch lighted via outer rail common connection at yard terminal strip); Ross switches powered remotely (3ft to 8ft feed wire) by 14V from Type O 75W via terminal strip.  DCS Remote works to start up engines while on mainline but not on Gargraves beyond mainline (siding & yard).

If I understand you correctly, you're jumpering the connections from one siding track to the next. If so, this is why you're DCS signal is being degraded.

To correct this, either connect each track siding to it separate connection on the terminal block or use a separate terminal block, from a new TIU channel, to connect each siding separately.

Wally,, i'm having trouble following your description, but I can tell you how I did it:  Each siding is insulated at the track switch, making it a separate block.  The section from main line to all of those insulators is a single block.  Output red from TIU goes to a panel right near the tiu, where there is a toggle for each of those blocks.  One 14-gauge lead goes from each of thos toggles directly to one block, with one connection to the center rail.  No problems.

Wally,

Somewhere in illuminated rocker switches a ground or neutral is needed for illumination.

When you are only using the switch to break continuity for the hot, the 12vdc ground  for the light may be shunting the signal.

Just a guess.

Unplug the light 12vDC supply and test it for DCS signal.

It's pretty simple. I believe Wally  has tooo much track on one channel for a great dcs signal.

The fix .. add another tiu channel , the new yard seems the place to do it.  You must have an idea which feeders go to yard. Put the new terminal block right beside the other one if it'll help save running wires,  but use a new tiu channel to feed the new  terminal block.

Yes it would seem logical that each dead end track would need it's own lighted bumper but there's nothing logical about dcs when it comes to track signal. you might not need any.

Supplementing what I said above, I do use a separate TIU channel for each yard, with 10 or so blocks on each.

The TUI watchdog signal seems to be the problem.  If an engine is on the main line it will receive the watchdog signal when that output is powered up.  The engine will then startup in DCS mode, and travel under control from the remote any where on the layout, or into the yard.  But if the engine is in the yard, and a switch for power is thrown after the power has been applied to the channel of the TIU, the watchdog signal has turned off, and the engine will start up in conventional mode, with no control from the remote.

Paul,

the watchdog signal has turned off, and the engine will start up in conventional mode, with no control from the remote

Just select the engine and press Startup or Shut Down.

This and a whole lot more is all in“The DCS Companion 3rd Edition", available for purchase  from many fine OGR advertisers and forum sponsors, or as an eBook or a printed book.

Thanks Barry, Gregg, RJR, Moonman, ChooChooPaul;  Success! All eight yard tracks and the siding are working. The secret seemed to be adding the separate feed to the yard and the siding from TIU FIXED OUT 2. Illuminated rocker switches have no deterrent effect (someone suggested checking that). I had a jumper from the mainline to the siding via a rocker switch; when I removed that jumper and wired it to the new OUT 2 from that terminal strip, even my Premier GE Evol that never started up while there, now works fine. Although sometimes I have to go to READ to get an engine to receive the remote signal and start up (Premier NYC J1e is the worst). I still don't understand all this stuff but I guess, as some of you have suggested, the wireless signal strength has been strengthened.

I need to go into my two remotes and erase everything (duplicates, bare numbers, etc.) and reinstall all engines in order of my yard placement. I believe I read the procedure in the MTH manual as well as Barry's book.

An observation- my ZW only puts out 16V max. Does that suggest some maintenance is needed? Another observation: my small woodshop area (bandsaw, chop saw, grinder, small belt sander and parts, etc.) is only a few feet from my trains; with all those windings, is there possible interference?

Been a grind but feels good that I just might be ready for our open house visit of my RR club next week (I'm president, so&hellip. 

Thanks a bunch, Cho Cho Wally

Thanks for the update Wally.  It's nice to know the results and not left hanging.

The ZW needs attention.  Unplug it.  Remove the 4 screws on top and do a visual check. 

Look for rollers:  are any so worn that the holding bracket scrapes the coils? (Bad, can do permanent damage).

When you move the handles up, do the arms move the rollers all the way across the coil?

Look at the power cord.  Does it appear to be broken or insulation cracked?  Are you sure you're getting 115-120 volts at the receptacle when transformer is plugged in and running?

With no wires connected to the ZW, what voltages do you read on all 4 outputs?  If 20, you've a short in the layout.

If voltage drops under a load of, say 5-7 amps, the contacts in the breaker could be bad.

You do not need to go into 2 remotes.  Just do one.  Then save it to a PC using the loader program, and then download what you saved to the second remote.  Instructions are on the screen of the loader program.  Beauty of doing this is that you ever have to reset a remote, you can restore it instead of having to re-add everything, plus all remotes will be identical in settings and softkeys.

Wally,

    Your ZW definitely needs some attention, however you DCS signal has nothing to due with that particular problem, go back and set up your Track drops as Barry advised, and you will eliminate your DCS signal problem.  

PCRR/Dave

For what it's worth.... If you're going  to  delete  all your  engines so to speak and start  over , Reset the remote(s) as a first step,,, This will delete everything and give you a clean slate to start over and edit the engine's addresses  to whatever you want.

Adding engines... Find a good spot with  a perfect dcs signal.  add  an  engine here with no other engines receiving power anywhere on the layout.  

Once the engines has  added,  shut down layout power for 30 seconds or so, power the layout back up and see if the engine will start up. It should .

 Having said that, if you decide you want to edit the engine's address, Go ahead with the EDIT address command under the engine set up menu,,,,,  The test now is the will the engine remember the new address?

So back to power down layout again  for 30 seconds. This time the engine should start up with the new edited address. If successful  , now would be a good time to add the engine to the second remote, (Yes I can hear RJR  in the background) It should  add to the new edited address as well. Each remote must have the same ID for the engine.

You're going to have to do this with each engine that you have to add.

Engine's ID stick with the engine unless factory reset ,edited or ID is  taken by another engine when trying to add,  In this case the engine adds to the lowest available ID.

We have  8 remotes and line them up near the programming track and start adding making sure the engine added has the same ID in each remote... It goes by quickly. (I can still hear RJR screaming at me)

  It's  a  great point but not all of us  have a back up computer at the layout..   (going to get one  though)  Getting the engine added with correct names and ID  was my main point.

Adding to second remote at layout is just confirming the engines  status.   (id name)

Just an FYI...

It's not necessary to turn off power to the entire layout to verify that an engine remembers its DCS ID#. All that needs to be done is to turn off power to the track upon which the engine is residing for the requisite 20 seconds or so.

Gregg, I don't have a computer at the layout either.  I do have an old Rev G TIU that I use on the workbench.  I bring that and the remotes to my laptop.  If I have to upgrade TIU software, I bring the laptop to the layout.  My wife has an old small netbook, that is very light & small, albeit slowwwww.

Barry Broskowitz posted:

Just an FYI...

It's not necessary to turn off power to the entire layout to verify that an engine remembers its DCS ID#. All that needs to be done is to turn off power to the track upon which the engine is residing for the requisite 20 seconds or so.

Yep that'll work as well.. The important part is verifying  the iD or new edited  ID sticks with the engine.  .  else trouble .   

IMHO...   An edited  engine  ID  is a really good way to verify the engine's  battery is up to the job.

Gregg,

IMHO...   An edited  engine  ID  is a really good way to verify the engine's  battery is up to the job.

Agreed!

Wally,

   Nice going with your rewiring, looks like you got your problem solved, remember to replace your P2 engines batteries with BCR's as the Battery needs replacing, and you should be fine for longevity running thru your yards.  

PCRR/Dave

Yea Dave,  I have some BCRs on hand to do that. Some of my newer engines are the lower voltage (2.7?), so I guess I need some BCR2s.  Thanks

   Wally