Do New Lionel Steam Locomotives Offer Conversion to 2 Rail Like The Older M.T.H. Locomotives?

No, and no.

Thank you for the reply Hot Water. I know they don't offer the same scale fidelity as a true 2 rail O scale locomotive, but it is too bad because for the most part they are nice and available.

Any three-rail locomotive can be converted to two-rail.  It's just a question of what you are willing to spend for that conversion.  MTH had an easy system of closer to scale flanged wheels, removable 3rd rail pickups, and a switch to go from AC to DC.  The traditional method would be to have someone turn the wheels so reduce the flange depth and swap out the electronics for DCC operation.  Unfortunately, those with the skill to use a lathe is shrinking.

Very good point Jonathan.  I guess I need to shift gears to that mindset. 

My friend has a CNC lathe, I still love woodworking and acrylic fabrication, but my trade now is I am an electrical assembler.  I build things using many different electrical parts.  I have an understanding of converting voltage types etc.  Probably not beyond my capabilities to learn how to convert something.  If I had an engineered drawing, I could probably figure out what tool to make to turn the wheels down for 2 rail operation.

I really appreciate your response.     

Like Johnathan said. Anything can be done if you want to pay. Certainly not the sexiest of locos but pretty good runners. You can always add brass details. The older Lionel Moguls and Consolidaions would be good candidates. You might get a good buy on them seeing they aren’t Legacy and you would be adding DCC anyways. These are built somewhat like a 2 rail engine. Remove a bottom plate and all the axles can be removed. Lot easier than pressing everything apart. Someone with machine shop skills can probably turn new rims with correct scale flanges and insulate them for a reasonable price.
Maybe not exciting as far as motive power. But they would go around a curve that wouldn’t require a gymnasium.

Since we are on the subject of converting 3 rail to 2 rail, does anyone know who still does it and what they charge?

Thanks,

Ed

When I retire from the day job, I will be offering these services and more. Right now it’s very difficult to juggle the jobs I do have with a 50 hour work week,…….when all of this goes down, I’ll be on here, and become a sponsor of the forum…..should be music to Alan Arnold’s ears anyways….😉

Pat

Just a short comment: check out Battery Powered Remote Control (BPRC); it might be an easier and less costly way of shifting from 3-rail to 2-rail operation.

Chuck

@PRR1950 posted:

Just a short comment: check out Battery Powered Remote Control (BPRC); it might be an easier and less costly way of shifting from 3-rail to 2-rail operation.

Chuck

That is OK for the control system, but the bigger issue would still be those huge 3-Rail wheel flanges and non insulated wheel-to-axle mounts.

@harmonyards posted:

When I retire from the day job, I will be offering these services and more. Right now it’s very difficult to juggle the jobs I do have with a 50 hour work week,…….when all of this goes down, I’ll be on here, and become a sponsor of the forum…..should be music to Alan Arnold’s ears anyways….😉

Pat

This is great news; good for you Pat! 👍

Mark in Oregon

Here in the UK we do not have ... gulp ... Lionel. The 'norm' is 2-rail.  HOWEVER, we do have the scale difference of about 10% (1:43.5 vs 1:48).  So for example a UK 2'8" wheel (32") measures up a touch less than a Nth Am 36".

Steam loco wheels are available from a few suppliers and I've recently seen a US Hobbies 2-8-0 and Sunset 4-4-2 converted.  If you carry digital calipers around, or count spokes you may not be happy, but....

What diameter wheels on some favouri ... sorry, favorites do you have in mind?

Jason

@Jason Dickie posted:

Here in the UK we do not have ... gulp ... Lionel. ...

http://www.lccuk.org.uk/ and https://traincollectors.co.uk/

At the time, MTH 3/2 units/engines/locomotives, came ready in the box for the conversion.   Remove the third rail contact(s), and the left/right, was set to two rail.  The Premier Russian decapod was 3/2. The front tender truck was one rail, the rear tender truck was the other rail.   Edit/Add:  An interesting production decision that eliminated two completely different build sequences. 

This file.

Going back a few posts - Lionel has sort of breached the true scale line.  I have a Lionel FEF converted to 2-rail, and it puts the USH version parked next to it to shame, from a detail point of view.  I did have the 4-12-2 as well, and considered 2-railing that, but the sand dome was inaccurate, and I did not feel like fixing that.  Otherwise, detail was superb, and as far as I could tell it was true to scale in all dimensions except flanges and track width.

Cheapest is to find used USH drivers, and buy the smaller wheelsets from NWSL.  Change out the gears and sell the electronics - I usually get a hundred bucks for TMCC/Legacy.

As for machining driver tires, I do it all the time with ordinary lathe tools contoured by eyeball.  I cannot do it commercially; life is simply too short for such mind-numbing activity.  Some tire sizes are available from Stevenson Preservation.

My brother wanted to be a machine shop, so I taught him how to do O Scale drivers.  He charged $80/axle, had plenty of work, and could not make a profit after paying rent and the electric bill, let alone amortizing the machine tools (mostly a retirement hobby).  So when Pat retires, if he is under, say, $125/axle, jump on it!  He will be working basically for free.

The below FEF has a Lobaugh main frame and USH drivers - I will some day power it with an NWSL Mod 0.6 and Pittman.  Those are my side rods, and everything else you see except wheels and couplers is genuine Lionel.

I suppose I could add the USH for comparison:

I should get a better photo - this thing is now a venerable antique!

Let me also mention the Lionel PA - plastic, of course, but the detail and overall appearance is as good as the very finest brass imports.  The trucks and wheels are, of course, designed for three rail, and we found the best way to go 2-rail was to find CLW or Overland power trucks, shorten the fuel tank slightly, and lower the body.  But what a beautiful body!

No, I do not own one - plastic Diesels are a bit out of my sphere of interest.  But if you want scale models for relative cheap, and can do your own work, Lionel and MTH offer fertile ground!  And in the olden days you could get a string of K-Line 21" cars to go behind them for $75 each, brand new!  Them days are gone forever!

@Classy Woods, LLC posted:

With my train room only being 15' X 17' I am willing to accept certain concessions.  I was wondering do new Lionel steam locomotives offer the 3 to 2 rail conversion like some of the M.T.H locomotives did?  And if so, would they run on DCC?

MTH also supports DCC as part of Proto 3.0 (and I think 2.0 as well). To go from three rail to 2 rail (talking engines here)

1)You get rid of the contact roller, and you have to insulate one side of the axles from the frame to be the 'hot' rail.

2)If planning to use DCC, you would need to remove the exiting control boards (other than MTH ones that support DCC, assuming this is not an MTH 3 to 2 engine) and wire in the DCC/Sound decoder to the motor (which likely is a DC can motor). I assume the DCC signal comes through the "hot" axle.

3)You would need to either replace the drive wheels and the like with more scale ones or turn them.

4)If you want more prototype coupling, you will want to body mount Kadee or other prototype couplers , removing the ones based in the trucks that most 3 rail uses.

It isn't impossible but it isn't a simple project either.

@Hot Water posted:

That is OK for the control system, but the bigger issue would still be those huge 3-Rail wheel flanges and non insulated wheel-to-axle mounts.

If you are doing battery control then the insulated wheel set is not a problem, since the power and ground is strictly in the engine , from motor to speed control to battery.

@bob2 posted:

I suppose I could add the USH for comparison:

I should get a better photo - this thing is now a venerable antique!

Both beautiful, Bob, but...

I zoomed in as much as I could (and maybe it's the photos) but I think the USH drivers have..."cleaner" looking castings (?) What do you think?

Mark in Oregon

@bigkid posted:

If you are doing battery control then the insulated wheel set is not a problem, since the power and ground is strictly in the engine , from motor to speed control to battery.

Echoing what Jack said, I thought the whole idea of going 2 rail was for more scale fidelity, ie; no great big huge flanges, no blind drivers, etc., etc., …..if keeping  a 3 rail locomotive with big gangly flanges, and inappropriately sized pilot wheels, etc, is acceptable with battery power, then just rip up the middle rail and run them ….correct me if I’m wrong, most 2 rail guys want scale rail, and scale sized flanges and wheels, ……no??…

Pat

@bob2 posted:

Going back a few posts - Lionel has sort of breached the true scale line.  I have a Lionel FEF converted to 2-rail, and it puts the USH version parked next to it to shame, from a detail point of view.  I did have the 4-12-2 as well, and considered 2-railing that, but the sand dome was inaccurate, and I did not feel like fixing that.  Otherwise, detail was superb, and as far as I could tell it was true to scale in all dimensions except flanges and track width.

Cheapest is to find used USH drivers, and buy the smaller wheelsets from NWSL.  Change out the gears and sell the electronics - I usually get a hundred bucks for TMCC/Legacy.

As for machining driver tires, I do it all the time with ordinary lathe tools contoured by eyeball.  I cannot do it commercially; life is simply too short for such mind-numbing activity.  Some tire sizes are available from Stevenson Preservation.

My brother wanted to be a machine shop, so I taught him how to do O Scale drivers.  He charged $80/axle, had plenty of work, and could not make a profit after paying rent and the electric bill, let alone amortizing the machine tools (mostly a retirement hobby).  So when Pat retires, if he is under, say, $125/axle, jump on it!  He will be working basically for free.

The below FEF has a Lobaugh main frame and USH drivers - I will some day power it with an NWSL Mod 0.6 and Pittman.  Those are my side rods, and everything else you see except wheels and couplers is genuine Lionel.

I just asked myself Bob, and the conclusion is I will not be working for free,….😉…it’ll be an hourly charge based on all the above factors you mentioned with your brother,….except the rent part, ….my joint is bought & paid for ….

Pat

I was of course tongue in cheek - but the 2-railing business is not mass production - you will find that setup and having the right steel tube laying around will reduce your total time to around a couple hours per driver.  You get faster as you do more of the same size and material.

Strum - both driver sets are USH.  I sold the lionel frame, drivers, and side rods.  The Lionel drivers were beautiful, but I took the easy way out.

@bob2 posted:

I was of course tongue in cheek - but the 2-railing business is not mass production - you will find that setup and having the right steel tube laying around will reduce your total time to around a couple hours per driver.  You get faster as you do more of the same size and material.

Strum - both driver sets are USH.  I sold the lionel frame, drivers, and side rods.  The Lionel drivers were beautiful, but I took the easy way out.

I know you were Bob, ….I was being cheeky back…but seriously, it’ll be a charge by the hour. If I have to source materials, that’s on the clock, I’m beginning now to stock up on supplies, …..tools and machines I already have, and added some new machines……I’ve done this for 37 years in the automotive restoration business, so I’m no stranger to custom work,….it just has to be spelled out to the consumer, so they know where their dollars go, and they get the product they asked for ( but always better than what they expected ) …..the fella that did the scenery on my layout ( I hate scenery work ) spelled out every dollar, where it went, and why,…..it was simple, explained well, and I was happy to pay …….

Pat

I would take the US Hobbies FEF any day over the Lionel but that’s my bias.  If you really want a detailed FEF, the Sunset and Key examples are incredible.

I have converted many diesels.  Joe Foehrkolb would do the trucks for me, then I would finish it; cutting the frame in half so I did not have to use wipers. Cutting the frame in half was Joe’s idea and worked great. That’s the plus about plastic body shells-it does not conduct.  I did convert a couple sets of trucks on my own based on the published technique of John Sethian. It was pretty easy but time consuming without a milling machine.

Pat, I definitely would like to have my Lionel mogul converted to 2-rail. Keep me up to date when the shop opens.  Still have more 3-rail boards to send you.

Rob

Depending on how they modify the tooling you might still be able to use the same kits MTH had you use. Just use a battery with Bluetooth to control it and you should be fine. I would like Lionel to offer scale wheels but at the end of the day I don't think Lionel is or will ever be interested in making 2-Rail trains.