Do they have buss wires and feeders on all that track on huge or even big layouts I see?

Yes, all 550 feet of my track has track drops about every six-eight feet, at last talley, I had about 85 drops.  All the command controlled switches have home runs back to the panel, and the turntable has sixteen whisker tracks, each is wired through a TMCC SC2 for individual control.

Yes, there is a lot of wire, but I'm not seeing any special issues maintaining it.

On my RR I have a large quantity of 10 ga, 12 ga, 14 ga and 18ga of wire on a fairly large layout with zero maintenance issues.

Yes it does take some time to hang it safely and connect it securely and no I am not finished but I am done.

Several of my peninsula additions do not have an inch of wire so my growing assortment of battery r/c locos have a designated play area.

If I was starting over again there are two things I would change:

1.- The layout would be smaller and simpler.

2.- I would only use full featured battery R/C power.

Tom has gone over to the dark side, I'm still sticking with track power.

My main layout isn't all that big, but every O22/711 switch and UCS are backfed as track power feeders, and each block generally has traditional soldered feeders every 4 to 6 or so track sections. I use big box store stranded 14 AWG wire as the main bus with 18 or 20 gauge feeders. Maintenance of this setup is essentially non-existent except for running the occasional track cleaning train, and gosh - running a train seems to be one of the main goals!

I would never consider BPRC as it is now over traditional track power, but lets not further derail this tangent.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

...the turntable has sixteen whisker tracks..

Just curious...where did the term "whisker tracks" come from? I have never seen that term before. It's not used in the 12-inch-to-the-foot world anywhere that I know of.

On my fairly large basement layout…16ga feeders off a 12ga buss wire. Feeders are spaced around 6’ give or take. Sidings are wired to simple SPST toggle switches. I try to keep it simple but still used a few thousand feet of wire.

Donald

@Rich Melvin posted:

Just curious...where did the term "whisker tracks" come from? I have never seen that term before. It's not used in the 12-inch-to-the-foot world anywhere that I know of.

I can't honestly say Rich, but I've heard it used for years, and I'm just following suit.  You'll have to ask the guys that I took my lead from where they came up with the term.

I did a search and tons of people including folks like Millhouse use the term, note item #3.

Here's a real RR reference: http://www.weirdca.com/location.php?location=909

And of course, Ross also calls them Whisker tracks.

Ross Custom Switches Turntables

From that page?

These guys are compatible with Lionel Legacy in so many ways and its cool as heck. Use the Legacy/TMCC handheld, or download the Lionel turntable app to your IPad and watch the bridge rotate to any track simply by TOUCHING THE WHISKER TRACK POPULATED ON THE SCREEN!  Too cool for school!

It's not hard to run up the wire usage with any decent size layout.  Mine is certainly not "huge", the main platform is 24 x 12, and I have the 12 foot yard extension.  I haven't tallied up the wire used, but I went through two spools of 500 feet of wire and needed more.   That doesn't count any of the smaller gauge wire that goes to switches and control panels, etc.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I can't honestly say Rich, but I've heard it used for years, and I'm just following suit...

Interesting. I've heard them referred to as "garden tracks" or "turntable leads" with a number assigned, but never "whisker tracks." Learn something new every day.

In the real world, every track has a name and/or a number, just as all streets have names or numbers.

@Rich Melvin posted:

Interesting. I've heard them referred to as "garden tracks" or "turntable leads" with a number assigned, but never "whisker tracks." Learn something new every day.

In the real world, every track has a name and/or a number, just as all streets have names or numbers.

I call the tracks out of the TT to the rest of the world the TT Leads.

Whisker tracks has shown up on the forum before.  A quick google search confirms that.  I have heard the term a lot, but always in a model/toy train discussion.  Probably started by someone whose cat jump up on the train table by the turntable and they saw a comparison between the cats whiskers and the turntable tracks.

I am setting up my “whisker tracks” using ASC2s.

Thanks for your replies. I'll plug away at my buss and feeders, probably my least favorite part of layout building.

I'm wiring like the Ho guys used to before DCC  with blocks and toggles Dual Cab control

Just came across this photo of my initial wire runs, thought to share the installation of multicolored wire.

Having dozens of  wires in various bundles the multi colors are very helpful in servicing circuits.

14 ga stranded.  The grey conduit upper left contains the 110 volt  20  amp 12 ga feed for the  perimeter outlets.

Tom, thanks for the picture of your wire caddies.  Those are really handy.  I like your addition of pipe insulation on the handles.

@CAPPilot posted:

Whisker tracks has shown up on the forum before.  A quick google search confirms that.  I have heard the term a lot, but always in a model/toy train discussion.  Probably started by someone whose cat jump up on the train table by the turntable and they saw a comparison between the cats whiskers and the turntable tracks.

I am setting up my “whisker tracks” using ASC2s.

If you look they've been called whisker tracks for years by Ross, Lionel, Atlas, etc.

My long and narrow layout required at least 200 feet for new power 14 gauge stranded red wires, each running from the MTH terminal Block to each 16 gauge solid drop wire for the power clip on each lock on..

I think I could have made a power bus with terminal strips that would have reduced the new power wire by 75%, but decided not to do so because I thought at the time that a power bus was not customary or recommended for model railroad layouts. That was probably a mistake.

Using the ground 14 gauge stranded black wires and terminal strips, running the 40 foot length of the layout connected to the ground drop wires, required much less new wire (about 40 to 50 feet), and enabled me to remove hundreds of feet of 16 gauge solid wire that previously ran from copper strips in front of my transformers to each ground clip for every lock on.

I'm saving the hundreds of feet of 16 gauge solid wire for possible future expansion and wiring needs. It served me well, and is still in good shape after 25 years.

Running the buss and putting in the drops frequently does not cause more maintenance generally.    If done well, there are seldom any problems with the wiring.   

Not having enough drops or suffiencient power around the layout DOES cause more track maintenance and operational failures due to track joints failing and causing dead spots or lower voltages.  

Generally speaking in the 2-rail world in all gauges, it is considered best to put drops on every piece of track.    Of course many people short cut that a little or a lot and some get away with it for  years without a failure.

I note that all of the posts above refer to using a bus wire and multiple drops with TMCC/Legacy.  

Does anyone have experience using DCS with the bus wire and multiple drop method?  MTH recommends star wiring and one drop per block.  How well does DCS work with bus wiring and multiple drops?   NH Joe

There are varying degrees of agreement/disagreement about how well DCS works with bus wiring.  The late Marty Fitzhenry used bus wiring on his fairly massive layout and always swore he had no issues with DCS operation.  On a smaller layout, you probably can get by with either style of wiring.  Folks like the NJ-HR club are still fighting with DCS on parts of their massive layout.

If  you are running DCS on a modular modular layout, buss wiring is pretty much the only option. The Lehigh Valley Hi-Railers ran DCS for years, albeit with a few problems. Eventually we took advice given to us (can't remember who told us) and made certain we had only one drop to each center rail on each module. Then we installed insulating pins on each center rail between modules. That simple change made 95% of our DCS issues go away. My new "permanent" layout will employ the same concept: one drop per section of track, and insulation pins at center rail joints.

Chris

LVHR

I recently rewired my conventional and DCS O Gauge layout as set forth on my recent thread about Rewiring the Layout in this Electrical Forum.

As a result, my trains now run better than ever.

I have 2 independently powered and interconnected main lines and 9 independently powered sidings.

The left throttle of a Z4000 powers the inner main loop and the right throttle of that transformer powers the outer loop.

The 9 sidings are powered by another Z4000 using Atlas Heavy Duty ((HD) Connectors.

I have 2 MTH Terminal Blocks: one for the inner loop main line and the other for the outer loop main line.

14 Gauge red insulated stranded wires are connected to the red posts of the terminal blocks and the 16 gauge solid drop wires from the power clips of the lock ons. There are lock ons for every 6 to 8 sections of postwar tubular track, so there is a lot of 14 gauge red stranded wire under my narrow 40 foot layout.

The sidings also have long runs of 14 gauge red insulated wires between the Atlas Connectors and 16 gauge solid drop wires from the power clips of the lock ons.

For the ground wire, I used 14 gauge black stranded wire and terminal strips to serve as a ground bus wire, which is connected to the drop wires from the ground clips of the lock ons. The 14 gauge stranded black wire starts from one black post for each MTH Terminal Block.

My wiring scheme may be a little different than most, but so far, the conventional trains and trains running on DCS are running just fine. I think what I have are features of the home run or star wiring system and bus wiring system.

I'm particularly happy with the ground bus wire and terminal strips, which enabled me to remove a lot of wire under my layout, thereby substantially reducing the rat's nest of wires there. However, it is still a rat's nest. LOL.

I can't seem to avoid having a rat's nest under my layout. Maybe that's because I'm a rat. LMAO, Arnold

PS: I would love to get feed back from Gunrunnerjohn and the other electrical/wiring experts for running conventional and DCS, based on what I described in my Forum post immediately above.

My layout is definitely not massive but may be moderate in size, about 3 to 4 feet wide, 40 feet long, and planning a 6 foot expansion (75 inches long and 27 inches wide) where I will have to more independently powered interconnected sidings. Arnold