Does your club allow anyone that is not a member of your club to run trains on the layout? As an example, somebody in the public brings granddad's Hudson and wants to see it run. Or a club member brings an acquaintance that doesn't have trains and attempts to learn DCS or TMCC in the midst of other peoples equipment. I know at the Greenberg show there was a vendor that repeatedly wanted us to stop running our trains so his customers could use our layout as a test track.
Steve
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Wow.
A club takes the time and money to travel and set up at a commercial train show just to be a test track for the dealers? I don't think so. Maybe running a train of a prospective new member or a member's brother-in-law from out of town. I mean who is responsible if the non-member train crashes into the member trains or vice-versa? I guess you could always join, build a module, and meet the club requirements and then run trains per the club schedule, etc.
I'm with two clubs, one a module layout and the permanent layout at the model railroad museum. We set the module layout up at the railroad museum several times a year, when we were at the gte show in 2014 at del mar some wanted to "test" trains some of the runners were OK but just for a few inches. in 2016 we will have a test track.
Now at the model railroad museum, if you are connected with a club, are a poster here on the OGR forum and you bring an engine you may use your engine to pull what we have running that day. this is not available everyday, but I know on Tuesday and Friday the runners will let you do this. this would not be for testing purposes.
however we also have in the past and probably in the future let a guest test an engine for a short distance on this layout.
L & N posted:Does your club allow anyone that is not a member of your club to run trains on the layout? As an example, somebody in the public brings granddad's Hudson and wants to see it run. Or a club member brings an acquaintance that doesn't have trains and attempts to learn DCS or TMCC in the midst of other peoples equipment. I know at the Greenberg show there was a vendor that repeatedly wanted us to stop running our trains so his customers could use our layout as a test track.
Steve
Like bigdodgetrain said, I belong to the same clubs as him. Now your club should not stop your trains for a vendor testing stuff out I believe it is your responsibility to provide the public with a layout for entertainment. Letting a vendor use it all the time doesn't help. For the public, I would like to let them but it is a liability if something breaks on the layout.
Our local hi-rail group is still building our modular layout for shows. We've discussed this and the general feeling is to not run trains of a non - member. As was said before,liability reasons are the thinking behind this choice.
With the PIHR, it is up to the people who have trains on the track if they want to allow a test run or allow a guest to run during the member's allotted time. We are more likely to do this if permission is asked in advance. We generally will test locos at a show for dealers who take care of us, and for polite members of the public, but if it requires removal of a whole train from a track, we generally decline.
Andy
My response would be: "it depends." Last year at one of our museum shows, I let a railroader friend operate his trains on my run time. He was battling lymphoma. He really enjoyed running his MTH B&O Geeps and seeing them pull 50 cars. He's gone now. I'm glad I let him do it.
The Chicagoland Lionel RR Club has a permanent layout and clubhouse where you can purchase time as a non-member.
No. I've got the same view as I do with the guys with 100 cars that take forever to put them on/off the track and take up all of the limited storage room. It isn't fair to everyone else that worked to set up/tear down and gave up their weekend to help with the club.
If someone wants to try a new purchase, I may be OK on a separate test track such as on the power cabinet but we are not a free layout to play with.
EDIT - One thing is that I'm a big believe in letting kids blow the whistle but with my train and others on the same track, I really don't feel comfortable handing over the reigns. If I need to use the boy's room while running, I'll had the remote to a fellow member and get back as quick as I can.
I was once a member of an HO module group and when we'd set up, it seemed like everyone who came by wanted to run the trains.
There are a few issues there:
I once saw a group that was letting people run the trains, and several parents were dumping their kids off there as if it was a babysitting service. I saw a lot of screaming fits among kids (many who were too old to be acting like that) when told it was time to give the throttle to someone else. Worse yet where some of their parents, who I saw one get in the face of the club member trying to get the throttle out of the hands of a kid who really seemed to think the entire show was set up for him, personally (no doubt fostered by the parent's behavior).
For a very brief time, I was sort of a member of a local On30 group and I saw this happen a couple of times too, where a kid would pretty much want to run trains all day on the club's layout.
After seeing that, I'd never allow it.
Yes, absolutely. It is a great recruiting tool for new club members. We have also received very generous donations to the club as a result of inviting a guest to run their consist. I have completed 3 sessions at our Great Big Greenhouse Christmas venue. Currently I am 0-3 with my engines (came home needing repair). I am more than happy to let anyone else run their engines.
We also are happy to turn the remote over to a younger to let them run the trains. Can there be problems? Yes, but the true pleasure of the folks we interact with more than makes up for any negatives.
As always, OGR members are invited to come and run with us. Check our website for details.
Another "it depends". Or depended, as this club is gone with the wind.
"Common sense", with everyone, helped a lot.
Occasionally a vendor or visitor would ask permission to test something. Once or twice a train show was fine, if he was polite (many vendors at train shows are not). More than that, no.
If a friend of a friend or such wanted to run his equipment on our layout as a guest, and he seemed to be well-behaved, we allowed it - once. After that join and pay your dues, or move back to the spectator role.
bigtruckpete posted:The Chicagoland Lionel RR Club has a permanent layout and clubhouse where you can purchase time as a non-member.
I would like to hear more about how you do this.
as said before it is a great recruiting tool. I know the NJHR have at least one line for guests with a club member waiting to help you at the annual Trainstock event.
Gilly@N&W posted:We also are happy to turn the remote over to a younger to let them run the trains. Can there be problems? Yes, but the true pleasure of the folks we interact with more than makes up for any negatives.
I view a member handing the control to a young engineer as a personal choice and if the member is doing so during their run time there isn't an issue. The pluses outweigh the minuses for that. I have done so in the past, BUT it always has been an offer on my part not an action to being asked if I can run the train.
We've let guests run trains, obviously there is some judgment involved in who you do that for. At one club open house, we had a kid that couldn't have been more than about 5, and he was the most conscientious operator there! It was a pleasure to see how careful he was and how well he kept proper spacing from other trains (one huge continuous track). He also was the most attentive operator I've ever seen, he didn't break concentration once. We got a real charge of seeing how well he did, many adults are not nearly as careful, myself included at times. 
My wife and I set up this 8x8 4 loop layout for Children at Dixie Division
and Terminus Chapter TCA meets. As long as it does not interfere with the Children running trains we sometimes test other trains. But we let Children of all ages run our trains
At TMB on Long Island we have received numerous requests for engine repair and tests runs. So far its been 100% post war trains people take out for the holidays. We have a few service techs in the club who usually volunteer and will fix trains and coach our guests on the mainlines. These fix or run times are arranged at non open house times so as not to disrupt the show. This has resulted in a lot of goodwill for the club with new members and sometimes donations. Our members will go out of their way to help promote the hobby
I am a 1 man club, so to speak, and have always taken the time out of my day to let the kids of the neighborhood run their trains on my layout. I actually added a DC loop for that purpose. I make a lot of repairs for them, and their parents, too... Wish there were some other O gaugers here, might try to find some.
Seems to be a budding consensus that this is more do-able on a "permanent" club layout than it is on a modular setup at a show.
During one of my bouts of armchair modeling, I gave thought to designing a "guest track" into a club layout, basically a dedicated staging track accessible from a non "members only" area that would allow a guest to assemble a visitor consist without interfering with the mainline. Said consist would at an appropriate time be let out onto the main, make a few laps, then return to the guest track to be taken down while a club/member train re-occupies the main from an existing staging area/passing siding, etc to keep the action going. I got the idea from watching visitor trains at the NJHR being setup and taken down (as well as my own experience at the same*)
---PCJ
(*only thing holding me back from just joining the Hirailers is a reliable means of getting over there on a regular basis.)
We have a Thomas, Percy, and James with their own remotes. Some of the members who are kid friendly ask the kids if they would like to run the trains. If I ever have to fix a remote, I will disable that %$@%^ bell button. Oy vey!
We also fix trains for people who come in. I field stripped a postwar Lionel loco in front of its owner one time. You should have seen the look on his face! That look changed when I put it back together and it ran/smoked perfectly. Lots of repair work goes on this time of year as people dig out their trains and try to operate them.
One of the club layouts is at child level and many of them feel that it is an invitation to touch/grab/feel/dislodge the trains. The parents never say "don't touch" until I say something. Little Johnny and Susie are so precious, they could never do anything wrong, could they?
Aish, that is the one class of individual I cannot stand. We keep the 042 loop open to the younger kids, as well as the activators for such cars as the Horse car and Milk car. The rest is in my little corner control panel. I have a lot of peeps that don't seem to mind the watching of stripping down old Lionel, Marx, etc. I think it's because they think I know what I am doing lol.
I can say the subject has never come up with my club. I'll bring it up to one of the board members when I see him Saturday. It would seem to me as long as a member were there and regulating who was running the trains and for how long it shouldn't be a problem. Our modular layout has side-by-side track so at least two people could run a engine as long as they bring a reasonable amount of cars for the engine to pull. I live in a small town and the club is in another small town so there's not a lot of people that stop by.
This thread has been a real eye opener for me. Never having joined a club or had any dealings with one, I had a very different perspective, and the one I would assume most of the rest of the non-club member public shares.
When I walk into a train show or event with trains set up somewhere I had always thought the main purpose was for the public to be engaged, to ask questions, perhaps to get some time on the controls, and at the very least to draw more people into the hobby. This thread has shown me why it seemed so odd that the folks running the trains are always so grumpy and stand-offish. They are not there as ambassadors of the hobby but to run their own trains in their allotted time window. Everything makes much more sense now.
Not to be totally flippant here, but in all honesty I thought the purpose of portable, modular, layouts was to get trains in front of the public, and that clubs would meet at members layouts or construct their own club layout for club activities out of the public.
When it comes to who and how often I would let folks use a layout, any member of the public would be invited and welcomed to bring their trains from home. I may be a bit skeptical of letting others run my stuff, but there is not much that can be hurt letting anyone run their own. Dealers, at my supposed club layout, would be allowed only if there was nothing else going on at the time. On the other hand, as a dealer I think it would be nice for the show to provide a 4x8 sheet of plywood with an oval of track for testing, something I don't know why no one thought of before.
I've had some positive responses locally when throwing the idea of 3-rail "Run what you brung" out there, with a couple of guys handy for check-ups and maybe small repairs. Use some old beaters for demo purposes, say Marx plastic for example, and allow visitors to run only their own pieces. A simple conventional loop or two, and plenty conversation would be a real hobby boost, I figure. The possibility of return visitors over a 2 or 3 day show might be pretty good, when their memory of that train in their basement is jogged.
JohnGaltLine posted:This thread has been a real eye opener for me. Never having joined a club or had any dealings with one, I had a very different perspective, and the one I would assume most of the rest of the non-club member public shares.
When I walk into a train show or event with trains set up somewhere I had always thought the main purpose was for the public to be engaged, to ask questions, perhaps to get some time on the controls, and at the very least to draw more people into the hobby. This thread has shown me why it seemed so odd that the folks running the trains are always so grumpy and stand-offish. They are not there as ambassadors of the hobby but to run their own trains in their allotted time window. Everything makes much more sense now.
Not to be totally flippant here, but in all honesty I thought the purpose of portable, modular, layouts was to get trains in front of the public, and that clubs would meet at members layouts or construct their own club layout for club activities out of the public.
When it comes to who and how often I would let folks use a layout, any member of the public would be invited and welcomed to bring their trains from home. I may be a bit skeptical of letting others run my stuff, but there is not much that can be hurt letting anyone run their own. Dealers, at my supposed club layout, would be allowed only if there was nothing else going on at the time. On the other hand, as a dealer I think it would be nice for the show to provide a 4x8 sheet of plywood with an oval of track for testing, something I don't know why no one thought of before.
I'm a very big cheerleader of the hobby with the public at events. You are correct that we are there to promote the hobby, answer questions, etc. I think all of our guys see that as well.
However,
We meet monthly in a community center (no trains running, just a business meeting). We pay dues, build modules, work on club equipment, etc.
Many of our guys do NOT have home layouts. This is their only chance to run trains - giving up their entire weekend (or more) to set up and run the layout. I don't think it is fair to have them do the work for others who aren't even members to just show up and play without contributing financially or otherwise to the club.
One member does (did?) have a small kids table - Junior Junction - that was an oval of track with Thomas, transformer and some cars and buildings. Great thing for the kids but it doesn't often come to shows.
Not to be totally flippant here, but in all honesty I thought the purpose of portable, modular, layouts was to get trains in front of the public, and that clubs would meet at members layouts or construct their own club layout for club activities out of the public.
Easily said when you don't have a modular layout section or participate in a club that does.
When I was involved in promoting local train shows, we brought a good sized box of 027 track, and a bunch of runner trains that looked OK, but certainly could stand some more abuse. We arranged three eight foot tables in a rectangle, and setup a layout for kids to run. The transformer, which was always a 1033 or 1044 was mounted to a small base, with a postwar Lionel #91 electromagnetic circuit breaker. A milk car was set up on a length of track for the kids to use.
Kids visiting the show ran the trains and worked the milk car all day.
The only casualties I recall are the transformer handles. The kids were a little rough on them, and broke a few. No big deal to replace.
Frankly, in the public shows I've participated in or attended, or even club open houses, I've never observed members of the viewing public bringing their own trains to run on other folks modular or display layouts.
We seem to be laboring under the illusion here that everybody has an old train tucked away in their house somewhere and is looking for an opportunity to dust it off and run it.
Rusty
C W Burfle posted:Not to be totally flippant here, but in all honesty I thought the purpose of portable, modular, layouts was to get trains in front of the public, and that clubs would meet at members layouts or construct their own club layout for club activities out of the public.
Easily said when you don't have a modular layout section or participate in a club that does.
No, I don't. I have had everything from the living room floor, a 4x8 sheet of plywood that hung half way over my bed, through to several such sheets of plywood in the basement. Between homes at the moment so no trains set up, but it sure would be nice if there were somewhere inviting to run them.
On the other side, in the dozens of train shows I've visited throughout the country I have never once been approached to join a club, and in only one case I recall ever even informed that a local club was responsible for the layout on display, as opposed to it just being provided by the folks running the show or event. John Q. Public doesn't know what is going on behind the scenes. As I said before, it is a real eye opener that the folks bringing these layouts to public events are not actually interested in talking to the public.
It certainly is interesting the polarization of opinions offered here. I happen to think offering an opportunity to operate a train is a great idea, one I have only seen once at the NJHigh Railers. The look of delight on the face of one young fellow as he had his train navigate around that layout was something I will never forget. One would think that permitting some operation would get the juices flowing and possible engage new members. Of course if that is not the intention of the club so be it. Many of the modular layouts run 3 and even 4 track lines, opening up a window for one of those lines to be run by "guests" seems to be a creative way to engage if that is the desire. Hey, you could even charge for 15 minute blocks of time as a way to improve revenue for the club.
JohnGaltLine posted:This thread has been a real eye opener for me. Never having joined a club or had any dealings with one, I had a very different perspective, and the one I would assume most of the rest of the non-club member public shares.
When I walk into a train show or event with trains set up somewhere I had always thought the main purpose was for the public to be engaged, to ask questions, perhaps to get some time on the controls, and at the very least to draw more people into the hobby. This thread has shown me why it seemed so odd that the folks running the trains are always so grumpy and stand-offish. They are not there as ambassadors of the hobby but to run their own trains in their allotted time window. Everything makes much more sense now.
Not to be totally flippant here, but in all honesty I thought the purpose of portable, modular, layouts was to get trains in front of the public, and that clubs would meet at members layouts or construct their own club layout for club activities out of the public.
When it comes to who and how often I would let folks use a layout, any member of the public would be invited and welcomed to bring their trains from home. I may be a bit skeptical of letting others run my stuff, but there is not much that can be hurt letting anyone run their own. Dealers, at my supposed club layout, would be allowed only if there was nothing else going on at the time. On the other hand, as a dealer I think it would be nice for the show to provide a 4x8 sheet of plywood with an oval of track for testing, something I don't know why no one thought of before.
Do you even have any trains????
JohnGaltLine posted:C W Burfle posted:Not to be totally flippant here, but in all honesty I thought the purpose of portable, modular, layouts was to get trains in front of the public, and that clubs would meet at members layouts or construct their own club layout for club activities out of the public.
Easily said when you don't have a modular layout section or participate in a club that does.
No, I don't. I have had everything from the living room floor, a 4x8 sheet of plywood that hung half way over my bed, through to several such sheets of plywood in the basement. Between homes at the moment so no trains set up, but it sure would be nice if there were somewhere inviting to run them.
On the other side, in the dozens of train shows I've visited throughout the country I have never once been approached to join a club, and in only one case I recall ever even informed that a local club was responsible for the layout on display, as opposed to it just being provided by the folks running the show or event. John Q. Public doesn't know what is going on behind the scenes. As I said before, it is a real eye opener that the folks bringing these layouts to public events are not actually interested in talking to the public.
Not sure what clubs you've been to but ours has never been such a club. I don't think we'd have 100 members, do 25 shows a year (most being non-train venues!) and be able to build some of the (if not THE) largest O Gauge modular railroads in the country if we never approached anyone and weren't interested in attracting the public!
bigdodgetrain posted:bigtruckpete posted:The Chicagoland Lionel RR Club has a permanent layout and clubhouse where you can purchase time as a non-member.
I would like to hear more about how you do this.
Per their website (I'm not a member, just a big fan of what they do and how they do it!), non-members can buy time: 1 hour for $20; 2 hours for $35 and 3 hours for $45. The time is then requested by the buyer and coordinated by a member. Non-member must arrive 30 minutes prior to scheduled time for briefing and be supervised by member. Time is used in 30 minute blocks with no more than 60 continuous minutes and not available during open houses. If the time buyer then elects to join their is a discount or waiver of the initiation fee. The club will even rent a loco at $5 per 30 minutes and let them use rolling stock!!!
A great recruiting tool, fund raiser and a fun way for non-members to run the big equipment and or long trains!
Apparently Chichgoland has a very enlightened approach to things. It is all about having fun after all.
bigdodgetrain posted:JohnGaltLine posted:This thread has been a real eye opener for me. Never having joined a club or had any dealings with one, I had a very different perspective, and the one I would assume most of the rest of the non-club member public shares.
When I walk into a train show or event with trains set up somewhere I had always thought the main purpose was for the public to be engaged, to ask questions, perhaps to get some time on the controls, and at the very least to draw more people into the hobby. This thread has shown me why it seemed so odd that the folks running the trains are always so grumpy and stand-offish. They are not there as ambassadors of the hobby but to run their own trains in their allotted time window. Everything makes much more sense now.
Not to be totally flippant here, but in all honesty I thought the purpose of portable, modular, layouts was to get trains in front of the public, and that clubs would meet at members layouts or construct their own club layout for club activities out of the public.
When it comes to who and how often I would let folks use a layout, any member of the public would be invited and welcomed to bring their trains from home. I may be a bit skeptical of letting others run my stuff, but there is not much that can be hurt letting anyone run their own. Dealers, at my supposed club layout, would be allowed only if there was nothing else going on at the time. On the other hand, as a dealer I think it would be nice for the show to provide a 4x8 sheet of plywood with an oval of track for testing, something I don't know why no one thought of before.
Do you even have any trains????
I'm not quite sure how to respond to this, and unsure what difference if I had never seen a train, real or model, before in my life. Actually that is the entire point, people that are not in clubs and may just be browsing by percieve these layouts as places to come and learn about them or talk to folks that could get them involved. A layout at a public place should be manned by folk that assume the visitor doesn't own any trains.
As for private events, that is something else entirely, and of course you can organize such a meet in any way you like, but I think using public space at an event as your private time is quite rude to the folk that pay money to get in the door at a show.
SJC,
My tone here is more directed to the folks that are not into talking to people or, with supervision, putting the controls in the hands of another. You and your club seem to do a wonderful job, and I've read a number f post where you describe such things.
Oh, and to answer the question, No, I do not own any trains. I do own a fair number of toy trains, however. Nothing like some of the fantastic collections some folks here have, but a dozen locomotives, maybe 100 pieces of rolling stock, and enough track and switches for everything to be on the layout (currently decommissioned due to moving) at once should be considered 'some trains.'
We at Angels Gate here in LA have our permanent layout set up in a building in the San Pedro area administered by the Los Angeles Department of rec and parks. We are open to the public on Saturdays and Wednesdays. The members, at their discretion, will allow kids to blow the whistle and sound the bell from the DCS or TMCC remotes. In some cases, we will show the kids how to run the trains and off they go. The member is always overseeing. If someone comes in and would like to run a train, we will accommodate if it does not interfere with the trains already running. We allow that just one time. Then we request that they join the club if they want to continue to run their trains. Our mebership is a family membership allowing all members to run.
In many cases, people bring in their conventional equipment and we are all very accommodating to getting that running. I just did one two weeks ago. Last week we set up 4 loops of track at the Los Angeles Winter festival in Pershing Square. The trains were magnets for the kids. Some melt down as they don't want to leave. We must all remember that we want to get the kids involved. That's what it's all about.
Jeff
President Angels Gate Hi Railers
JohnGaltLine posted:bigdodgetrain posted:JohnGaltLine posted:This thread has been a real eye opener for me. Never having joined a club or had any dealings with one, I had a very different perspective, and the one I would assume most of the rest of the non-club member public shares.
When I walk into a train show or event with trains set up somewhere I had always thought the main purpose was for the public to be engaged, to ask questions, perhaps to get some time on the controls, and at the very least to draw more people into the hobby. This thread has shown me why it seemed so odd that the folks running the trains are always so grumpy and stand-offish. They are not there as ambassadors of the hobby but to run their own trains in their allotted time window. Everything makes much more sense now.
Not to be totally flippant here, but in all honesty I thought the purpose of portable, modular, layouts was to get trains in front of the public, and that clubs would meet at members layouts or construct their own club layout for club activities out of the public.
When it comes to who and how often I would let folks use a layout, any member of the public would be invited and welcomed to bring their trains from home. I may be a bit skeptical of letting others run my stuff, but there is not much that can be hurt letting anyone run their own. Dealers, at my supposed club layout, would be allowed only if there was nothing else going on at the time. On the other hand, as a dealer I think it would be nice for the show to provide a 4x8 sheet of plywood with an oval of track for testing, something I don't know why no one thought of before.
Do you even have any trains????
. A layout at a public place should be events, that is something else entirely, and of course you can organize such a meet in any way you like, but I think using public space at an event as your private time is quite rude to the folk that pay money to get in the door.
I appreciate your kind words to our efforts.
However I must question this statement - do you really thing that a club that sets up their layout "in public", say at a county fair, local library fundraiser, railroad and non-railroad museums, street fairs, etc for public enjoyment and doesn't allow the public to run trains on the display they built and own is "quite rude"?
SJC posted:Do do you really thing that a club that sets up their layout "in public", say at a county fair, local library fundraiser, railroad and non-railroad museums, street fairs, etc for public enjoyment and doesn't allow the public to run trains on the display they built and own is "quite rude"?
Many do.
I don't think it dawns on most people that many module groups exist for the members to run the trains they otherwise wouldn't as they don't have their own layouts.
"Rude," to me, would only apply to those clubs who won't engage the public for questions or advice when asked for them. That, I've very rarely seen.
Lots of interesting responses to this. When I was active in the Independent Hi-Railers, Midwest Division, we would NEVER allow a "member of the public" to place and run his locomotive on our huge modular layout. Why not? Well, a number of reasons not to come to mind:
1) We all didn't go through that back-breaking work setting up the huge layout, so that anybody else could use it!
2) Potential liability, i.e. what happens if the poor "visitor's" model smokes itself while testing/running on OUR layout?
3) We had many more than a few members that the MAIN REASON they were a member of the group was so that they could operate big long trains, especially since they did NOT have a home layout. Thus, those guys were NOT there simply to "promote" the hobby and let outsiders operate on such a big modular layout.
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