Double main over-under layout (update 09/13/21)

@Ken-Oscale posted:

Glad to hear you talking about vertical easements.  With 4% grades, I try to work in 2' of 2% at each end as vertical easements.

Each 2' of 2% easements accounts for about 1/2" of vertical change.  To get to 6", that leaves 5" more of vertical height to attain.  To get 5" of vertical change at 4% needs about 10' of run.  So 14' total to rise 6".  If it was all 4%, you would only need about 12' of run to reach 6" of vertical change.

Ken

That sounds approximately equivalent to my 16" at each end for 1/4" rise (1.5% transition) for a 3% incline.

@Oman posted:

Okay, something like this.

Exactly!  What do you think, it interferes with your access hatch or town space?  Worthwhile?

@Ken-Oscale posted:

Exactly!  What do you think, it interferes with your access hatch?  Worthwhile?

Ken

I like it, but I'll have to review the access hole split. I would consider a slight curve to the right; thereby splitting the access hole in half diagonally and extending the yard rails even further.

Thanks.

@Oman posted:

Ken

I like it, but I'll have to review the access hole split. I would consider a slight curve to the right; thereby splitting the access hole in half diagonally and extending the yard rails even further.

Thanks.

And now a better version. I replaced the #5 turnouts with O-72 for the yard.

Keith, How big with the access holes be now?

@Mark Boyce posted:

Keith, How big with the access holes be now?

Mark

The current access hole is 36" X 72". I'm going to run some string to rope out the possible new yard and see how I feel (fit )  about it.

Ha ha!  Oh, the existing access is much larger than I thought!  

I've been following Ken's layout design. He showed a yard where the track spacing wasn't ideal. That sent me back to look at my yard. I think I will replace the O-72 yard turnouts with O-54. That reduces the track spacing to approximately 4". It looks better and the yard takes less space.

Thanks Ken

I moved the turntable to the same level as the yard. 

Half of my inclines are complete.

@Oman posted:

I moved the turntable to the same level as the yard. 

Looks very good,very cool!  Kudos!!  -Ken

Keith, The inclines look smooth as can be!

@Mark Boyce posted:

Keith, The inclines look smooth as can be!

Thanks Mark

I'm hoping the trains agree. 

Piecing the Y together.

Very smooth looking cutting and track, Keith!!

@Mark Boyce posted:

Very smooth looking cutting and track, Keith!!

Thanks Mark

The actual track isn't following the SCARM plan. SCARM called for a cut 2.86" straight on the turnout leg. Actual 1.75". SCARM called for 1.75" at the entry to the turnout. Actual is more like 1.5". I installed a 1.25" for now. But, that's okay.  All the sub-roadbed was laid out with a 48" adjustable home made compass. So, I have numerous datum points. I just make sure the track is centered, parallel and starts and stops at the datum points. 

Keith, That makes sense.  My track doesn't follow the SCARM plan exactly either, but it is close.

All 3 switch pads for Y are built; ready to lay roadbed for 2nd leg of Y. I had modified this leg pushing the switch back. So, I had to carve out some of the adjacent foam riser.

Today, I completed the Y. Eventually, I'll replace the temporary plywood roadbed with foam roadbed. I used plywood under the flex track to give the track screws more strength while forming the curves.

In this photo, the left leg of the Y is sectional track.

In this photo, I formed the flex track (left Leg) by eye.

Here,  I formed the flex track using the SCARM 1:1 print. I just discovered this SCARM feature on the weekend.

My home made chop saw for cutting track.

Keith, That is a smooth looking curve you made with Atlas flex track!  I like your home made track cutting chop saw as well!!  I printed out my track plan 1:1 for laying track.  It is a really wonderful feature!  I'll look forward to seeing your continued progress!

@Mark Boyce posted:

Keith, That is a smooth looking curve you made with Atlas flex track!  I like your home made track cutting chop saw as well!!  I printed out my track plan 1:1 for laying track.  It is a really wonderful feature!  I'll look forward to seeing your continued progress!

Thanks Mark. My US 500 blade on the Dremel Ultra-Saw was labelled for wood and metal, but the cut leaves significant burrs. When I bought the Dremel a few years ago, that was the only choice. Now they have a 3.5" abrasive cut off blade for the Ultra-Saw. I just ordered one. Today the US 500 blade is labeled for wood only (not metal).  I'm expecting even better track cutting results with the cut off blade.

Ditto on the Scarm 1:1 printout; extremely valuable when working with flex track. 

Really cool layout. Looking forward to seeing the final product. 

I'm getting near the end of building inclines. Atlas track on 4.5" centers and WS risers doubled up at 5" has caused some (builder) errors. I'm correcting them. If I were to start over again, I think I would use single 2.5" WS risers and build up them out to 4.5" with 2 layers of 0.5" foam sheet material. It would also be less expensive.

I'm working on installing the Atlas double track plate girder bridge; you can see in the background.

This is an amazing build!  Really looking forward to seeing it complete.  Any chance you could attach your latest SCARM file?  Thanks for sharing your progress!

@Ted S posted:

This is an amazing build!  Really looking forward to seeing it complete.  Any chance you could attach your latest SCARM file?  Thanks for sharing your progress!

Thank you.

I started with the Atlas version of SCARM, but it's exactly the same. I think the file will open in SCARM. If not, just change . atps to .scarm

Now my train room is truly a conditioned space; 18,000 BTU (plus 17,000 BTU propane heater in lower utility room). Hyper Heat model can operate down to -5F. I had the kumo cloud module installed, so I can regulate temperature wherever I am.

That should make it comfortable in all seasons!

0 man, really, really nice.  Love the workmanship.  A joy to look at!

The atlas track can be a stiff bugger to work with.  When I had to vertically transition for sharper 3 rail grades, I actually formed a vertical bow in a 40" length and centered the full length in the middle of the transition.

On the topside yard consider how laying the tracks out in gentle curves even an "S" curve to accommodate the access.

What about slicing into both ends of Ross' curved turnouts to make a mainline conforming curved turnout 4 way to facilitate an embracing yard.   I picked up the idea from John Allen's G & D classic RR from a half century ago.   It looks like this:

John Allen started his points right after the frog to compress the total foot print of his yard throat.  Maybe something Steve at Ross would consider. I had to do this to get my four track yard started ASAP.

Maybe considering contacting Hiekel to check out the possibility of making a three way right hand wye  to achieve an even shorter throat. Like this in a right hand configuation:

Real RRs have to build their yards within the available topography. The curved yard here is to provide an aisle funnel:

In an altogether different approach, is there a way to build an add on finger module so as to allow for a generous yard along a continuing wall? 

Is there a way to come off a curve with a Ross conventional 4 way and then go through a wall into an adjoining room for tracks to run the entire length of the other room's wall.

Most of us already have so any cars that a short yard could be congested and discouraging.

The Curved Benchwork folks could make an extension module with a curved end to mate up cleanly with your existing benchwork.

Your accomplishment so far is self evident of well thought out planning.  What you have already done proves you will make everything work out just right in the end.

Thanks for the suggestions Tom

I considered a curved turnout, but the yard throat would run over an incline. I only have a 6" elevation change, so I can't afford any additional loss of vertical clearance.

This is a loft above a 2 car garage, so there's no adjoining room. There's lots of space to the left of the layout, but that's really not my space. I'm 1 of 2 owners in a duplex condominium. This is a separate building from the duplex. My neighbor is very supportive, but who knows what the future will bring. So, I try to consume only 1/2 of the space.

Keith, I am pretty dense.   It took Tom Tee separating your profile name 'Oman' into '0 man' for me to see what your name means.  I just thought maybe it had something to do with your last name, or who knows what!   Simple, but brilliant on your part!!  Very slow on my part. 

Mark

I saw your recent post on your layout and decided to update mine. I wish I had more progress, but at least there is progress. I have more to go before I have a loop where I can run trains.

It is looking great, Keith!

I'm back after winter. At my advanced age, I don't have the initiative or nerve to walk out to my train room in a remote building.

In this photo, I am finding the correct line to re-lay my flex track. I had to pick up the flex track, so I could put foam roadbed underneath. So, really nothing new to report here.

Keith, I am glad the weather is finally getting warmer so you can get out to the train building.

I'm approaching closure of the gap that will complete 1 of 2 loops. The other loop requires a curved bridge that I hope to procure from The Bridge Boss.

Here's 1 of 2 sheets of plywood needed to close the gap. It's temporarily supported until I install 3/4" dowels. Clearance from top of rail to underside of plywood is 5". I won't be running double stacks.

@Oman posted:

I'm approaching closure of the gap that will complete 1 of 2 loops. The other loop requires a curved bridge that I hope to procure from The Bridge Boss.

Lookin' good, you'll be running soon!

@Oman posted:

Here's 1 of 2 sheets of plywood needed to close the gap. It's temporarily supported until I install 3/4" dowels. Clearance from top of rail to underside of plywood is 5". I won't be running double stacks.

Scratch the MTH Autoracks off your list as well, at 5" they don't make it.   That's the car I used to check clearances on mine, I ended up with a little over 5 1/4" at the low point going to my back 3-track yard, the autorack clears it by less than 1/8".

It looks great, Keith!  Five inches is fine if you are like me not running those tall modern cars

The Lionel vision line GG1 needs a rather high clearance as well. Don’t ask me how I know that.

@Oman posted:

I'm back after winter. At my advanced age, I don't have the initiative or nerve to walk out to my train room in a remote building.

In this photo, I am finding the correct line to re-lay my flex track. I had to pick up the flex track, so I could put foam roadbed underneath. So, really nothing new to report here.

"Ahh, Delighted to see that you have captured a photo of the Elusive O-Scale Mouse Speeder." I've always wanted on for my collection!

Congratulations.

@Miggy posted:

"Ahh, Delighted to see that you have captured a photo of the Elusive O-Scale Mouse Speeder." I've always wanted on for my collection!

Congratulations.

Very sleek and aerodynamic!  No wonder it is called a Speeder!!