Drive train on 3rd rail CP selkirk wore out.

ironlake2 posted:

I wish scott would go back to the universal drive on his steamers.  My 3 rail Selkirk quit running awhile back and finally found a guy to fix it.  The motor pully broke, the drive belt broke and the set screw on the flywheel was too tight and was stripped.  The flywheel was just free spinning on the motor shaft.   The standard dogbone universal on the flywheel to gear box runs forever.  I have a Williams big boy and it has hours of running time and still is in great running condition.  If you have many hours on a steamer with the belt drive might be a good thing to check it out.  My lionel and mth engines have the same drive as Williams and they run flawlessly smooth.

Well, in my opinion, you are TOTALLY WRONG!!!! I have more than 20 Sunset/3rd Rail steam locomotive models, and have NEVER had any issues with their "drive design". On the other hand, Lionel is famous for "drive train issues" on such high end models as the NYC Niagara, and the B&O EM-1 2-8-8-4, for just two examples.

ironlake2 posted:

I wish scott would go back to the universal drive on his steamers.  My 3 rail Selkirk quit running awhile back and finally found a guy to fix it.  The motor pully broke, the drive belt broke and the set screw on the flywheel was too tight and was stripped.  The flywheel was just free spinning on the motor shaft.   The standard dogbone universal on the flywheel to gear box runs forever.  I have a Williams big boy and it has hours of running time and still is in great running condition.  If you have many hours on a steamer with the belt drive might be a good thing to check it out.  My lionel and mth engines have the same drive as Williams and they run flawlessly smooth.

Hello ironlake2

Keep in mind that Sunset 3rd uses many different types of drive systems on their steam locomotives through out the years so can you take a picture of the drive system that failed on your 2-10-4 Selkirk ? I have about 10 hours of running time on my Sunset 3RD S.F. 5011 class 2-10-4 and no failure of any kind.  When I purchased it in 2012, I took it apart and gone through drive train system lubing it well before running.  This type of drive system in my 5011 is the "quiet drive" system with ball bearings and the cog type belt hardly fails it has almost same type of material as the timing belt of the car.  I had Williams brass Big Boy back in 1990's and the gears in the front engine are not as tough as the gears in my 2-10-4.   So what happen ?   Take a picture showing the drive system of your Selkirk if you can?   I know some people will run their trains without oil or grease and of course any drive system it will fail.   If you can take a look in Ebay of Sunset 3RD engines for sale (some will show drive train systems pictures) and you will know that not all uses the same systems, some as not as good as others but I believe the Selkirk has the same system as my S.F. 5011 has and the drive train has held up pretty well so far and the S.F.5011 is 15 years old now.  This engine has the toughest gearbox I ever seen as I had many brass locomotives in 1980's (Key imports, PFM ,Westside models, Williams and Sunset) and worked on them too.  The WORSE one was the sunset 2 rail "O" scale U.P. 9000 4-12-2 of 1980 era.

"And he looked up at the window, and said, "who is on my side?  WHO?"  So two or three eunuchs look out at him. 2 Kings 10:32 NKJV (New King James Version)

Tiffany

the drive on the Selkirk is the belt drive from the motor  geared to belt to the gear on the lower drive shaft which rides in a ball bearing in the rear to the ball bearing gearbox on the driver.  The problem is the belt  not handling the torque the big pittman motor driving a big 1-10-4 steamer that pulls a 12 car passenger car and a poor quality set screw on the flywheel.  I have older 3rd rail engines that have the universal drive system and are still running great.  In fact I have 24 of them,  3rd rail, lionel, mth, weaver Williams and the only belt drive I have is the Selkirk.  I even have to pay for the defective parts from sunset 3rd rail.

ironlake2 posted:

the drive on the Selkirk is the belt drive from the motor  geared to belt to the gear on the lower drive shaft which rides in a ball bearing in the rear to the ball bearing gearbox on the driver.  The problem is the belt  not handling the torque the big pittman motor driving a big 1-10-4 steamer that pulls a 12 car passenger car and a poor quality set screw on the flywheel.  I have older 3rd rail engines that have the universal drive system and are still running great.  In fact I have 24 of them,  3rd rail, lionel, mth, weaver Williams and the only belt drive I have is the Selkirk.  I even have to pay for the defective parts from sunset 3rd rail.

Hello ironlake2

ok so the belt and set screw for flywheel is defective is that all ?  Those two parts are easy to replace and of low cost.  Did you add more weight in the boiler?  Did you purchased the engine new or used(second hand).  This is the same system that's on my S.F. 5011 and I don't have any problems like that.  Something is not right here I wondered.

Tiffany

Anybody want to hear from the guy who has it on his work bench? The loco ran really jerky at slow speeds, about the first 10 notches on the legacy dial, when I looked at the drive, the flywheel was rubbing on the motor mounts, well I pulled the flywheel away from the motor mount and the dang thing was loose. Tried to tighten the set screw and it was stripped, tried to remove it and it was ceased. After running it a bit more it was noted the motor pulley was oddly out of round causing the jerkiness as rotated. I have no solution to fix that other than a new pulley. Now the belt was just cracked and it needed a new one. The drive didn't wear out, just needs some TLC, I'll have this baby running like a dream before you know it. 

About 20 years ago we switched from a gear tower system with 3 or 4 gears mounted in a brass box, to a belt drive.  Since then we have had almost no failures. If there is something else in the model binding, or a pulley pin works loose, the friction from these things rubbing and trying to transfer torque from the motor can melt the pulley or tear belt.  Luckily these belts and pulleys are the same going back 20 years and 10s of 1000s of steam engines and very easy to replace. Really, we only get maybe 1 request every couple of years for replacements.  They are much better than the gear towers of the past.

Unfortunately, the builder for the Selkirk who is long gone, used Loctite on the flywheel and motor shaft. One needs to heat it up to get it to release. I suggest a hair dryer.  I was so angry when I saw them doing that, but it was too late, all the chassis were finished. They gone now and we have much better control of production than we did back then. I really should write a book on importing these things.

If you need belts and pulleys, email me.  We sell them.

Scott Mann

4 gallons of locktite. None of it is that big of a deal, when you fix trains you just get the parts and get it fixed. Its nice that 3rd Rail has such good aftermarket support as on the rare occasion Ive needed to get parts they were available. Scott, I do have an issue with my GS4 sound that Ill email you about later