dz-2500 problems updated 1-3-2012

They are connected to a data driver, correct?

superwarp1

yes should have stated they are connected to a data driver and only connected to tmcc command base I had trouble with these from the beginning took me 3 hrs to get them programmed last time I used them was 2 months ago fired up today and this issue arises.
the command base and the data driver red lights both blink when I send command from remote. it will respond to the diverging route but flat refuses to re align back to the trough setting and now the other 4 are non responsive. will check wiring see if a gremlin sneaked in.

$oo

One bad egg in the bunch will screw the rest up. Try disconnecting one at a time to see if the others start responding. From the data wire that is.


Such a neat switch machine with so many issues over the years. I have 15 installed and every once in awhile one will fail for no reason.

But Zstuff stands behind their products and they will fix it for free.

superwarp1 thanks for the help and ideas.

the plot thickens the data wire driver has now stopped showing any signs of a red blinking light command base shows it is receiving the command I ran into this at first with data driver. will send an email to them again see what they say.

now I did have to run 2 wires a red wire and a white wire from data driver and hook it to the command base to get them to work the last time is this correct incorrect or saying shot me now and get another one?

$oo

I take it that the DZ2001 is connected to a tmcc base and not the Legacy base, correct?

Soo
I'm running mine through Legacy and I have the rs232 cable from the base to the data wire driver. My driver has 3 wires, red, black and white. Red to hot, black to ground and white to your data wire. Programming switches is something like this, but maybe not exact. Hold switch machine button in for 3-5 seconds, lights will quickly alternate green red for programming mode. On my cab 2 press switch, then number then aux1 then set and light on dz 2500 will blink slowly to show info has been received. Then I test mine accordingly. I think your driver should have 3 wires. I had one that lost a wire and if you haven't visited this for a while that could be your case. Good luck.

quote:

Originally posted by $oo Line:
ok so I decide to try a branch line and go to use tmcc to activate the switch ha!

it only will move to the curved throw will not re align to the straight do these things forget there setup as tmcc switch #'s if I use the manual button they work fine any ideas as I'm tired of constantly working on them could I have gotten a bad batch? $oo

Soo, love ya buddy, but how about a period or question mark here or there? Very difficult to read man.

quote:

Originally posted by gregj410:
Soo
I'm running mine through Legacy and I have the rs232 cable from the base to the data wire driver.....

The reason I asked if tmcc or legacy, is because the DZ2001 is marginally able to be driven by the legacy base. I think this may have caused marginal operation of the DZ2500s.
Read here...

http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/eve...7660482/m/8772922227

And also the thread it references.

If you connect the data driver board into a Legacy unit there's a resistor on the Data driver that needs to be changed. Dennis of Zstuff has the value.

It was originally 100 ohms and then changed to 390 ohms. I found that to still be marginal. Making that even higher in value, may affect the driver's ability to drive the DZ2500s. I think the best solution is to leave the DZ2001 as is and use a booster amp on the legacy base. Then there will be no problem driving any of the Lionel devices and the DZ2001 as well. For the purpose of connecting the Legacy base to a computer, one should connect a y cable, one output to the computer and the other to the booster amp.
There may still be some issue with the consistency of the DZ2500 units that has nothing to do with the Legacy base once the booster amp is in place, but at least the base won't be in the equation.

I purchased 30 Ross switches with DZ 2500's. 7 machines went back to Dennis for repair. He also modified the data wire driver for Legacy. I put the data wires in groups so I can disconect a section at a time to make it easier to trouble shoot.
Jim D.

Pennsy484,

Sorry for all the sentences running together!
Was a tad upset at that moment!!

I originally tried using legacy base and was in contact with z- stuff.

That's when they said needed a mod to work with legacy.

So had a tmcc base doing nothing and hooked it up and ran into issues after 3 emails they no longer responded no reason why!!

My switch controllers are wierd first a green flashing light then hold for 10 seconds I timed it before going to flash from red to green.

After I let go they stop blinking goes to a solid green.

If I was lucky it would do as instructions said and accept switch ID #.

I'm trying real hard to get them to work but my patience is getting thin.

$oo

Disconect the data line from each machine 1 at a time. Turn the power off and let the machines reset. This will help clear them. I found 2 bad machines in the same section. Took some time to figure it out. Take it slow you'll get it.
Jim D.

all above are true!

okay here is the story, first only one machine will work rest nothing yet all 5 dz-2500's work using button on switch machine.

then data driver stops sending commands yet tmcc base is sending commands good 1 out of 6 functions working.

so disconnect all but first switch and remove data wire from other 4 machines poof that #1 switch machine is now working and data driver is back working too I haven't done anything except remove that other blue data wire from terminal strip from white data wire connection from dz-2001!

so I hook that other data driver wire back on switch #1 stops working and red light on data driver is bright red hmmmm???

so trace all wiring connected correctly red to red black to black and data wire [blue to blue]. also at this time I no longer have power to other 4 switch machines temper is flaring big time!!

get meter out and guess what I have power to all wires yet switch machine leds remain dark.

so in desperation I remove 12 volt ac adapter wires remove power wires going to first switch machine and run power from another transformer supplying 19.9 volts ac walla those 4 switch machines now have power hmmm???

so I run another set of power wires from that other transformer to power all 5 switch motors reconnect power wires going to switch #1 reconnect all data wire drivers and poof it all works!!

so all you electronic folks that have really good electronic savy what in ja hosa fat is up with this?

was I fighting a lack of enough power to run all 5 switch motors? the 12 volt supply was set at 12 volts but the milli amps were only rated at 300 so help me understand this as its mind boggling to say the least.

I did try the 12 volt supply again and poof all 4 switch motors were dark again!!

$oo

The reason they are only throwing one way is that they are in DCS mode not Tmcc. The ten second program is for setting ID numbers.

Read the part about disconnecting the power at the right moment to put them in TMCC mode. When they are shipped the can be some tmcc and some DCS.This is probubly why you are going nuts and thinking they are defective.Also this will make the driver red light act goofy having 2 different programmed switches.

I bought 40 of them and i thought 18 of them where bad. I did like you 3 hours of testing, only to find out that you must program each switch to TMCC FIRST.Even though its the last thing in the instructions. All 40 work flawless now except the occasional misthrough when an engine is on the switch


Also the Data driver and the 2500 MUST share the same ground.

Try that also.

patrick, they now work or last time I tried them they were.

I was going to use another on a hidden switch but will insrtead use a tortise as I've had these 20 for alooooong timew and in a hidden area I trust them more than these current ones.

thanks for the heads up will see if I can figure out the correct way to get these to program if I so chose to change there current ID #'s.

$oo

I just read the product sheet on these DZ2500 switch motors...these are neat, feature rich. Wonder where I could use them

Patrick H,

I read instructions included with dz-2500 so it says set switch to red light and it goes to diverging route,

then hold for 4 seconds after it turns green ok.

now it starts to flash slowly green to red if I release button there then a steady green light shows no flashing of any kind is this the correct mode area to set tmcc switch id# address?

from the above if I release the button they never go fast blinking so what am I doing wrong?

$oo

quote:

Originally posted by cjack:
I take it that the DZ2001 is connected to a tmcc base and not the Legacy base, correct?

that is correct no legacy base connection to the tmcc base.

both are free standing on there own z-stuff said if I sent it back he'd make the mod for free so it would work with the legacy base.

but I went this route instead, $oo

quote:

gregj410

looking at last photo of your driver mine has wiring different mine is red black and white wire is closest to your serial com plug end.

so did they make a change ? mine is only 6 months old possibly less.
$oo

quote:

Originally posted by $oo Line:

quote:

Originally posted by cjack:
I take it that the DZ2001 is connected to a tmcc base and not the Legacy base, correct?

that is correct no legacy base connection to the tmcc base.

both are free standing on there own z-stuff said if I sent it back he'd make the mod for free so it would work with the legacy base.

but I went this route instead, $oo

I think you will be better off getting a booster amplifier from Dale M. Check those threads I mentioned. With his amp, you will escentially have better drive power than the tmcc base has.

so are you saying his setup eliminates the command base all together? $oo

I think you will be better off getting a booster amplifier from Dale M. Check those threads I mentioned. With his amp, you will escentially have better drive power than the tmcc base has.[/QUOTE]

quote:

Originally posted by $oo Line:
so are you saying his setup eliminates the command base all together? $oo

I think you will be better off getting a booster amplifier from Dale M. Check those threads I mentioned. With his amp, you will escentially have better drive power than the tmcc base has.

[/QUOTE]

No I'm saying the Legacy base needs a booster amp to drive aftermarket devices from its 9 pin (RS232) output and the one Dale offers will allow you to use your Legacy base with these aftermarket devices.

cjack,

so does the dz-2001 driver still need the legacy fix as well as the booster amp from dale? $oo

quote:

Reply

Soo, i read all the threads above. I didnt see the part about only having a legacy base. Is this true? you dont have a cab-1 base connected to the Legacy?
If you only have Legacy base only then i cant offer any advice because i dont know this patch etc.. needed.

I know the frustration you feel, i went through alot when i first bought them. But reading the Instructions all the way to the end twice really helps.

When in programming the lights go back and fourth fast, this is when you cut the power to them to get them into TMCC mode, THEN you can assign them IDs the second time you put them into program mode. the instructions also tell you when you first power them up there is a certain blink for Tmcc and a blink for DCS, you can identify the mode by this initial blink.

After that they cant be anymore simple. 3 wires for the switch motors. The only thing that is NOT explained in the instructions is that the Data drivr Ground and the Switch motor Ground Must come from the same Transformer and share the ground.I use 14 volt for the data driver 17-18 for motors.

quote:

Originally posted by $oo Line:
cjack,

so does the dz-2001 driver still need the legacy fix as well as the booster amp from dale? $oo

No, the booster amp is capable of driving the DZ2001 as it is.

thanks for the info cjack,
and dale already e mailed me on how to get in touch with him.

$oo

It's great what Dale did but it's another example of the in-compatibility we suffer in O gauge. Has anyone talk to Dennis at Zstuff about making a data driver that would work with a Legacy base without the need for a third party adapter?

according to Dennis at z-stuff the mod he does to the dz-2001 data driver is supposed to cure the incompatibility with the newer Legacy Base.

$oo

quote:

Originally posted by $oo Line:
according to Dennis at z-stuff the mod he does to the dz-2001 data driver is supposed to cure the incompatibility with the newer Legacy Base.

$oo

It's close to working, what he did. But even if it just worked, the Legacy base wouldn't be able to drive anything else at the same time. And in the case I worked on, the fix was very marginal mostly due to the Legacy base. Dennis will have to change his driver substantially. A booster amp by a third party is a fast and permanent fix. Even if Dennis changes his driver to be no load at all, the Legacy base is still quite limited in it's ability to drive even Lionel's own assortment of products past and present.

When Lionel went from the tmcc base to the Legacy base, they most likely used a standard RS232 serial port chip to be compatible with a personal computer and the future computer applications with Legacy. I think these chips are generally lacking in terms of sourcing power. So here we are needing to drive some boxes like we did with the TMCC base, especially on larger Legacy layouts. Lionel may address the issue, but often the 2nd and 3rd party solutions are quick and sometimes better tailored to 2nd and 3rd party product needs.

Patrick H,
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
When in programming the lights go back and fourth fast, this is when you cut the power to them to get them into TMCC mode, THEN you can assign them IDs the second time you put them into program mode.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I re read the instructions according to Z-stuff set to red position then hold button down for 4 seconds after the switch changes to green position.

the green light will flash, then the red and green will alternately turn on and off.
this is the state for setting the address so release the button and the red and green lights should now flash rapidly and be ready to accept an address.

this is direct quote from there instructions no where did it say to turn power off and back on.

now my main problem is after the green red and green light flashes from there on if I release it I get a steady green light no quick flash as indicated so where did I mess up following his instructions am totally baffled.

only place I read to turn power off was at the beginning where you initially wire them up and turn on for first time so is this what your referring to and not the Programming section at lower part of instruction sheet?

while were all discussing these machines and data driver I was under the assumption that the dz-2001A was already legacy modified which is why they went away from the data driver.

am I incorrect please advise.

as to needing another amplifier board seems like this product needs to be redesigned to be totally compatible with legacy.

and cannot say one way or other on legacy base as some say it's limited to what it can drive yet I have 2 tpc's and 6 bpc's working using legacy base and cab-2 so wheres the problem using multiple devices on legacy just trying to understand it all.

in closing after a 12 hr power down hey there still working!

I wonder what the next kafuffle awaits me around the next curve?


thanks for all the help so far, $oo

quote:

Originally posted by $oo Line:
while were all discussing these machines and data driver I was under the assumption that the dz-2001A was already legacy modified which is why they went away from the data driver.

am I incorrect please advise.

as to needing another amplifier board seems like this product needs to be redesigned to be totally compatible with legacy.

and cannot say one way or other on legacy base as some say it's limited to what it can drive yet I have 2 tpc's and 6 bpc's working using legacy base and cab-2 so wheres the problem using multiple devices on legacy just trying to understand it all.

in closing after a 12 hr power down hey there still working!

I wonder what the next kafuffle awaits me around the next curve?


thanks for all the help so far, $oo

The DZ2001 is already modified for the Legacy base as you say, but we found out that it while it functioned ok by it self it seemed, the a new TPC connected to it would not work. I believe an old pre Lionel TPC following it did work.
Lionel did say that the Legacy base could only drive three (new) TPCs. Don't know about BPCs, etc. Anyway all these variations of this works but that doesn't were solved with a booster amp attached to the Legacy base followed by the DZ2001 and whatever you want to drive. You just have to split off the connections to a PC computer before the booster amp.

first off wanted to say that you have all been so helpful and wanted to show you in print.

now the update I was curious as to using the legacy base as my first attempt of plugging dz data driver in didn't work but-----

with getting a bigger transformer to power data driver and switch machines and getting the wiring correctly hooked up I decided to plug data driver back into legacy base and using the y cord attached it back to the tmcc base and it works using cab-2 or the cab-1 horayyyyy.

yes I plan on leaving the tmcc hooked up as if it goes poof again I can use cab-1 to trouble shoot as a backup.

I'm 99.999% sure I was fighting a lack of power for the dz components to function properly in regards to all switch machines throwing from straight to diverging routes.

will still work on the programming mode on how to access it and will write it down once I figure out the correct way so can eliminate future errors on my part!

thanks again now onto my hiawatha speaker which I need to see if local hobby shop stocks it in repair center, a Big Thanks again to all for your ongoing support for us in need of help. $oo

Glad everything is working out. Another issue I will have to remember if I ever get Legacy

quote:

gregj410

What is that square box on the Legacy cable in the second photograph?


My Legacy cable does not have anything like that.

quote:

Originally posted by Trainman9:

quote:

gregj410

What is that square box on the Legacy cable in the second photograph?


My Legacy cable does not have anything like that.

That's a ferrite clip on choke. It minimizes the rf noise that is transmitted along a cable which can cause interference to radio, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by cjack:

quote:

Originally posted by Trainman9:

quote:

gregj410

What is that square box on the Legacy cable in the second photograph?


My Legacy cable does not have anything like that.

That's a ferrite clip on choke. It minimizes the rf noise that is transmitted along a cable which can cause interference to radio, etc.

Yeah, what he said. I thought it was like a splitter since the end hanging towards the floor in the same photo is for a TMCC base. It's a 2 in 1 cable, Legacy and TMCC.

The data driver is upside down because the db9 is mounted on the Legacy base that way. There is no pin swapping, these connectors can be mounted two ways, right side up or upside down.

The tmcc base would be able to receive commands if the data driver was not loading the Legacy base down as it does and as we all (almost all) have been saying over and over.

So when you put the data driver back on the tmcc base, the tmcc base is not loaded down beyond its capabilities like the Legacy base, so it can drive lots of stuff (like Z stuff ). In fact the tmcc base can drive about 25 TPCs and the Legacy base can only drive 3 TPCs.

Have a wine cooler break at this point...


Not a wire, but add a booster amp to the Legacy base, and then plug in the driver card to it.

Again, if Lionel did not change the base output to be compatible with a PC, and had kept the tmcc base output circuit, then this would have been a cake walk too. BUT, the future Legacy developments are worth a little thoughtful change.

Get the amp. Just remember to split off the connection to the computer with a Y cable and plug in the booster amp to the other connection of the Y.