E Unit consolidation

How many motors and what type (AC or DC)?  Need to know the total motor current draw especially when pulling heavy loads, so e unit current capacity is not exceeded.

@rrman posted:

How many motors and what type (AC or DC)?  Need to know the total motor current draw especially when pulling heavy loads, so e unit current capacity is not exceeded.

2 motors, AC, 101-1 reverse unit.

Total of 2 AC motors ( 1 in each engine).

Given that the standard E-Unit was used in a number of dual-motor locomotive, I can't see two with single motors overloading it.  I must admit, I was always impressed at the wimpy contacts in the E-Unit and the current they expected them to carry.

Just a 2 wire connection. The red circle is the tether between A units.

Thanks Rob.

In layman's terms, it looks like:

1. The motor and headlight in each engine get connected to the power wire from the intake rollers and to a body ground;

2. The 2 wires between the engines connect the respective brush points?

So there's no direct connection from the remaining E unit to the other engine's motor?

I'm not clear on #2.

Thanks

Years ago when I asked about this same thing,(2 powered 2343's, 4 motors ) I was told to 'lock' one e-unit in forward, and the other in rev. makes sense but ya can't back up.

@cpasam posted:

Thanks Rob.

In layman's terms, it looks like:

1. The motor and headlight in each engine get connected to the power wire from the intake rollers and to a body ground;

2. The 2 wires between the engines connect the respective brush points?

So there's no direct connection from the remaining E unit to the other engine's motor?

I'm not clear on #2.

Thanks

If you look closely at the second unit, its dual field  connections are reversed from the first units motor, ie the "upper" coil is connected to the seconds "lower" coil and vice versa, so that second motor runs in reverse rotation relative to the controlling unit motor rotation, insuring first and second units move together.  Basically wiring both motor fields in parallel except second motor field coils are reversed wired.  (sorry so wordy)

I would use a small polarized connector on tether so you don't have to carry both units around, or if you want to run controlling unit by itself.  Insure the female socket end is on controlling unit, as you would not want male prongs touching ground or center rails.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Given that the standard E-Unit was used in a number of dual-motor locomotive, I can't see two with single motors overloading it.  I must admit, I was always impressed at the wimpy contacts in the E-Unit and the current they expected them to carry.

GRJ

I suspect the contacts are making the current path, not breaking contact with its attendant arcing.  But have been surprised that those small blades do carry high current, though I have read that over time the current causes the blades to heat and lose tension, but don't have first hand experience to know if this is a truism.

Thanks everyone: works great!!

@cpasam posted:

1. The motor and headlight in each engine get connected to the power wire from the intake rollers and to a body ground;

Correct

@cpasam posted:

2. The 2 wires between the engines connect the respective brush points?

Incorrect.  There is no direct connection to the brushes between the diesels, only through the track for one brush and through the field coils for the other.

@cpasam posted:

So there's no direct connection from the remaining E unit to the other engine's motor?

Incorrect, that is the only  connection between the diesels... the two wires circled are wired directly to the reverse unit. The two loose ends of each pair of motor fields not connected to a brush on both motors are connected in (anti)parallel so they run in opposite directions. Parallel would have the A units in a tug-of-war if connected back-to-back.

@WT.Co. posted:

Years ago when I asked about this same thing,(2 powered 2343's, 4 motors ) I was told to 'lock' one e-unit in forward, and the other in rev. makes sense but ya can't back up.

This can be accomplished easily by locking the slave F3 in neutral, and a three wire tether(brush-field-brush) from one slave motor to one motor in the master F3. Switch the tether brush connections if they're going in opposite directions.  All four motors will run on the master E-Unit.

Lionel has maintained over the years that the 259E-1 architecture will support 4 motors using 22 ga motor wiring.

If the units cycle, F-N-R-N-F-N-R , why would it not be able to be started F-N-R and R-N-F (?), using both E units ? 

@WT.Co. posted:

If the units cycle, F-N-R-N-F-N-R , why would it not be able to be started F-N-R and R-N-F (?), using both E units ?

What if one misses a step and gets out of sync?  There's nothing to synchronize them.  This is the same issue that people double-heading conventional equipment with the electronic reverse boards, and even command stuff that's not lashed up into a single train.

It's easy for them to get out of sync, you do a reverse when one happens to stop on a dead spot on the track, poof you're out of sync.

@WT.Co. posted:

If the units cycle, F-N-R-N-F-N-R , why would it not be able to be started F-N-R and R-N-F (?), using both E units ?

If you've ever actually tried this, you would understand how hard it is to keep them synchronized.

LOL, I have, and like G R J said it didn't work so well, going through switches messed it up quick, but just steady running it seemed fine ????? To all 'Thanks" .

I solved the out of sync issue by tying both motors to one E Unit, with Rob's advice and diagram. Works great.

I found this thread dated circa 2020 detailing an E unit consolidation,  and it correlates with a question I have regarding two Marx double reduction motors. ADCX Rob posted an excellent wiring diagram depicting the how-to on a Lionel E unit. I tried to configure it to a Marx unit, but my limited electrical know-how doesn't permit it. So I was hoping one of you electronics gurus might tell me how, or even if it's possible to accomplish this.