ERR Cruise Commander 4.1 - Why does it need a "chuff in" connection? (Need troubleshooting ideas)

It integrates the chuff signal into the data communication line.

Thanks!  I'm also going to be using an ERR Sound Commander in the same upgrade.  I was planning on running a chuff signal to the Cruise Commander and separately to the Sound Commander.  Does this mean the chuff signal can get from the Cruise Commander to the Sound Commander via the serial data connection and that a separate chuff connection to the Sound Commander would be redundant / not needed?

GRJ’s instructions are very clear. Follow them and don’t second guess. If not sure give him a yell. Have fun.

NBGT posted:

Thanks!  I'm also going to be using an ERR Sound Commander in the same upgrade.  I was planning on running a chuff signal to the Cruise Commander and separately to the Sound Commander.  Does this mean the chuff signal can get from the Cruise Commander to the Sound Commander via the serial data connection and that a separate chuff connection to the Sound Commander would be redundant / not needed?

Yes. If the Cruise Commander is in the engine and the Railsounds in the tender you have the option of using either chuff input. You don't want to wire them both. If you use the input in the engine, serial data takes care of getting the signal to the tender.

Pete

I always use the chuff input on the ERR boards, and that's the way my smoke enhancement products were designed.  I've attached a schematic of the Super-Chuffer and Chuff-Generator installation with the ERR Cruise Commander for your reference.  The sound connection isn't illustrated, but it's just the three-wire plug from the sound board to the Cruise Commander, the chuffs are in the serial data.

FWIW, the Chuff-Generator is NOT compatible with a direct connection to the ERR RailSounds Commander.  The ERR sound boards require a totally isolated trigger signal, they do NOT share a common DC and AC ground.  In 50+ RS Commander installations, I've yet to ever have a need to use the RS Commander chuff input, and I suspect I likely never will.

NBGT posted:

 Does this mean the chuff signal can get from the Cruise Commander to the Sound Commander via the serial data connection and that a separate chuff connection to the Sound Commander would be redundant / not needed?

That is correct.

Not meaning to hijack thread but this question is similar to OP's question.

I have 2 locos that are upgraded to Cruise Commander Modular

one is lionel atlantic other is k line B6   both have railsounds boards in tender

I moved  chuff circuits to tender using reed switch and 2 axle magnets to approximate 4 chuffs/revolution

and connected reed switch to pin#11 (from square pin on RS board) and chassis ground

This works but is it correct? I had to figure which pin to use from old Train America wiring diagram.

Is there a better way?

On same locos what is purpose for black wire (ground connection from loco to tender)that is in 4 wire tether

it seems redundant ?

As always thanks for help

Dave

That obviously works Dave.  Of course, I think the better way is to use my Chuff-Generator on the locomotive flywheel and calibrate it to exactly 4-chuffs. That eliminates the messy magnets and reed switch glued to the tender truck, and also allows you to use the chuff signal with my Super-Chuffer to generate synchronized smoke chuffing.  That's what is represented in my previously posted wiring diagram.

ERR is sensitive to flaky grounds. That's why there is a ground connection from the loco to the tender. It should be left connected.

Any TMCC electronics is sensitive to flaky grounds.  On all my upgrades, there is both track leads in the tether, even if both units have center pickups.  Ground is the most important, I'll agree.

Thanks for the answers

I was going to repurpose the wire to tie the tender rollers to loco  as the atlantic has issues on switches

Maybe I'll go to 6  pin if available of 10 pin tether to solve issue

I like your super chuffer but space was tight on locos especially B6

dave

I'm making progress on my Southern 4501 upgrade project.  Most of the equipment is installed (ERR Cruise Commander v4.1 and ERR Railsounds kit and GRJ YLB installed in the tender) (GRJ Chuff Generator and Super Chuffer installed in locomotive) and I've been doing some testing.  There is an MTH 10 pin tether between the locomotive and tender.  I haven't yet installed the smoke unit and lighting in the locomotive.

I've been test running the locomotive.  It seems to run fine, but I haven't been able to get the Railsounds to chuff.  I am not using the dedicated chuff input pins on the Railsounds board, because it is my understanding that the chuff signal should come from the ERR Cruise Commander via the serial connection.  The steam background sounds, whistle, bell, and crew talk all seem to operate normally (other than the whistle and crew talk volumes don't seem to be adjustable via Cab 1 / Cab 2).  The chuff signal is coming from GRJ's chuff generator which feeds the ERR Cruise Commander and Super Chuffer in parallel (per GRJ's schematic).  I've temporarily hooked up the dedicated chuff inputs on the Railsounds board to a momentary on/off switch and have gotten a chuff sound through this test.

I'm looking for ideas to troubleshoot the setup.  

Is there a way to bench test GRJ's chuff generator to make sure it is operating properly?  I've got a DC lab power supply, so setting up a test rig shouldn't be too much of an issue.  I did notice that the red LED on the chuff generator is lit even when the calibration pins are not jumpered.  From GRJ's instruction manual I'm inferring that the red LED should be off during normal operation.

Is there away to inject a chuff signal into the ERR Cruise Commander?  Perhaps with a momentary on/off switch going from the chuff input to frame ground?

Any other thoughts?

Thank you!!

Are you seeing the LED on Chuff-Generator pulse at the correct rate when you rotate the flywheel?  That's the first test.

After a bit of troubleshooting, this turns out to be a case of installer error (me  .  I solder in the sensor part a little too high.  It looks like 2mm versus the specified 1mm.  I discovered that the Chuff Generator worked by running the left over tach tape underneath the sensor and saw that I was getting the LED to blink once.  I also was able get a chuff sound out of the railsounds board.

GRJ, any chance you could share the part # on the sensor so that I can order a new one?  The flywheel is such that I'll need almost the full length of the legs on the sensor, and I don't think I can do a good enough job desoldering it to salvage the sensor part with the needed leg length.

Another fix I could try is to print off some tach tape and "build up" the flywheel to the height I need (but this feels like a little bit of a junior varsity fix...).  If I were to go this route is there any significance to the width of the tach tape lines (do I need to match the original) or do I just need to keep them uniform.

Thanks!!

The sensor is a QRE1113, I got them at Digikey, but it seems they're out of stock right now.  QRE1113 at Digikey.  When I click on the Check Lead Time, I see they should have them soon if that's to be believed.

Thanks, John.  Mouser had plenty in stock, so ordered a few from them.

For future reference, is there any significance to the to the width of the black stripes on the tach tape, or do they just need to be uniform?

Thanks for your help!!

No significance at all, the calibration will adjust for any number of stripes.