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I put a Cruise Commander DS in a Lionel Copper Range 060 with no difficulty, followed the procedure in the manual to the letter. But the engine seems to run in one direction...or the other. That is, it will run forward, hit reverse and it still runs forward. Then at some point there it will go in reverse and regardless of the TMCC commands entered on the CAB2, still runs in reverse. I tried the push down on the button, rolled the button forward to determine direction and this worked slightly once in awhile. 

I looked at pin 16 on the R2LC with a scope and it sits at about +6 vdc when always running in reverse after button pushes with a little millivolt change when pressing the reversing button on the cab. I haven't been able to catch it when it actually does reverse or forward...ie, when I have a successful change in actual motion. What are the proper voltage changes on pin 16 of the R2LC? I take it that there must be a voltage level there applied to the motor board that reverses the direction of the H motor driver transistors. Is there no schematic of these boards available? At first I thought that the motor board was at issue, but since there is no real change of pin 16 on the R2LC when reversing, I am thinking the R2LC is at fault...not that it is a hardware failure, but maybe a signal issue. I tried another R2LC board and had the same results.

I did notice that when running with the boiler on which includes the lights, the reverse button cycles the rear light on and off reliably...but the engine still continues going the same direction. Also when running, I get a flickering of the headlight and cab light. But when sitting still, throttle down, the lights are on steady...ie, there is a good TMCC signal getting to the engine. I put a 1uF bypass cap on the motor but it has had no effect on the problem.

BTW the horn works and sounds when programming the ID, the Features, etc.

Last edited by cjack
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Originally Posted by Boxcar Bill:

Chuck,

 

   How long have you had the Cruise DS.

 

Bill

That's the rub. I got the DS kit in May of 2007 and just got it out to install. The anti static bags were still sealed so I guess they were factory condition.

I was mostly wondering if someone would say "oh yeah...we had trouble like that in that kit and it was the motor board where you need to rebias the drive to the H array." Or something like that. I guess if I want to poke around on the motor board, I should know what the pins labeled JP2 do. The board is version 2006.

Originally Posted by cjack:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Bill:

Chuck,

 

   How long have you had the Cruise DS.

 

Bill

That's the rub. I got the DS kit in May of 2007 and just got it out to install. The anti static bags were still sealed so I guess they were factory condition.

I was mostly wondering if someone would say "oh yeah...we had trouble like that in that kit and it was the motor board where you need to rebias the drive to the H array." Or something like that. I guess if I want to poke around on the motor board, I should know what the pins labeled JP2 do. The board is version 2006.

  I would call Ken @ Elect. RR. Maybe they can repair it. I new you had to have for a long time.

 

Bill

Originally Posted by gunrunnerjohn:

OK, I knew of older boards with cruise, and I also wish they still had them!  Wouldn't it be great to have a Mini-Commander sized board with cruise?   I put plain TMCC in a Docksider, it was a challenge, a reverse board sized unit would have been super!

 

The board is labeled Cruise Lite. AND there is room for the engineer and fireman to sit where they originally sat. Nice board...

The confusing thing it that I can get it to go in reverse and forward some rare times of trying it which kind of say that the motor board is ok...but then maybe some part is on the edge of being biased wrong and the problem.

Further testing is showing me about 6 vdc on the forward pin #18 of the R2LC and also on the reverse pin #16 regardless of the reverse button being actuated.

Well, what comes out of the forward and reverse pins of the R2LC is PWM signals, they'd be DC biased, but they wouldn't be DC.  They typically go into an opto-isolator on a DCDR in a conventional locomotive.  On the full Cruise Commander and the Mini Commander 2 they are opto-isolated as well.  I've had a number of those opto-isolators go bad on DCDR modules.  Since you swapped the R2LC, and you're seeing something odd there, I'd look closely at the next components in the line.

 

I agree with Bill, ERR will probably fix this, though you might have to pay for it at this point.

 

Originally Posted by gunrunnerjohn:

Well, what comes out of the forward and reverse pins of the R2LC is PWM signals, they'd be DC biased, but they wouldn't be DC.  They typically go into an opto-isolator on a DCDR in a conventional locomotive.  On the full Cruise Commander and the Mini Commander 2 they are opto-isolated as well.  I've had a number of those opto-isolators go bad on DCDR modules.  Since you swapped the R2LC, and you're seeing something odd there, I'd look closely at the next components in the line.

 

I agree with Bill, ERR will probably fix this, though you might have to pay for it at this point.

 

Yes I was thinking that had to be. Riding on top of the dc is a small probably tenth of a volt pulse train which changes some times when I press the reverse button. I'll probably look at it again when I get it on the rollers and run the speed up and down which works well in either direction...when I can get it to rarely change direction.

Ultimately, I probably will have to send it to ERR, but just trying to understand how it's designed. Thanks for the info. 

Originally Posted by gunrunnerjohn:

That's exactly what I see when the opto's die.

 

Hmmm...I'll look at the board to see what they are. If they died, they did it at the first turn on. I am surprised at the failures I've had lately. I never experienced that with this stuff before and not with the ham radio either. But, it makes the day interesting. 

Update: I finally gave up after tracing the forward and reverse signals to the PIC processor. Emailed Ken at Electric RR for help and sent the board off.

In a week or so, I received it back all working well. It is installed in the Dockside and all is perfect. Putting the four little pipes down from the boiler into their little holes is a challenge.

Thanks so much Ken for the excellent service.

 

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