Yeah, the nerve Robert B. Claytor for up and dying...  How dare he!  Didn't he know how important we are?  Some folks just don't have any consideration for us poor little railfans.

Rusty

One thing you can say about that no nonsense and tough old school Bob Claytor..we will never see his kind again and I think it's us that that are the poorer for it. He would not pussy foot around with polls, rail fans paying for his roads heritage freight bill. He had a well deserved pride in his road and a love of it's history and I can no more imagine him going to the public for donations to run a steam program no more than I can meeting any politician who means what he says.

What can you say about Mr Claytor running the A himself at the throttle? Actions speak louder than a handful of maybe. As much as I would like to see the J run again, this whole tentative "plan" is irksome to this old grouch. 

He would just do it. Its a shame Hunter Harrison is such a hard nosed SOB ( as a compliment) that loathes steam as an unnecessary drag on P&L..he would get it done with a minimum of wavering.  I think mainline steam starvation ( unless you are in Minnesota, Wyoming or Ohio ) makes us not think twice about throwing cash at NS via the museum. Right or wrong, thirsty folks will pay a lot for a glass of water, or should I say, a chance at quenching their thirst.

Even if its a long shot.

Bob Claytor, whom along with his Brother I greatly admired, dealt with a very different Shareholder and Wall Street attitude than todays CEO is faced with where a penny a share of earnings decline can "hose" the stock value.

N&W 611 must have the vast majority of the tubes & flues removed from her boiler so that the ENTIRE inside AND outside of her steel can be ultrasonic tested for thickness, including the firebox.

Can't the thicknesses of various surfaces be measured from one side only? I mean with today's technology there's plenty of tools available to measure metal thickness from one side only. When a Nuclear Reactor is down for maintenance all the various piping is measured from the outside only...same with refineries.

Or is it some Federal Code that states must be measured from both sides?? Just wondering  

Yes. The FRA requires the INSIDE of the boiler barrel to be "inspected".

So, are there any 'succession plans' in place to nurture young interested steam engineers on the skills that those few older generation still have to secure the future of steam preservation in the US?

If there isn't then it is a distinct possibility that steam preservation will wither and die and all engines will reside as static musuem pieces.

Yes, there are MANY highly qualified "younger folks" coming up through the ranks. Some are even UNDER 20 years old!

I have a VHS of Bob Running the 1218 out of the steamshop for her first trial run in 87 and man he gives her the boot!!=get on the throtle hard=highballing her!..love seeing the blacksmoke comming out of her stack!!..When I'd posted about Bob..He keeped the steam program running because his love of the steam engine..He didnt clown around with polls and other stuff..electroliner well said on your post!..i get jump on my post Being first grader and other stuff!!.....Well i know my spelling isnt the greatest and grammer isnt to hot...,also I have to deal with being dyslexic and being ADHD..Id talk better then my typing ..At least I can read write and know my US history.. Kids these days dont!..PS we all are not perfect in this train site.

Yeah Bob ran both the 1218 and the 611 on different occasions, and he knew where the throttle was...and he put it to good use. 

Question:  Who actually own 611?

My dad and I just contributed some money for the study.I always thought this engine would run again,maybe this is the beginning of it being under steam again.

Dan

As I recall, the City of Roanoke "deeded over" ownership of 611 to the Virginia Transportation Museum, some time in 2012?

As of April 2012 the museum owns 611.

I will never forget my up-close and personal encounter with Bob Claytor and his then-young son, Preston in the summer of 1984. Mr. Claytor had just brought #611 and its excursion consist into Chattanooga, after which he accepted an invitation to visit TVRM. I was firing #722 that day when we made an unscheduled stop to allow him and his son to climb aboard the cab. Mr. Claytor took the right-hand seat and Preston took the coal scoop to fire the engine. I climbed up on the coal bunker boards and thus had a "bird's eye" view of a railroad President operating an antiquated steam engine (relative to the modern #611). After a quick review of the old-style brake stand controls, he took us smoothly back into the East Chattanooga station.

To state that Both Robert and Graham Claytor were simply steam men is an understatement:  They WERE, and always will be, the "STEAM BROTHERS", who brought untold amounts of joy and pleasure to countless railfans all over the world.

The best book written to date that chronicles the Southern and Norfolk Southern Steam Program is "Steam's Camelot" by Jim Wrinn. Chuck full of color photographs of every engine fielded by the program and many of its excursion trains and the officials and personalities that made it possible from its humble beginnings to the magnificent rebirth of the #611 Class J and the #1218 Class A. 

Seems to be lots of negative opinions about weather it can happen.....I prefer a positive attitude and while it may not be much.....I'll donate to the cause when it goes forward!!!

I have had more personal contact with 611 than any other mainline steam loco. Riden behind many but 611 is one of the few I have been in the cab and riden behind. Also the most modern of any.....and the most 'alive'.....

I donated to the study because I believe NS may be using the number of donations as an indication of public interest.  I'm hoping that if they see a lot of people donating, AND if UP does go ahead with the Big Boy restoration, then I think NS will pay for the restoration.

As much as I like to see such historic locos as the 630 and 4501 under steam again, the 611 Class J would have been a BETTER investment for main line excursion service:

A truly modern engine with roller bearings ALL around!

PLENTY of power to spare!

The look of a CHAMPION!

If all the time and money spent on restoring 630 and 4501 is added up, NS probably could have had a true "thoroughbred", the 611 Class J, up and running for the same amount of dollars!  

The 611 is a special engine and deserves to run...I know I would love to see her under steam again.  Hopefully one day she will be.

Very true, but they were starting from scratch.  If you go back to 2010, all NS really did to kick this off was throw a bit of money at the TVRM to speed up the restoration of 630.  From a pure out-of-pocket expense, that is nothing.

You have to do baby steps at this, because you are trying to change the culture.  Limited investment on the part of NS.  That way, if it fails, you aren't out much money.

You start small with something like 630 on a few trips a year.  Then, expand to bigger engines and longer trips.  Then, you go after something like the 611 when you are sure that you want to continue the program for a while.

Can I assume, then, that the consensus is that everybody is for this?

EdKing

Absolutely! Sure hope they get enough money to have Robert Yuill do it right!

I think everyone in the steam community would try to make sure the 611 was done right. I'm also sure many outside groups had eyes on the debacle that befell the 1361...

Sounds great to me.  If you've got a viable plan that makes sinking the money into her worthwhile (meaning some assurances from NS that you can run for a while), by all means go for it.  Hire the right people and do it right.

Yes, but somehow we've missed the revival of T&P 2-10-4 #610.  Always wanted to see that beast under steam.  Seeing one of those things in regular service at 70mph with the throttle on the roof had to be something.  Quite possibly the most formidable looking steam locomotive operated in the post-steam era.

Kevin

Ah yes, good old 610. Back in 1978, a two of us from the 4449 crew went to help teach the Southern Steam Crew how to fire an oil burner. My good friend Dick Yager went down there first, and I went down for the June 24, 1978 excursion (out of Knoxville I think). Don't get me wrong, 610 would pull one heck of a huge train and put on a show you wouldn't believe, but her rods/running gear made more noise than her stack. 

As far as 70MPH? More like 60MPH, and THAT was fast enough!

If that article in Trains (the same issue as the dynomometer test) was to be believed, the T&P did run the 600s at 70--although that had to be the upper limit of them.  It would have been cool if one of the later all-roller bearing 600s had been saved--pretty much the forerunner to the 2-8-4s and the first of the Lima Superpower engines.  That thing is a hoss of an engine.

Hearing 610 start from a dead stop on Christiansburg Mountain or pulling the SR Loops up out of Old Fort had to be an experience.  I heard from someone that Purdie and company finally solved that overheating pony truck towards the end, but it did seem to get into trouble a lot on the Southern.  Sounds like some extensive running gear work was needed also.  Probably a bit overkill for the Steam Program, even though it would pull just about whatever you put behind her.  I guess there just weren't many operating engines available at the time that would work for the Southern, so you take what's available.

per Jim Wrinn's book, I'm seeing a July 24, 1977 trip from Lexington to Knoxville, which would have been right at the start of 610's tenure on the SR.  I'm guessing that's the trip in question.  Just curious, how was it for firing?

Kevin

70 MPH with those small freight loco drivers?? 

I'd be skeptical also, but look up the issue.  Give or take December 1977 (maybe early '78--can't find it right now), Trains Magazine.  It's got 610 on the cover, the SR dynomometer test article, and the article on the history of the T&P 600s.  While it's possible that things have been...enhanced in the intervening years, there are a bunch of quotes, interviews with the guys that ran the 600s, and a personal recollection of trying to keep pace with a 600 at 70mph in a truck and not being able to gain on the caboose.  The engines may not have been designed by Lima to run 70, but it appears the T&P operated them at those speeds.  If you get a chance, look up the article.  The guy that wrote it was from the area and saw the engines running on a daily basis.  It's a very entertaining read, heavily researched and very well written.

Kevin

I made a donation tonight. More if she passes the test and goes for a re-build.

-Jim Herron

Gotta get this thread back on track, TURN UP THE VOLUME!!!!

I certainly am.

Bob

We once hit 55 MPH with Frisco 1630's even smaller drivers.  It was quite a ride.

Rusty

Now this is a real 4-8-4 !   5100+DBHP, and 80K+ TE...even a Dieselover has to show awesome respect.  Nickels on the way.  A living legend is better than stuffed and mounted, AFAIC.

I'm 18 and I'll be going to a training class in 3 weeks.  After that, I'll be learning my way around steam on a local tourist line, with the oldest operating steam locomotive in the country (now that the B&O William Mason is down) as well as a couple others.  I know they took on a couple other guys not much older than me over the past couple years.  Younger people are definitely interested in learning, you just have to get the ones that have an interest and maturity to do the job.  I'll admit that I don't know as much as the pro's do about steam operations, but I'm willing to learn, have a big interest in locomotives and their history, and also respect that it's a serious and potentially dangerous thing if not treated properly.

Up until a couple years ago I never thought I'd have the chance to work on a steam locomotive, but I got to talking with several of the crew members and they helped me get the information I needed to get involved.  I just had to wait until I turned 18 to join them.

Good for you, Jake. Now you also need to start studying about the basics/cause & effect of steam locomotives. See if you can acquire text books such as Locomotive Cyclopedias,  Corespondents Course text books, etc..

Good luck, and I hope you are mechanically inclined. You should have lots of fun too.

Well, I'm probably the only kid in my neighborhood that knows how to change my own oil.    I am pretty good around mechanical stuff.  My dad is a mechanical engineer, so I've always been exposed to machines.

I'll see what books I can find on the subject, I always like reading about that kind of stuff.  I assume they'll be starting me with the basics in the shop, and then hopefully I'll get in the cab sometime this summer to learn how to fire the locomotives.

I am sure Hot Water would agree, learning to fire and operate steam locomotives is one thing, learning how to fix and tune them involves quite another learning curve and task. That is why in an earlier post I mentioned Bill Purdie and Walter Dove[and of course there were others].

No reflection on the next generation of steam engine operators and potential rebuilders.

But experience gained by working on a broad array of locomotive types by those who did it daily was a very productive element behind Bill Purdie and Walter Dove's capable efforts during the Southern Steam Program.

Best wishes and best of luck to Jake and others that pursue the effort and the program.