Firebox Flare

Not that difficult, I have made a couple of types.  Here's a thread on the first one that is powered by 5V. LED Flickering Firebox Board

I also did a version that was powered directly from track power.  Here's both versions and the schematic for the AC version.

Fwiw most scale Lionel steamers made since the early/mid 2000s have "ash pan glow" as well as a "flickering firebox"

I.e.hudsons,berkshires,mountains,northerns as well as all articulateds. I suspect smaller scale locos and semi-scale locos do not have this lighting feature because of limited space.

The ash pan glow will be dim or off when the loco is idle and then increase in brightness as speed increases.

If you check out Rich Battistas recent Lionel Reading 2102 thread, the ash pan glow is quite obvious on his video.

The first ashpan glow was from Lionel in the late 30's on their 260 and 226E.

John Allen made one for his HO Gorre & Daphetid railroad in the 1960's.

I used surface mount LED's in the 90's for the Right of Way Locomotives.  It had a flicker driver. 

Use GRJ's circuit above.

Lou N

I try to specialize in Texas and Pacific. Few to buy and so far a Mike is the biggest other than the NYC mountain painted as a postwar T&P many years age. I am excited about the 3rd Rail TP 2-10-4 tho!

I don't "Have" to buy a lot!

My default rr of choice is Santa Fe. I do admit I own an Erie Triplex just because it's cool.

You guys are obviously very advanced and handy with electronics. I'm still tagging the transformer wires with bits of tape marked "A" "U" and so on...

The flickering firebox, even on the later Lionel Legacy stuff, doesn't look as good as my home-brew model, at least IMO.  The ability to have four independently flickering LED's of different colors really makes the firebox flicker look really realistic.  Maybe more like a fireplace than a steam firebox, but it's a very cool effect in any case.

In case someone wonders, the reason I used a 12V regulator was to spread the power dissipation around, some in the regulator, some in the dropping resistors.  If I used a lower voltage regulator, most of the voltage drop for all the LED's would be dissipated in the regulator and it would probably get pretty toasty.

The little filter cap provides just the spacing needed for the best effect from the LED's.  I put a piece of plain white paper right on the red lens of the firebox, that further diffuses the light.  You will notice I also sand the LED noses flat, that's to scatter the light as well.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

The flickering firebox, even on the later Lionel Legacy stuff, doesn't look as good as my home-brew model, at least IMO.  The ability to have four independently flickering LED's of different colors really makes the firebox flicker look really realistic.  Maybe more like a fireplace than a steam firebox, but it's a very cool effect in any case.

In case someone wonders, the reason I used a 12V regulator was to spread the power dissipation around, some in the regulator, some in the dropping resistors.  If I used a lower voltage regulator, most of the voltage drop for all the LED's would be dissipated in the regulator and it would probably get pretty toasty.

The little filter cap provides just the spacing needed for the best effect from the LED's.  I put a piece of plain white paper right on the red lens of the firebox, that further diffuses the light.  You will notice I also sand the LED noses flat, that's to scatter the light as well.

Is this the one you are putting into the GN S-2 awaiting upgrade?

Well... I would, but...  The flywheel is about 1/8" from the cab wall, there's no room for anything in there.  Remember, I said "if it fits".  It doesn't fit.   I need about 3/8" behind the bulkhead to mount it and have a little clearance.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

 

In case someone wonders, the reason I used a 12V regulator was to spread the power dissipation around, some in the regulator, some in the dropping resistors.  If I used a lower voltage regulator, most of the voltage drop for all the LED's would be dissipated in the regulator and it would probably get pretty toasty.

 

You are very correct. Ended up adding a 100 ohm half watt resistor to the RoW flickering ashpan!  Had parts melting off the board. 

Lou N

I guess the ROW folks didn't understand Ohm's Law.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I guess the ROW folks didn't understand Ohm's Law.

 

Yup, that would be me. 

Lou N

In the early days, right Lou?

Yes, just after vacuum tubes!

Lou N

gunrunnerjohn....I'm going to make a few of these for a project I'm doing. I understand the circuit and don't see any problem rounding up the parts. I could use the name or number of the OSH Park proto board. They list many. Enjoy your posts.

Richard

I had a club member put a firebox glow in my A-5 years ago. It does not flicker and I assume he just put a

bulb on the inside

.

DMASSO posted:

I had a club member put a firebox glow in my A-5 years ago. It does not flicker and I assume he just put a

bulb on the inside

That would probably be correct Don.

Rppoind posted:

gunrunnerjohn....I'm going to make a few of these for a project I'm doing. I understand the circuit and don't see any problem rounding up the parts. I could use the name or number of the OSH Park proto board. They list many. Enjoy your posts.

Richard

 

I didn't actually share them there, I didn't feel like typing in all the descriptions, etc.

I've attached the schematics of the two versions and the Gerber files for OSH Park.

Enjoy.

Thanks John

John

Thanks for the schematics on the AC Gerber do know what the value is for D5? Also what watt value would you use of R1 through R4?

So will this flicker firebox board work in a traditional size polar Express berk?

nvocc5 posted:

John

Thanks for the schematics on the AC Gerber do know what the value is for D5? Also what watt value would you use of R1 through R4?

D5 is a silicon diode, I use a 1N4148W-7-F for the diode, 300ma 100V.  The resistors are all 1/8W 0805 footprint resistors.

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

So will this flicker firebox board work in a traditional size polar Express berk?

I'd probably do some adjustments for conventional use.  I'd change the regulator to a MC78L05ACDR2G and the four dropping resistors to 220 ohms.  The PCB remains the same, just the part values change.

----------------------------

One point to be aware of.  The flickering LED's are very touchy about soldering, you need the lowest heat you can use and don't leave it on for any longer than necessary. I killed a few assembling these and had to replace them.  I'm planning on doing some experiments about the lowest heat I can do while still getting good soldering and see if I can minimize the LED losses.  This is one reason I haven't moved farther along in offering this as an assembled unit.

Also, you'll have to do a little filing of the LED flanges to get them all fitting flush.  It was necessary to keep them close together so they all fit in the typical firebox window, that's the only way I could do it with the LED's available.

Having watched some videos of steam engines working at night, the flickering fire is below the fireboxes and in the ash pans rather than the occasional firebox glare in the cabs of our model trains. I am thinking that an array of LEDs pointing down onto the track is more realistic.

Getting a little crazy, I think that downward flickering LEDs should get brighter when the when labored chuffing is selected.

Bobby, refer to my signature, repeated here.

Nothing is so easy as the job you imagine someone else doing.

As for early ash pan glow, I have an American Flyer Hudson that has it, from 1934, in O gauge.  Another interesting thing, it also has a cast aluminum tender, very nice and have made it through the years without metal fatigue or rust...... wonder why "others" did not do that.

Jesse     TCA

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Bobby, refer to my signature, repeated here.

Nothing is so easy as the job you imagine someone else doing.

You guys make it look too easy! 

That is, until we try these things ourselves. 

(Optimist - One who lacks experience.) 

Thanks John.

A little big maybe but perhaps adaptable by the creative types:

http://www.getfpv.com/lumenier...campaign=retargeting

http://www.getfpv.com/lumenier...b-arm-led-board.html

May be other similar products...

A tiny bit large for fitting into the available space!  Also, the flickering part has to show through a very small opening.

Height: 32mm

Width: 32mm

I noticed that too but thought it had a lot of cool functionality that could be applicable in some instances.   In my case, just sticking it on the end of a diesel or side maybe -- might well put a smile on my face.

Flickering "side thingy" ... new feature on diesels don't ya know...

texastrain posted:

As for early ash pan glow, I have an American Flyer Hudson that has it, from 1934, in O gauge.  Another interesting thing, it also has a cast aluminum tender, very nice and have made it through the years without metal fatigue or rust...... wonder why "others" did not do that.

I believe Marx did.  Check the tender of the Marx 333 4-6-2.

Old thread, but a good one. I'm having a few of John's boards made to add a better firebox flicker (thx for providing the gerbers John!). However I've only found red and yellow flickering leds on available on the web. I cannot find flickering orange (or and other colors). Any chance somebody knows a supplier for more flickering colors?

Thx

Bobby

@BobbyDing posted:

Old thread, but a good one. I'm having a few of John's boards made to add a better firebox flicker (thx for providing the gerbers John!). However I've only found red and yellow flickering leds on available on the web. I cannot find flickering orange (or and other colors). Any chance somebody knows a supplier for more flickering colors?

Have you looked at Evan Design? They have flickering LEDs in multiple colors, including orange. IIRC, I used one of them for a campfire:

[The video highlights the new smoke generator, but the Evan Design flickering LED was earlier added to, and is visible in, the 'campfire'.]

Thank you for the reply! I will check their site. I also just found some 3mm from China on that "bay" auction site. Though I think Evan Design would surely be quicker shipping than the ones from China. Makes a difference to use a full browser to do the search on a pc. Seems my phone left out some search results.🙄