Flyer Piper

that is a thing of beauty Steve

Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

from another forum I was asked to post a picture of my Repro Piper, so I thought I’d share it here as well. Also was asked if they made an O Piper. I am not aware of one. 

Here's the STD Piper

 

Here is a 3300 series O that resembles the Piper and would be fairly easy to modify.

I enjoy mine as well. I bought the newer NYC STD Piper by MTH.

Retrofitting the 3300 would be an interesting challenge. It looks like the main task is adding the piping under the boiler. I have removed the piping on my STD Piper, and it is delicate. There are three supports that hang down from the frame, plus you need to care for the hanger for the side rod piston. Bending the piping to exact lengths and drilling out the hangers is precision work, especially on the compressed model. I suspect you could only fit 3 rows of piping instead of 4.

George

That;s been on my "to do" list for a while. I've acquired way too many of the 3322 type locos over the years. I've been wanting to make one into an O ga. Piper. Probably one of restored ones. It looks to be fairly easy since there's already 3 screws down the running boards on each side for tin side covers for the brackets (or hangars). I may try to use one of an extra tin cover to cut up & drill holes for the pipes brackets. I know that there has to be clearance for the rods & valve gear. It still can be done. And bending the brass gets easy after practice. It's about the same as bending metal conduit. You just have to practice (and scrap out a bunch) and it gets easier all time. 

Interesting conversion! Keep us posted!

400Bill posted:

That;s been on my "to do" list for a while. I've acquired way too many of the 3322 type locos over the years. I've been wanting to make one into an O ga. Piper. Probably one of restored ones. It looks to be fairly easy since there's already 3 screws down the running boards on each side for tin side covers for the brackets (or hangars). I may try to use one of an extra tin cover to cut up & drill holes for the pipes brackets. I know that there has to be clearance for the rods & valve gear. It still can be done. And bending the brass gets easy after practice. It's about the same as bending metal conduit. You just have to practice (and scrap out a bunch) and it gets easier all time. 

Sounds like it would be reversible, so no reason not to try it! Now I need a 3300. Had it on my list anyway.

George

First let me apologize for the poor picture quality, it is from an old picture but i can't take a current picture without unloading half a closet. Below is a Piper in gauge 0 I made 25 years ago. I have a tender but it is not painted yet and I want to assemble a valve gear from parts from other flyer locos, so it is not complete

Also at that time I made a Presidential loco:

Roland

beautiful!

Steamer posted:

beautiful!

Second that! On both accounts!

Thanks guys

Roland

Roland,

Very Nice.  It makes me wonder why Flyer didn't make stock items like your examples.  What else do you have hidden away in that closet?

Northwoods Flyer

Greg

That's one of the next ones on my list.

Does the repro one have the hole for the ringer but no ringer? I haven't seen them too many times so I don't remember.

Greg,

I don't have anything else custom (although I have considered a 3/16 pacific running gear in a 1688 Lionel torpedo shell) I do have this Columbia car which you may have seen before.

What is interesting beside the coupler is the frame color and the absence of a roof locking lever or notches for light wires.

also note the lettering on the end of the car. (the car on the right below)

Roland

a Lionel 224E/675 motor works in a Torpedo shell nicely

Brian Liesberg posted:

That's one of the next ones on my list.

Does the repro one have the hole for the ringer but no ringer? I haven't seen them too many times so I don't remember.

 

Brian, mine is the traditional version so it has the bell ringing action. I assume the PS version would also have the holes without the ringing motion, but someone else would need to confirm that.

Steve

That would be a tough choice, working bell or chuffing smoke.

I don't have any AF Wide Gage rolling stock yet, would this locomotive fit better with 500 or 200 series Lionel cars?

Brian Liesberg posted:

That would be a tough choice, working bell or chuffing smoke.

I don't have any AF Wide Gage rolling stock yet, would this locomotive fit better with 500 or 200 series Lionel cars?

I bought this as a preorder and wanted the working bell at the time. If I were to do it now, I'd go for the smoke and can motor.

Flyer freight cars are probably closer to 200 series.

Steve

Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

Flyer freight cars are probably closer to 200 series.

Steve

Guys, they are shorter in height, narrower, but longer...more US railroading proportions than European, or toy like Lionel.

One of the members needs to make a jig to bend brass wires and make about 100 sets for the 3300 ( or 3322) locos and sell them as kits. The angle brackets are just little pieces of sheet metal bent on a brake. Those could be sheared up in bulk, stacked flat 10 high and holes drilled before to the 90 degree bend.

I knew I was going to miss all my machine shop stuff, and I sold it for cheap too. And used to have a friend that would have loved to have made these and would have sold them for very little. He just loved doing machine work for trains, mainly the outdoor 7.5" gauge.

Someone close to Harry Henning should ask him who does the bending for his handrails, and maybe something could happen. I used to know train guys in the outdoor railroading hobby that could take a straight piece of round stock and bend into art if they needed to. This would be a "cupcake" for those old-timers! 

When bending the rod for the pipes, you will have to bend a kick out to clear the brushes and bearings. if you tap the brackets you can reuse the screws that hold the black plates to the running board.

Roland

Roland,

On the Presidential loco, I have a nice 3115 body. Did you scratch build the trucks & attach to a 3115 frame? I was thinking on putting the 3115 body and a 3020 loco & brass up the trucks & frame.

Bill,

I used the original frame and scratch built the trucks around the cast pilots with sand domes. There are two versions of the frame. One has a short pilot casting where the sand domes sit close to the body (also seen on a 3015) 3115s generally come with the long pilot casting . I used the short casting and made the visible truck wrap around the lugs that rivet into the normal frame. There is a smaller sub frame that is a simple U shape that carries the wheels. The wheels are repro pilot wheels from a Lionel steamer (258 etc). The brass rail is simply brass rod bent and soldered into a piece of thick brass stock cut to L shape. The main frame was modified by cutting the ends to a curve shape and adding a piece of steel to each end to have a mounting point for the trucks. I also had to cut the end of the sides to clear the truck. Finally I had to bend the motor mount arms on the frame to raise it enough to clear the trucks. I looked at an original Flyer wide gauge Presidents loco, took measurements and scaled it down, making adjustment where necessary to work with the castings and frame that I had.

Roland

rdigilio posted:

Greg,

I don't have anything else custom (although I have considered a 3/16 pacific running gear in a 1688 Lionel torpedo shell) I do have this Columbia car which you may have seen before.

What is interesting beside the coupler is the frame color and the absence of a roof locking lever or notches for light wires.

also note the lettering on the end of the car. (the car on the right below)

Roland

Roland,

Very interesting variations.  I have one set of the Columbia cars.  I wasn't aware of the variations.  I will have to be on the lookout.  Any theories on the differences?

Greg

Greg,

Yes, I believe the car with the brown frame is the first version. The car next to it with the black frame, wiring notches and normal yellow lettering has the coupler that is simply a flat end bent into a sort of upside down "U". That coupler is generally considered to be the earliest coupler, but in looking through a friend's large size 1924? catalog there were pictures of Illini cars with the folded "U" coupler on one page and on the previous page was the folded triangle coupler that the brown framed car has. The car was sold to me as a common Columbia car. So my conclusion was that the brown framed car is the first version as it was probably more cost efficient to paint the frame black rather than having separate colors for Illini vs Columbia (the tanks and steps are painted black). The brown car has no roof latch so it was never intended to have lights so I am guessing the lights were an improvement to the subsequent cars. My only support for this is the pictures in the 1924 catalog showing both early couplers (as it is a black and white catalog I can't be sure of the frame colors).

Roland

I finished my O gauge AF brass piper this weekend. Well, almost...

She runs good forward with a little wobble. I had trouble setting a new wheel and may have bent the axel or misaligned the wheel. It's hard to see spinning it by hand. She does not run in reverse with the reverse lever pulled up; she just sits and hums after a little jerk backward.

Also, I have no bell ringer or boiler light. I want to at least add the boiler light.

Here are some hints at making and installing the piping if you try this at home:

• Needle nose pliers are great for bending the brass rod, however you may want to wrap the ends with electric tape to not nick up the rod
• I attached the outside hangers, but the inside one is just loose and helps keep the spacing
• I free drilled the hanger holes. I marked the spacing and used a punch to set a spot for the drill bit to bite. This would work better with a jig and/or a drill press
• I used a wider piece of brass stock for the rear hangers. The mounting hole for the original side skirts is set further inward on the frame. You will need to trim the back end of the lower part of the rear hanger to clear the wheel flange
• One side of the piping must be bent outward to clear the motor brush holders, or I assume it will short the motor 
• Finally, the hanger for the piston rod will be in the way. I removed the spacer and bent the piping around the mounting hole. Do this before mounting the piping for best results. Also, I think it looks better if the piping goes around the hanger mount, unlike what I show here. I have since changed that

Good luck!

George

Now you need a set of three #3171 pass cars & a 3172 obs in the late green with silver roofs, and strip & paint the roofs the matching dark aqua green and you'll have the last version of the Presidents Special in O gauge.

And I need a good color match paint for my roofs. Does anyone know of a source for paint to match the roofs of the latest and last version of Flyer's green Presidential cars? I have original wide gauge cars and the best match I've found so far is an old can of Charlie Woods Ives Cadet Blue. But it's still too blue.

Bill