Formula for mixing white glue and water for gluing down balast

I always used Matt Medium, and mixed it the about the consistency of whole milk. One of the advantages with Matt Medium is, it can be easily "softened" with cheap 70% alcohol.

Based on advice I received at the time, I used a mix of 50% water and 50% Elmer's white glue on my last layout with a splash of liquid dish detergent.  Big mistake:  Sure, it worked fine to put the ballast in place, held it down, looked great, BUT when I needed to disassemble the layout when we moved, it was chiseling a concrete sidewalk.  Next time, I'll use less glue, maybe only 33% or 25%.  You might want to experiment a bit, but the 50/50 mix was a bit too strong in my experience.

@Pat Shediack posted:

Based on advice I received at the time, I used a mix of 50% water and 50% Elmer's white glue on my last layout with a splash of liquid dish detergent.  Big mistake:  Sure, it worked fine to put the ballast in place, held it down, looked great, BUT when I needed to disassemble the layout when we moved, it was chiseling a concrete sidewalk.  Next time, I'll use less glue, maybe only 33% or 25%.  You might want to experiment a bit, but the 50/50 mix was a bit too strong in my experience.

That is one of the big problems with using "white glue" (Elmer's or any other brand), i.e. it gets HARD! When using Matt Medium for ballast/scenery, etc., it never really gets "hard" but stays resilient and thus helps in sound deadening. Matt Medium is very easily softened with cheap 70% alcohol.

Hot Water, point well taken, do you just put the Matt Medium on straight or do you dilute it slightly?

Thanks for your reply.

@J. Motts posted:

Hot Water, point well taken, do you just put the Matt Medium on straight or do you dilute it slightly?

Thanks for your reply.

As I stated above, I mix it to the consistency of whole milk (when doing our layout I was purchasing gallon jugs of the concentrated Matt Medium from Scenic Express, thus it had to be thinned). Prior to applying the thinned Matt Medium, the area to be glued should be moistened with cheap 70% alcohol, thus the Matt Medium will quickly capillary into whatever you are glueing down (like ballast).

I used Elmer's Glue-All for all of my ballast, diluted 1 part glue to 4 parts water with a few drops of dish detergent per pint.  Using less glue holds the ballast firm but when the time comes to change something, spraying with water (again with a few drops of dish detergent) and waiting 30 minutes or so lets you remove the ballast with a putty knife or similar tool.  The removed ballast can also be re-used.

@Bob posted:

I used Elmer's Glue-All for all of my ballast, diluted 1 part glue to 4 parts water with a few drops of dish detergent per pint.  Using less glue holds the ballast firm but when the time comes to change something, spraying with water (again with a few drops of dish detergent) and waiting 30 minutes or so lets you remove the ballast with a putty knife or similar tool.  The removed ballast can also be re-used.

This is what I did and 20 years later when taking down the layout to move soaked with a spray bottle of water and a little Dawn Dish detergent and it was very easily scraped of and the Gargraves track was pretty clean and reused on the new layout.

I run a bead of 100% glue along the edge of the end of the ties to hold the ballast, And keep it from spreading to far from the end of the ties.  Then I do the 25% glue to water with soap dripped on to the ballast.

I also add gray, black or brown to the glue mix to change the color of the ballast.

P.S. I use baby chicken girt for ballast, which is mostly white in color. In the the above picture the ballast glue has gray paint in it. Also the bigger rock in this picture is real and from my driveway

I've always used Elmer's white glue diluted with up to about 80% water and a few drops of dish detergent. It has held up for over 30 years, and if I do need to make a repair all I do is use a bit of warm water to loosen the ballast, remove it, put into a strainer, rinse, dry, and use again.

FWIW. An empty Elmers glue bottle makes an excellent applicator.

I want to thank Hot Water, Pat Shediack, Bob Bartizek, Rick, CBS072, Modeltrainsparts, and RickO for the great tips and comments, all are very helpful.  CBS072, your pics are really nice too.  Nice switch engine you're doing up, coming along nicely.  I have a section of track (GarGraves) down at the Club that someone must have leaned over the glass and used their big beefy meat hook to steady themself while trying to reach a car or locomotive and they managed to bend a low-spot in the track.  It is deep enough that on various engines, it will make the pilot dip enough to short the rails and cause some pretty serious pitting.  The low spot has been fixed and now the balast needs to be re-glued in place.  A word of caution/advice whatever, DON'T use carpet foam as your sub-roadbed (it was done many years before my arrival) as it just doesn't work.  It doesn't do a good job of sound deadening either.

Thanks again for all of your answers, they are very much appreciated.

Cheers,

I started out using water, dish soap and alcohol, then realized windshield washer already has these three ingredients so just use it 50-50 with Elmers.

Pete

LOL, I would have never thought of that, thanks Norton.

I do most all the steps mentioned by Keith "CBS072" above and agree with Rick O that the Elmer's glue bottles make great applicators.   I sifted my ballast out of crushed gravel, I mix it with several other ballasts that I have purchased over the decades, so that I get variation in the appearance.  I definitely do the full strength glue application outside the ties to form the shoulder.   I also will tint the final diluted glue mixes with grays/browns.    Over time I have increased the amount of alcohol 70% I put in the mix and reduced the amount of water so that I am not soaking track and wood ties with water that takes 2 days to dry.  I will typically just spray a mist of 70% IPA over the area after the ballast is where I want it, to stop the "surface tension"..   Remember to put cardboard, or paper or a dropcloth under the area you are ballasting if you have holes bored for wire leads, or seams between roadbed and surrounding scenery.   I also take 91% IPA and apply it to a cotton cloth wrapped around a wood block and clean the tops of the rails when a section is done to remove any residue.