Garden railroad

Gargraves makes a stainless steel track suitable for outside.

Bill

I had an O gauge garden Railroad. It went out the basement window down the side of the house under the deck and around the pool. I used Atlas track. It was solid and you could stand on it. I mounted the track on pressure treated 2X4. It was at ground level. The only draw back was keeping the track CLEAN. It was a pain in the neck. I had a pole sander to clean the track but it was hard getting under the deck. Maybe your route will be more accessible. Good Luck and post some pictures as you build it.

Jim D

Thanks for the tips guys,

Hi Jim, I'm retired from Orange County FD, Florida after 30 years. Glad to see another brother made it.

The track will have a tunnel or two and a couple bridges and a water fall, but the rest of the line will be out in the open.

I saw a track cleaning car the other day on one site or another and what I liked about it was that it had a scotch bright pad that rather then being fixed (which allows them to get dirty quickly ) was motor driven and rotated. Kind of like a floor buffer, it was set at an angle so that the face edge wore down but was always moving allowing for better cleaning. Looks like one of the first scratch builds I will need to attempt. great talking to every one.

Stan

You may want to check out this post about the G&O garden railroad.  It is both outside O gauge and G gauge.  

http://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/t.../the-gandamp-o-story

The O gauge track is Atlas 3-rail.  It is the only 3-rail track that has solid nickel silver rails and UV plastic ties.  Some of it has been in the CA weather for 10 years without problems.  The G gauge track is LGB.  Again, it has UV plastic ties.  

I would suggest that you use Atlas O gauge track instead of trying to lay your own.  Wood ties without being treated just like real railroad ties won't last long in the FL weather.  I also suggest that you raise your track above ground level.  It is too hard to bend over to maintain track on the ground as you get older.  I know, I am retired too.  

Here is a link to YouTube Video of an O gauge garden railroad that was built on a raised trestle.  Ron has several other videos of his layout that you might find useful.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Rz3nfjumUY

Good luck with your project.  O gauge outdoors is great.  NH Joe

If I understand what you want to do is run G scale stock on O gauge track ?  Fine. This is Gn3 and is a recognised scale/gauge combination.

I dont know what track may be commercially available for outdoor use. A lot of track can't be used outdoors and you may have to build your own.  I suggest you Google Gn3 and go from there! (also try 16mm)

I have an O gauge garden layout here in the UK and, as others have suggested, I use Atlas track. It is 3-rail but you can get 2-rail track.  But it is for "standard" not narrow gauge gauge so the tie spacing would be wrong for your purposes. (If you don't mind that - good - its your railroad!)

I have some G scale stock and have thought of doing that but the clearances wouldn't work so I haven't done it. (along with getting some live-steam 16mm stuff.....)

best

Andrew

Forgot - also try the Garden Railway Forum ! (Gardenrails.org  - I think..)

NH Joe thank you for the link, I read every page and poured over the pictures, it has given me so many ideas to start planning a build thank you again. I have already determined that as I get older the ground seems to get further away, so yes I am going to raise the garden by 12-18 inches to get started and go from there. As I told someone in another thread Money is an issue for me and I may have to lay my own track rather then buy it unless I can get a really good deal.

I have some ideas from other interests in my past that should allow me to use wood ties with preservative that will give me a long shelf life, especially if I keep the ties well drained which is the plan. What ever I do it's about having fun and I certainly am doing that.

Hello, Andrew, hope all is well on your side of the pond I have some dear friends living in Doncaster that I have known for 25 years.

I was researching what I am trying to do but never could put my finger on any  info that gave it a particular scale name, I thought it was Gn3 but Since G is an umbrella scale covering several scales 1:20 1:22.5 1:24 1:32 I wanted to make sure I got it right.

In another thread I posted I was shown how to calculate the scale and using off the shelf  (as an example) 3 rail 1.25 gauge as 3 foot NG and scaling up, the cars will be G @ 1:24 scale 1/2 inch to the foot. (After adjusting the fudge factor).

I was told that in years past this was a scale some used but eventually it went away as people ( I guess ) just wanted to shake stuff out of a box and be done with it regardless of price and settled on 45mm track.

Personally the budget does not allow for commercial grade G track. we work with what we have and we have fun doing it, at least that is what I always believed. Plus I am enjoying the challenge.

Cheers mate

Stan.

Hi Stan,

Great topic you have here. If you use 1:24 scale the O track will actually equal 30 inch gauge. I have called it 1/2n30 in the past. 1:24 is 1/2 inch = 1 foot scale. I started building a short boxcar in this scale but will have to dig it out and take pictures of it. Actually I want to do something similar to what you are doing except in 3/8 inch 1:32 scale on O track. I have made a start on a few pieces of freelanced equipment in that scale. Also I have an O outdoor layout here in a Texas. It can be done and is quite enjoyable to me being outside in the sunlight with the trains. They seem to take on a more realistic look in outdoor light to my eye. You can hand lay track too. Look into what is called batten track. Basically hand layed ties on top of two side by side batten stringers. Then you can ballast over that.

Stan,

Here is an example of what I was talking about when I mentioned batten track. Now on this I made the ties in 1 inch to the foot scale representing 15 inch gauge like the size trains that would run in an amusement park or something. The rails are layed to O gauge and are code 215 tall. You can build this type track on the bench and then place it on the layout then ballast it. You could use what ever scale ties you end up deciding on when you lay your track.

Stan,

Here is that short 18’6” long 1/2n30 box car I started working on but set aside without finishing about 10 years ago. Width is 7 feet that is a good general dimension for 30 inch gauge rolling stock. 3 foot gauge stock was around 8 feet wide generally speaking and 2 foot gauge was usually 6 feet wide. Just wanted to show you what you could do with a few scraps of wood. The basic box I made from plywood of various thickness and the siding boards are coffee stir sticks glued on one at a time. I need to finish this.

Hi Phil,

I think your a clairvoyant LOL.

I wanted to get back to you sooner but was finishing up a "Honey Do" project. First off thanks for writing back and providing me with all this terrific info and great pictures.  Just exactly what I was looking for. I was thinking yesterday as I was working, about some questions I was going to ask and here you answered a lot of them.

I like the picks of how you hand laid the track on Batten's. I tried to Google batten track as you suggested and got no where.  Was going to write and ask for a picture or better explanation and today....WaLa there they are. 

On another thread I have a few of the guy's telling me that 1/2 to the foot is the wrong scale for 3R "O" gauge and also not sure now if I want to go with three rail at all. 

My original intention was to run my post war Lionel outside, I think I will leave those to an inside table set up and go with 2 rail "O" since I am going to hand lay my own track. I can still run the Lionel rolling stock in standard"O" gauge (Lionel fudge factor applied) and also build stuff like yours and run narrow gauge.

I have seen some narrow gauge logging dioramas  that really appeals to me in it's look, its....Looking for a way to describe the appeal? I don't know but when I look at it I want to just walk onto the page and be a part of it, does that make any sense?

Of course its an indoor work of art and I know I'm not going to get that detail (Scenic wise anyway) out doors but I just like the Back woods home built look of everything. Like it was cobbled together with what was available not a perfect off the show room floor look, that's not what I want to model.

Ill have a few more questions next time on rolling stock Like the box car you started maybe this conversation will get you back to finishing it so I can see how its done. I have lots of scale like material (Thin and small dimensions) but yet to build anything. And I went out and bought a box of 1000 stir sticks with the soul intention of using them as scale 2x 4,6,8,10,12,? material for structures and cars. More on that next time.  back to track laying.

Not to worry I only have a zillion questions to ask you, you got this right?

Seriously though....... A few people have said not to use wood  it doesn't hold up very well, however I have found people who have used wood and said it last a long time. I suppose it depends on what kind of wood you choose to start with, what preservative you use on it and how you apply  it,  what do you find works well? 

You mentioned code 215 rail is this the minimum Code I should run with and also what type of rail do you use? yours looks weathered.  (NS) Nickel steel seems to be the most available from the few suppliers I can find (Micro Engineering, Ll) to name just 2 unless you can recommend some sites. I can't find Brass in Big Code and no aluminum rail at all or should I not even think aluminum. (see next thought)

Last question for now do you run "Track Power" or go "Battery Packs"?  I'm leaning heavily in this direction (battery pack's and R/c) due to my physical limitations getting a little worse each year.

Sorry this is so long ill try to keep it shorter next time, don't want to drive you to crazy or scare you off. Great talking with you and again thanks for the pix.

Stan.

With an O gauge rail width of 1.25 inches, to model 3' accurately is about 1/29 scale (it is 36" per 3 feet /1.25 inch rail =28.8) if my calculations are correct. 

Hi Stan,

Just saw your post, thought I'd help out on a couple of things......................

If you want 1-1/4" O-gauge 3-rail or even 1-1/4" O-scale 2-rail track to represent 3'-0" narrow gauge, you would be looking at modeling 1/29 scale (or 1/28.8 scale if you're a real stickler).  If you are willing to fudge a little more, you could build all your equipment using an architect's scale of 3/8" = 1'-0", but this is 1/32 scale, which is a tad smaller than 1/29, of course.

But if you wanted to remain truer to 1/29 scale, you could simply take an architect's 3/8" = 1'-0" scale ruler and enlarge it on a copy machine by a factor of 110% (or 111% closer yet), make several copies, cut out, and glue to wooden sticks for your own 1/29 scale ruler.

On the subject of rails, if you want to electrify, then your best bet is to go with nickel silver or stainless steel.  Any other metal would either oxidize or rust, and need constant cleaning.  On the other hand, if you decide to go with batteries and R/C, then you could theoretically use anything you want for rails (with some choices being better than others, of course ).  Personally, I'd stick with at least some sort of metal. 

Hope this helps a little. 

Stan, I run code 250 stainless rail with UV resistant plastic ties from Sunset Valley.  It's been down over 4 years in the extreme heat of Las Vegas and I have zero problems with it.  One reason is that I used Splitjaw Railclamps which completely lock each section together (only 0.5v drop across 75 ft track).  A lot of the 45mm track comes as 6ft rail separate from tiestrips, you bend the rail (really easy) and slide the 12" long tiestrips on. If you go that route, stagger your joints, do not put the joints at the same point especially on a curve.  This makes your curves much smoother.  If you have any mobility issues, this is not a job you want to do twice.  I run track power with RC, but if I was starting over today, I would run dead rail (non-powered) cheaper aluminum rail and battery power.  My problem is I run a lot of different locos with radically different rolling stock so I can't use the same battery cars on all of it.  22ft long Denver & Rio streamline passenger train, LGB ICE with many extra cars, Piko Krok with LBG Orient Express Cars, plus others.  Stainless is nice though, I don't even clean it, I just blow the big stuff off with a leaf blower, chase the rabbits off and start running. 

Chris S.

Bigkid-Mixed- Freight- Paul- Fireone:

You guys are great, I learn so much from every one here on the forum. Thank You all very much.

I just spent the last 30 minutes writing the following which I posted on another thread about scaling up ward and when I was done and had finished posting it, I jumped over to this thread and you guys are giving me the answers I was looking for. 

Please read it any way to you can see what I mean by the "Look " Im, looking for. Ill look forward to your very infoemative and interesting comments

Mixed freight I really like the idea of making the ruler and using an architects scalke, I just happen to have one of those, correct scale also. 

I originally said 3 foot because all I seemed to come across in my research  was talk of 3' and 2' foot narrow gauge.

My understanding is that Ho track was used to model "O" narrow gauge.  I saw a scratch built logging flat car with a boiler mounted on it; a slap together roof structure of some kind and assorted tools hanging off the sides. I loved that look and proportion. 

Whether it represented 2' or 3' or something in between I liked the look of the exaggerated over hang of the engine and the short  little box like cars and wagons. That's the look I want!

Rather then scale the track down to Ho, I thought since Lionel trucks are so plentiful I would use Lionel trucks as a base and scale up so the cars are as proportional in look as Ho trucks are to "O" scale cars. 

Killing two birds with one stone, if I was to go with 2R rather then 3R I can still pull my Lionel rolling stock and just build a two rail engine to pull them.

Then use the same rails another time to represent narrow gauge with bigger vehicles.

So let me ask you guys this, if you start with any gauge be it N,HO, O, G and in my case Lionel 3r trucks and you want that particular gauge to represent 3 foot how do you calculate the proportions of the engine  and rolling stock to get that look i am after?

This info would be a tremendous help to me.

Stan

Stan,

To answer your last question. You just take the gauge of your track O which is 1.250” and divide that by 3. That gives you a figure of .416” = 1 foot on your model. This is the 1:28.8 scale mentioned above by “Mixed Freight” and “Big Kid“.

Now I got the feeling that you were not “stuck” on having your models be 3 foot gauge. I and others and you as well mentioned using a scale of 1/2 inch to the foot 1:24 scale because it is a round number and easier to work with when building than perhaps .416 to the foot would be. This means that the model will be slightly larger than if you built in the .416” scale. Also Then take the 1.250” O gauge track gauge and divide by 1/2”(.500”). That comes out to 2 1/2  times or 30” gauge thus the 1/2n30 scale. I would call this Hn30 perhaps rather than Gn3 or something. G uses a metric scale of 13.5 mm to the foot this is slightly larger than 1/2” scale which equals 12.7mm in metric. Though you will find in the US G has come to be a term used for most trains runing on Gauge 1 track. Gauge 1 is the next size track larger than O which many years ago used to be zero “0“ gauge.

So when you decide what scale you want to use it will be a simple task of finding and using a scale rule to help you with your building. Also it would be helpful for you to find some scale drawings of something you want to build. Even if it is in a different scale you can refer to it but use your rule to measure out your parts for the model. Hopefully this helps with the confusion and does tot increase it. Let me know if I can help further.

Can't wait to see what you build.  My 2 cents, if you are outside, use battery power with RC.  You will avoid a lot of track cleaning which I suspect will be challenging and frustrating over time.  

I can understand where you are coming from Phil now and given you are looking for the look and feel of narrow gauge railroading then scaling equipment to 1:24 seems ideal to me. You could use existing 1:24 or even 1:22.5 (typical in G) equipment and achieve what you want, if you think of it w O scale track working out to 30" prototype,the overhang would be more than if the rails were 36" scale.  So if you take a piece of rolling stock and put o trucks on it, would give you a nice look. Engines you would need to take an o scale mechanism and scrarchbuild or attempt to bash a g scale engine to go on it,but it would give you what you need.

To give you perspective, as far as I recall HOn3 (HO scale,N track) is 30" scale and I believe it is the same with ON3 as well roughly. Proportionally these trains have the same look and feel, so 1:24 should look great too. 

Phil, Necrails, Bigkid,

Once again thank you for great answers and advice. I will have a look at 1:24 scale on the O trucks and see what that looks like, Pretty sure in my minds eye that's what I want but will actually put car to truck to rail and have a look see.

When I come up with something ill take a picture and post it.

Once again Thanks for all the advice. 

Stan in Orlando.