GE Erie

Railroads are not buying new engines due to the EPA Tier requirements.  Even the NS is starting up a massive rebuild program for their older GE Dash8's and 9's.  My wife's father is retired from building 6(electrical windings) at the GE Erie, PA plant.    Mike

GE has their new plant in Texas but, I bet, it won't be cut back.  The Erie plant is old, lots of old labor problems there so these jobs are gone for good. I have dealt with GE and had friends there. The engine plant in Grove City seems to be OK.

Yet another slap in the face for PA's economy...

I thought that I heard that GE intended to completely close the Erie plant since the new one opened in Texas.  We were up in Erie a month or so ago and there sure wasn't much going on.  And the reasons mentioned was that not only was the facility old and not efficient but that the unions, over the years, have raised the cost of labor well beyond what they were paying at the Texas plant.

 

Wonder if the Texas plant has an attached test track as they do in Erie?

 

Paul Fischer

Keep in mind there is still a GE facility, Grove City, PA.  IMO  Current large corporate logic, is to have at least two facilities that can be pitted against each other to control cost.  The problem is that the policy doesn't consider the abilities of the workers at either site.   Again IMO

Mike CT.

The Texas plant is about 15 miles from my house. This new plant will, without a doubt, will cause the demise of the Erie facility over a period of time. We have a good supply of skilled labor, a better overall economic environment that is business friendly, and Texas is a "right to work" state. GE locomotive building in Erie is on the way out, like it or not.

Sorry to be the bearer of this bad news, but the handwriting is on the wall.

Layoffs and job eliminations .... followed by employee recalls and new hires a few years later ... repeatedly.

 

It must be rough on families/communities.

In my opinion, Erie, PA is one of the hardest hit, former"labor" cities in the country.  At one time it was the 3rd largest city in PA behind Philadelphia and Pittsburgh.  Today it must be 1/2 the size it once was and there are hundreds of vacant industrial buildings and even more empty sites.  Most companies that once called Erie home have left town or have gone out of business. 

 

One of those that most of you would know is the old Louis Marx company.  Of course, this company left many years ago but there are numerous others that also left, like International Paper Company to name just one.

 

Paul Fischer

The GE  Grove City plant is the only engine plant and an off shoot of GEs buying the Cooper-Bessemer diesel engine many years ago. The writing has long been on the wall for the GE-Erie plant. Bad strikes, high wages plus environmental issues helped bring it on. At one time Erie had a very large manufacturing base but the usual issues drove the companies out of town or business.  At one time plastics injection molding was big there with lots of local machine shops making the tooling and dies. Hammermill Paper, Kaiser Aluminum plus some steel mills and heavy  industry were all there. Plus a brewery !!  I think the Tier 4 locos, which have to be more expensive, had something to do with it, too.

Rebuilding old EMD is a time honored move.  Rebuilding old GE......not with my nickel !

I know EMD rebuilds have always been popular but never a reason as to why. Any ideas ??  I know new GEs were/are cheaper than EMDs.

Number one reason was/is there were/are SO MANY competitors producing engine parts/components as well as remanufactured electrical components, due to the extremely high volume of rebuildable EMD products out there in the world.

good thread

It's amazing that so many people who don't work, or never worked for GE/Erie, seem to know the problems associated with what's happening at GE/Erie. To assume that bad strikes have occurred is ludicrous. The last strike at GE/Erie was 1969. Yes, the GE employees at the Erie plant make great wages, but please know that it was GE's negotiator's and UE 506 / National UE who hammered out the results of the contracts. They weren't found in some cereal box. It may be that GE will leverage Erie against FT Worth, but that hasn't happened yet. The employees in Texas are making less wages and benefits than in Erie. That's no secret. I don't work at GE, but many families and friends will be affected, as will many businesses dependent upon GE. If you have been laid off or lost your job because of corporate greed, I empathize with you. If not, you don't know the pain, or loss of home, and sometimes the deterioration of marriages, associated with job loss. Maybe the politicians who control Harrisburg, and that have made Pennsylvania the second highest state with corporate taxes, start to realize, they aren't helping businesses. There are so many factors not talked about, but let's sacrifice the honest employees of GE/Erie, so that GE remains #1 in global transportation. Remember....GE is in bed with most of,  if not all giants of industry. Who do you think are on the board of directors? Seems THEY never lose their jobs or get laid off......nor take pay cuts.........Please have some empathy for those in Erie...It's the hourly workers getting the pink slips, not the salaried workers !

Get a grip !!  Who said there was no sympathy for the employees-hourly AND salary. I  traveled to Erie many times, dealt with GE and knew people who worked there.  GE threatened to close that plant more than once and has has layoffs before. I have lost two jobs because of age discrimination and saw the western Pa. industry collapse in years past.

Get a grip ????  Of course GE has threatened to close the plant before. That's what corporate bullies do when they don't get their own way. That may be a underlying result of the Ft Worth plant being built. No unions to deal with. Ever think about all the outside vendors shipping late? Yes, employees at times have waited for parts to assemble. When they say 1500 employees will be laid off, it's not across the board.....no salaried workers affected. Please keep your "get a grip" thoughts to yourself. All you do is perpetuate rumors......

BTW.....GE Transportation had a record breaking year financially in 2014. The business has changed dramatically. EMD is no longer an opponent. Their London Ontario plant folded when CAT bought them out, and the majority of employees lost jobs. Back in 1974 GE/Erie had 15,000 employees. They have had numerous layoffs and hirebacks due to a cyclical nature of the business. I'm not sure of present employment totals, but it may be near 4500 in Erie. And that will change according to recent news. For anyone losing his/her job beyond their control, I sympathize.

 

CAT owns Progress Rail, which bought EMD. If we are splitting hairs...Cat bought Progress Rail in 2006. I can't speak for CAW, so I won't.......When GE bought NBC, it didn't call it GENBC.......NBC retained the name, but it was a subsidiary of GE, and the officials at GE Corporate called the shots....not NBC.

Pennsylvania has had many adventures into job producing projects.  Westmoreland County, Midwestern part of the state,  saw Chrysler Corp, then Volkswagen, then Sony, and now I'm not sure what's there.

The most recent great adventure here is western PA is the Shell Oil Cracker Plant, Monaca.  Some believe there will be other cracker plants associated with the new found wealth of the Marcellous /Utica shell gas adventure.   Nothing last for ever, we have to be continually re-inventing ourselves.  

From following comments on GoErie.com & other online forums I got the vibe that the new GE facility in Ft. Worth, TX started out making traction motors & axles for mining trucks with electric drives for companies like Komatsu but recently became the only place for final assembly for North American Tier IV-compliant freight locomotives.

The older facility in Erie was still supposed to be the place for assembling export locomotives & from reading news on Railway Gazette, it appears like GE is getting a lot of orders from countries in Africa, from Australia & Indonesia. Having engineers close by, Erie could be the best place to build export locomotives that seem to have a lot of variations / track gauges / loading gauges between customers requiring unique content unlike the relatively standardized domestic offerings being built at Ft. Worth.

I know that wouldn’t help the current employees who will be directly affected at Erie with the job layoffs & I wish them the best especially with the holiday season upon us, but maybe future generation of workforce in Erie might require more up-front education before joining the workforce or be forced to move away from families to get jobs, that immigrants like me had to do.

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

Good read, Naveen !   Yes, training and education always enhance a person's portfolio. However, to build the locomotives, you also need welders, assemblers, cranemen, stock keepers, painters, test personel, and many more non salaried employees, who perform the rigorous daily chores associated with turning out world class locomotives.

One of the big concerns that factors into these corporate re-locations is education. Many years ago when GM wanted to build a new car (Saturn) the abilities of a state or general area to provide upscale/advanced education was extremely important. The Saturn Plant was located in Spring Hill Tennessee and today is gone. At the time IMO via local Pittsburgh Post Gazette press,  western Pa was considered, because of good infrastructure, available power sources, and lots of secondary education facilities.  The Saturn adventure was mid 1980's

 

Some where in the mix, the Grove City facility fits the high tech upgrade part of GE's power systems business.  Must be some pretty good people with decent abilities there, IMO. 

However, to build the locomotives, you also need welders, assemblers, cranemen, stock keepers, painters, test personel, and many more non salaried employees, who perform the rigorous daily chores associated with turning out world class locomotives  

My thought is this list of workers has a relatively high skill level, even the stock keeper would require computer skills.  IMO the world we live-in is way beyond manual labor with a shovel, broom, or sledge hammer.

Mike CT

   

 

And, to varying degrees, the cash and tax abatements that states/counties/localities offer to companies to relocate to their area. States bid against each other.

 

 

Mike, Spring Hill plant in Tennessee closed because GM went bankrupt at the time. GE settled out of court with the NLB for interference with union activities, and has hired new employees at second tier wages at the Grove City , Pa. plant. I'm not sure how much money GE actually saves by eliminating 1500 jobs at the Erie location. The employees with seniority make the great wages, and the lesser senior employees make the second tier wages, so in the end, what is gained? Yes, Matt.....states battle each other trying to bring in corporations. However, it has been shown that once the enticements expire, the companies sometimes end up leaving for greener pastures, thus the cycle continues 

Would assume Jack Welch, et al, would have already gone through GE Transportation for head count reductions. I moved to Cincinnati in 1985; at that time GE Aircraft in Evendale had 20,000 employees. When I left in 1989, they were down to 6000......apparently producing the same number of jet engines. Maybe there was still some residual excess head count in Erie? Might the downturn in the railroads' fortune re coal traffic have affected Erie, too?

       As an aside, was told by a GM Personnel Director that when Saturn was initiated, HQ requested a contribution of employees/engineers, etc, from each business. All divisions complied, sending their poorest performing employees!!

 It's all about making more money for the company and lack of respect for the employees who have made the company money.

 

 Just realignment of higher paying jobs in one area to lower paying in another.

 

 Business matrix 101 that's harmful to the economy .

 

GE gets multi-billion dollar deal building trains for India

 

http://money.cnn.com/2015/11/1...?iid=surge-stack-dom

 

 

Re GE receiving a multi billion dollar 1000 locomotive order from India...... This deal goes through.... ONLY.... if GE builds a locomotive plant in India. How much work Erie is involved with, remains to be seen. The planned layoffs of 1500 employees will begin in December......

If they build a plant in India then they will be shipped all over the world. Has happened in many industries.

I just recently retired from GE as a control system engineer. I was one of the lucky ones that was able to retire on my own terms. I saw many excellent engineers get the "lack of work"  from the mother ship due to jobs being sent overseas.  One friend was a M.I.T. engineer grad, it does not get much better than that so that old story that Americans don't have the smarts is just nonsense. It saddens me to see what GE has become, but I guess most corporations in America have changed over the years.

 

If GE is building a plant in India to build locomotives then I would think Erie's days are numbered. GE does not like unions, and even the plant in Texas could be in trouble down the road. Sad to hear that 1500 employees in Erie will be out of work... my prayers are with them. 

 

On another note, Boeing Air got a big order with the Chinese where part of the deal is the Chinese get Boeings plans and are going to build some planes in China. Hmph, they could never build planes in China and bring them back here...right? I guess as we used to say at the General " It's nothing personal, just business." Back to playing with my trains, sorry for the long post. 

Nice post. Thanks, I know what you mean. I was an industrial salesman for 40 years in western Pa. and have seen just about all. sad story what the politicians and "businessmen" have done to this country. Did you know Paul Berkibile ?? An EE.

When I worked in Mt Top PA, a division Of Morrison Knudsen, later, MK Rail, we re manufactured EMD SD 40's and 45's for half the cost of a new loco. 1.5 mil new, and 750 g's rebuilt. That was in the early nineties; not sure what the cost comparison would be today. Re-man work fizzled out, and a joint venture with CSX building 2 prototypes for the Iron Highway project that was shelved, led to the closing of that facility.

Don

 

I was in industrial equipment in northern NJ for 30 years. I, too .... have seen just about it all. Very sad.

 

(The job took me inside Conrail's Newark NJ Oak Island yard occasionally, and that gave me the toy train bug. )

 

I noticed a video where some engines were being pulled off line to go to auction. There were GE Dash series (8s or 9s?) in the consist. I thought to myself that they weren't going back to shops to get rebuilt?

 There are so many articles and posts of older EMDs being swapped and rebuilt. That must weigh into the picture when purchasing new engines? If GEs are cheaper, their total lifespan must be shorter if they aren't considered for rebuild programs?

 Does that help keep higher priced EMD engines on a level playing field? Probably a different picture for each RR?

 I'm just trying to understand the total picture and I'll keep reading all of the posts.

Interesting stuff here for me. Thanks.

I grew up in India, but living in US, since 2001. I had discussions with friends I left behind about US jobs moving there & a common explanation I got was that if the money Indians spend was good enough for multinational companies to sell their products there, then the people earning the money should be good enough to qualify for the jobs moving there. The multinational companies weren’t forced to sell the products there. But since GE or Boeing voluntarily chose to sell the products in India or China, then they should abide by the requirements specified in advance in the tender request that they transfer the technology or create local jobs. I know that this benefits the corporations more than it benefits workers in the US like us.

This is not a new trend however. The predominant gauge in India is the Broad Gauge, 5’6”. In the early 1960, Indian Railways got over 50 diesel-electric locomotives from GM-EMD & ALCo each. After trials, the EMD locomotives, based on the SD24, was superior to the ALCo models in many aspects but GM did not agree to the technology transfer & so ALCo got the order. For decades after ALCo stopped making diesel-electric locomotives in the US, those RSD29 based ALCo locomotives are still being built in India for domestic use (3,683 + & counting) & also exported to other countries in South East Asia that use the Indian Broad Gauge.

EMD after almost 40 years agreed to a technology transfer agreement in 2001 & the same Indian government owned locomotive company that has been making ALCos, has been making EMD locomotives since 2002 with EMD technology & significant local content.

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

When we went through Erie this past March on the way to the March Meet I saw a "Keep it Made in ERIE" sign by Local 506 with a quarry truck and an NS loco at the HD dealer... didn't have time to go to the Union Hall and try to get me one.  

 

Anyway, can't add to the conversation since the solutions to this issue are political and thus verboten on this train forum...  and not many in either party would agree with my solution anyway. 

I guess we, as individuals, have to decide our part in a global economy.  My oldest daughter is a world wide marketing manager for a company in Boston.  Historically, Balwin was associated with her company.  Most recently, she had mentioned that dealing with China and Russia had become more difficult. Part of the world we live-in. 

 

I thought about the conversation for a while and the next day E-mailed a brief account of what happened to Baldwin Locomotive works 100 yrs. ago.  Heavily into supplying locomotives to Russia, Baldwin had an inventory of "Russian decapods" that could not be shipped because of the Bolshevik Revolution.  US Government/USRA saved Baldwin at the time, distributing the Russian decapods to different railroads. A noted feature of the Russian decapods, was the large tires that adapted the locomotives to American rail gauge from I believe 5 ft.  IMO, An alteration Baldwin was glad to make.

 

You would hope GE's World wide adventure benefits all, including those in Erie, PA., USA 

 

  

There is something going on with GE as a corp. they sold off their huge financial unit and the appliance unit plus some other parts.  I guess they are "re-directing" or something but I wouldn't be surprised if the loco business isn't sold. To the Chinese ??  Could happen-anything today is possible.  I found the Japs and Koreans hard to deal with mainly because of different cultures, attitudes and  way of doing things.