Stripping, Detailing, & Repainting Project - GP38-2 (Updated 4/18/17)

Ditto what Dave said.  I used to use brake fluid, but found 91% alcohol works fine.  I made a "bathtub" using a piece of PVC pipe with a PVC cap cemented in one end and long enough so the entire model shell can fit down inside.  It might take 3-4 bottles of alcohol to fill the tub.  Just put the model in and leave it alone for 1-2 hours, then use an old toothbrush to start removing paint.  Once the old paint surface is broken it seems to start working faster.  Put it back in the tub for another 1-2 hours and repeat until all the paint is gone.

If you have an air compressor, Badger Model Flex paint can be sprayed straight from the bottle, just don't use paint that's been opened for more than a year.  I recently painted a Weaver Pullman-Bradley coach with Model Flex and it came out great (photos in the 3RS sub-forum).  It's got a satin/glossy finish and I put the decals (Champ) on it without having to spray a glosscoat first.  But if the paint is flat then you need to spray glosscoat before applying decals.  Once the decals are on, spray another coat of gloss and when dry spray a coat of flat.  Spraying the glosscoat on after the decals helps hide the edges of the decals.
Take your time on stripping, painting, and decaling and you should end up with a nice model.

I just stripped a Atlas MP15 with 91% alcohol. It seemed to work better in a warmer room for some reason. It removed everything off the plastic/abs shell. Even the decals came off after some time. I soaked it for a hour and then tested with old toothbrush, if the paint did not remove easy keep soaking and scrubbing lightly. It took 2 days to remove all the paint. The alcohol will not remove paint from metal surfaces I found out.

 This is my first attempt at this, so I am learning too

Great advice from these two modelers. Can't really add to their suggestions other than to offer to buy the items you won't be using. My email is in my profile. good luck! Tom

Oops....3 modelers, not 2. Toddstrick snuck in before I posted! Tom

I really cant add to the above concerning painting and stipping. As for the board and motors. When you remove them. Do it as one unit without cutting the wires to the motors. same as for the light harnesses, and the speaker.. This way you can sell as on unit. Make sure you mark the wires leading from the 3rail pick up and the common. also mark the wires leading to the speaker. In early QSI boards,  the wires to the speaker were connected directly to the board. Weaver engines made during that time period had a tendency to use brown wires for every thing. Some were wired directly to the board and some had wing nuts. In my parts bin I have both.

Doug

Hello from an alien, that is Norway

Speaking of removing paint with alcohol. Exactly what kind of alcohol? Is it isopropylalcohol? I'll guess it's not moonshine or pure etanol ... 

I have a lot of O scale engines waiting for some repainting into CSX and predesessor deliveries so good advices are welcome.

HELLO NORWAY!!!  (don't you have to type loud when talking to a foreigner?)

John, it's 91% Isopropyl, anything less than 91% doesn't seem to do.

Wear gloves or you'll be wishing you did (experience talking).

Oh...How do you guys do it in Norway with all the snow?  We just got maybe 6" here in southeastern Virginia and everything is at a standstill   I liked snow when I was a kid but not so much now

Norway greetings from earth.  Use the 91% Isopropyl to strip the engines and consume the moonshine !!!!

Doug from planet Florida.

Weaver sells a line of solvents in the Scalecoat II line.

Andrew

I used Zep Industrial Purple Degreaser & Cleaner that I researched on the internet with great results.  You can get it at Home Depot or Lowes. Other suggestions such as brake fluid or oven cleaner are highly corrosive and have to be used with care. Otherwise they start damaging the plastic as well not to mention the fumes. It took a day to work using Zep and requires you to submerge it completely (you may want to use a brick or something so the shell doesn't float, but with nice results and the factory paint came off easily.  Easy clean-up as well.

Ed Abbot

Dave,

Thank you.  As far as paint, I would want to go with whatever is best.  If I were to go your route (with acrylic), is the polly scale engine black acrylic?  With the decals, do I need all of those that you mentioned (glosscote, dullcote, microset, and microsol)?  If so, what are their purpose and order in which I’d use them?  If you do end up have a sheet of decals, would you mind shooting me an email (mjrodg3 at yahoo or mjrodg3 at gmail)?  

The reason I’d go with a dummy rather than a powered unit is that I’d like to have this run in a lashup with my four MTH proto2/proto3 locos.

Bob,

That is a great idea with the PVC, I may just have to try that.  I do in fact have an air compressor, wouldn’t I need a spray gun though?  Also, thanks for the "wear gloves" tip.

Todd,

Thanks for sharing, sounds like we will be learning at the same time then!

Tom,

I will shoot you an email here shortly.

Norway John, good luck with your engines!   

Ed,

Thanks for you tips.  Is that what you did with the CSX?

How about an alternative method with less work???

If this was my project this is how I'd do it........\I'd not strip the entire paint job. It looks like it is in great condition and much like a real automotive body shop....if it's stable paint over it.

It does need some prep. With a very fine grit sanding stick I'd sand over the lettering and any numbers and data. A light sanding overall. I then wash the body and allow to dry.

I then apply a primer sealer. My favorite is automotive brand Dupli-color gray primer sealer. (sold in big box and auto stores) Two very light coats and you should have a nice even gray surface and if applied right smooth and ready for paint. It needs a few days maybe a week to dry. (I place mine in a dehydrator to spped this process)

For the easiest color coat I use Tamiya brand spray cans. (hobby shop) It is a super thin lacquer with great coverage. Two to three coats and she should be ready to decal. Now if you have extra detail parts they need to be applied before primer.....then just as above. After decals you can apply a dull coat from Tamiya or Testors if you want a flat finish......or gloss if you want 'shop new' paint. 

I know my way is very different than most. But I'd put mine up against many of the works of other (they do great work too) and it is and easy process that yields results that are hard to tell from a complete strip and paint. Thanks!

My way......

This MTH caboose was a McDonalds set version. It was yellow and red with a big french fries package and McD logo. It was all lightly sanded and primed over.

Great thread as I have a stable of caboose I plan to strip and paint in all the different railroads that my wife's family worked (great way to get wife involved btw). Decals will be my problem. I will have to re-create the art as these stretch back to the 1860s.

I have both an airbrush and a little gravity feed gun I got at one of the big box stores for maybe $40. Love the latter as it's super easy to clean and doesn't clog. Spray pattern/volume is nicely adjustable.

I've had good luck with rattle cans too - there's an auto parts store around the corner that handles auto paint and will put whatever you want in a can. Most of my painting experience though has been RC boats. It's a little harder for me to get an even coat with the cans.

Which brings me to my question - what do people use for masking tape? I've tried regular tape, electrical tape, frisket film for airbrushing, etc. Never really got perfect results - always bleed under the tape.

For masking tape I have two on my desk. Tamiya, again, makes a masking tape that is fantastic.  It's not cheap but see my photos above.....all with Tamiya tape. I burnish the paint edge with a fingernail or a wooden coffee stir. The Tamiya is used on the edge only. I then fill in with Shurtape CP150 brand light tack one inch tape. That and plastic food bags cover big areas.

I have an airbrush, 3 in fact, and I use them at times........but all above are spray cans.

Thanks - I'll check the LHS for the Tamiya masking tape.

I'm with you on the spray cans, especially in the winter. I just dont have the facilities to tackle the cleanup of spray guns indoors.

Question about old water slide decals...  I see a lot of old decals go up for sale on eBay for pretty cheap. Anyone know if they're any good if they're 40 years old?

All the Champ decals I've been using are old.  I've read you can spray an overcoat of clear gloss on them to keep them intact, but haven't tried it yet.  I did have one number come apart while I was doing my Weaver Pullman-Bradley car but there were extras on the sheet.

Anybody tried use dry transfer decals? Any issue? pro and con?

Here's an MTH Premier ES44 that was originally a Norfolk Western heritage unit- I used 800 grit wet-sandpaper and lightly sanded away the lettering. The blue paint worked well as a primer in my opinion. Then i used Scalecoat II black, with Model Masters pure white for the upper area by the numberboards. Decals were custom made by Microscale. I actually painted 3 for a 3-unit multi-unit consist. My favorite engines in my fleet-

25+ years ago when I was doing a lot of product development and graphic design work we used a lot of what we called rub downs which I'm guessing are dry transfers. We'd send out to have these made - you could specify any "pantone" color, including metallics. It was a photographic process where we'd provide repro art and get back sheets you would burnish onto whatever it was you wanted to apply type or graphics to. 

These could be up to a couple hundred dollars a sheet back in the 80s. It all depended on the # of colors.

Very fragile, we'd always order a backup sheet or multiples of the thing on a sheet. Very fine detail would be lost/cracked quite easily.

Often the act of burnishing these down would affect whatever it was you were applying them to so you had to be very careful.

Later on there were products that were ink jet produced and not as nice as the ones that were produced photographically. Never as opaque.

I still have some of the flat pieces we used these rub downs on and 25 years later they look fine.

OK, i'll chime in here with my two cents worth. To strip or not to strip? On 95% of what i paint i do not strip it beforehand. Why? Because the factory paint is usually sound and stable.

i do, however remove all lettering and numbers as suggested above. i use 1200, 2400, or 3000 grit wet/dry sandpaper (available at NAPA or other auto parts stores) and sometimes 3M green scrubbers. Start with the finest and work to a more coarse grit as needed so not to damage the underlying paint any more than necessary.

Primer - yes, but don't use automotive or household primers found in rattle cans. Assuming your not using an airbrush please use a hobby primer in a rattle can (Testors - about $7 or Tamiya - about $10). The reason for this the pigments are more finely ground and the solvents and drying agents are formulated to the pigments and have less chance of damaging model work; this does a better job of preserving detail.

For painting (assuming you're not using an airbrush) the brand is a matter of personal choice. For big jobs i use Scalecoat II (acrylic) in rattle cans. For small (one engine or car) i use thinned Scalecoat II in a Preval sprayer (available at ACE, TruValue, NAPA, etc.). Works great without the expense of an airbrush, compressor, etc. - means more money for trains!!

Masking -- Tamiya brand without question. Sometimes it's helpful (after applying and burnishing the tape) to seal the edge with a light coating of Dullcote to further prevent bleed through.

Decaling is another whole thing, but, i will offer one tip. i lightly spray all my decals with Dullcote before using them. As we never know how fresh (or thin) they are; this helps prevent them from disintegrating in the water or when applying. i have some Champ decals that are over 30 years old and have had no disintegration issues using this technique.

jackson

I ask many more questions here on OGR than have answers.......but this is one area I can answer.

I have been a decal manufacture and artist for a LONG time. I currently do the art for a number of plastic model companies and make most of my own decals seen above.

Old decals. Can they be used?? Kinda like 'how much to build a house?' No one answer. I boils down to how they were handled and store for their life. I have some from the 1960's I've used. But mine are stored in the dark, in dry room temps....in sealed bags.

If you choose to try and use a old set, try a spare decal from the sheet or one you can live without. Cut out and dip in warm water. If it works....chances are the whole sheet will.....but it's not a guarantee.....so if it's really old and has any curl to it.....I'd spray it with some clear coat. I like Testors clear but it can be thick so LIGHT coat. 

So yes....they can......but not all are even salvageable. The type and brand of paper, storage etc all vary. Glue dries out, some become fused to the paper. You can only try and see. 

I agree that most auto and home primers are NOT good for models. They are made to fill in and thus not good for details.

Dupli-color sealer primer is not like this. It is a sealer not a filler. I have some expensive primers including Tamiya. Side by side I still go with the Dupli-color sealer. I pay $3 for 12 oz Dupli-color.....it could be $15 a can and I'd still pick it over Tamiya (which is near $15 for the small can now)  There is no ONE perfect method. I think it's best people find what works for them......that is the best method for them.

All the above have two coats of Dupli-color sealer on them. Detail is still not obscured....

Dave,

So true -- "There is no ONE perfect method. I think it's best people find what works for them......that is the best method for them."

jackson

Another parts/alcohol holder...use the container that Clorox Disinfecting Wipes come in for smaller items.

This topic prompted me to get off my butt and strip the paint off a MTH caboose.  It just fit inside the Clorox container and covered with alcohol.

I put it in at noon and put the toothbrush to it at 1:30.  The black paint on the roof came off in a sheet and 90% of the dark red and lettering came off as well.  I've got it back in soaking and in another hour I'll hit it again.

AMCDave,

Thanks for sharing your method, you have done some really nice work.  I really like the Santa Fe Cat Whiskers!

Your NS engine looks great!!  I never even gave the white a thought, thanks for pointing me in that direction.  Did you apply gloss over the Scalecoat II?

Bob Delbridge,

Glad the topic got you motivated!

Now another question, how do you get the decals to go into the tiny grooves of the doors, latches, ect.?

Mike,

Benefit of not stripping: saves time as long as the paint is good (no chips, runs, etc.). Yes, i would sand off the stripe.

Inasmuch as this is your first project of this sort, i'd use Scalecoat II in a rattle can, practicing a little bit beforehand on a scrap of plastic to get a feel for the spray pattern, ideal distance to put on a light coat. You don't thin the stuff in a rattle can; if you go the Preval route, you will need to use Scalecoat II thinner (i generally use inaccurately measured 10%-20% thinner).

After it thoroughly dries i'd use some rattle can Testor's Glosscote in the areas i'm going to be putting decals.

Sealing the masking tape: For example -- if you were to paint an area - say a white stripe. OK paint it on the primer, now your planning on a dark color next to it. Mask the stripe, burnish the tape, and then spray a light coat of Dullcote on the edge of the tape to further seal it preventing any of the dark color seeping (bleeding) under the tape onto the white. This is just an example.

Decaling: follow the instructions on the bottles of MicroSol and MicroSet applying decals to the areas you have lightly sprayed with Glosscote. After all is done spray the whole model with Dullcote.

Advice -- Take your time!!

jackson

Jackson,

Thank you for all of the advice!

A lot of helpful information in this thread so far, thank you.

I looked at the decals I have last night and I found that I'm in need of more numbers (for the cab and number boards), so if somebody knows where I can find them for NS, that'd be helpful.

When I only have dry transfers....and they must be applied in a difficult area....I apply the dry transfer to clear decal paper and then go forword like any other decal. Works well for me!!!

You have a couple options for wet decals:

http://www.shellscale.com/NS%20Diesels.htm

Microscale sells 87-6, but are out of stock.  You may see them pop up on ebay.  

Note:  These are the the pre-Horsehead scheme.  I'm not aware of the Horsehead decals in O Scale.

-Ed

The NS Horsehead decals were a custom run done by Microscale and appear on eBay from time to time. I have contact info for the seller if you'd like some. They are awesome decals as seen in my pic above of the ES44.

Also all the warning label decals are available from Highball Graphics and worth the price- they make it all come together.

Get yourself an airbrush and compressor if you want the best finish you can put on a model.

I have a Badger Crescendo 175 and a Master Airbrush TC-20 compressor I got from here, <$200 + shipping:

http://www.tcpglobal.com/ABD-K...-7.html#.VPCI0Y7W3x0

Everybody had their own models they use, I can't afford to test every airbrush/compressor out there.  The setup I have has done very well for me, best $200 I've spent.

Ed, 

Fortunately I have a set of Horsehead decals, but not very many numbers on the sheet.  I found the microscale set, but like you said, out of stock - dang.

 Great idea, and I have the 20% off coupon.  Can it be used with acrylics?

Bob,

$200 is way over the limit I want to spend doing this.  However... I do already have a 20Gal 150HP air compressor which I think I can turn down to whatever air pressure I'd need?

Yes, Jim has them on there right now in fact- also, those are the correct labels from Highball.

Mike,

If this is your first attempt at re-painting a train i would advise against an airbrush no matter how inexpensive. Why? There is a learning curve involved, plus the airbrush is only part of the cost; even if you have a compressor you will still need a water separator and the appropriate fittings/hoses to attache your airbrush.

Inasmuch as you're not really planning any more painting in the near future (if ever), and the fact that the paint scheme is very simple (all black with white decals), i'd strongly recommend a rattle can of Scalecoat II, practice on a piece of primed plastic, moving the can in a smooth rhythm, at a distance until you can lay down a nice thin coat. Once you get the hang of it, paint your engine.

If a rattle can doesn't appeal to you try buying a Preval sprayer for less than $10, a small jar of Scalecoat II, a can of Scalecoat II thinner, practice a bit and go at it that way. Total for everything less than $25 not counting primer.

However the least expensive approach would be one can of Testor's light gray primer and a rattle can of Scalecoat II paint - less than $20.

Remember whatever approach you use, there will be a learning curve involved, so why not go with the least expensive instead of jumping in when you don't need to yet - unless you're made of money .  Some folks here seem to think nothing of throwing money at their hobby; i like solving problems as inexpensively as possible, and my RR will stand up quite well compared to most and has been featured by my local NMRA Division (a predominately N & HO group of which i'm not even a member) 3 times on their layout tours. As one of my Scottish friends always says, "Money is a lot easier to save than it is to earn".

jackson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJmTzIFKvys

jackson

 
Another thing here, how do you guys remove the windows?  These seem to be glued in and I've tried to gently seperate them from the shell, but it looks like they may be starting to crack a little.

Here's a photo of the SAL Pullman Bradley car I recently painted/lettered:

After I applied the Champ decals and used Solv-A-Set to soften/bond the decals to the model, (the Model Flex paint is glossy) I sprayed a coat of gloss over the model, once that dried I sprayed a coat of dull.

I cannot see any edges on the decals.  I read on another topic the key is spraying a gloss coat on before the finishing dull coat.  Not sure if this is SOP but it worked great on this model.

 
Bob,

The Pullman car looks really good!