Hand Laid vs. Commercially Available Track

I don't have the experience or knowledge of pricing to give you a definitive answer on some of these, but I have built some turnouts using rail stripped from Atlas flex track (the current stuff, not the old Roco track), and I had good luck getting decent turnouts with my decidedly moderate skills.

I built a 2-R version of an O-72 turnout (36" radius, curved through the frog), and buoyed by my success I then made a #4 turnout that went even quicker and worked just as well. 

I personally wouldn't hand lay track (flex track is good enough for me), but I definitely would build my own turnouts instead of buying commercial ones, especially if I needed non-standard sizes. 

Jeff C

Several thoughts here. Hand laying track is easy using code125 or 148 rail. 148 looks like today's mainline. Handlaying switches can be something else. I don't have the patience to do it. You can get pre-made switches that need ties in various numbers eg., 4,6,8. you can get code 148 switches from Atlas ready to go in 5 1/2 and 7 1/2 that are good switches. it is less expensive to hand lay but takes more time. Atlas flex track is about 40" long and looks good especially if you paint the rail as I did. Sectional track is also available. 

Dick

Code 148 would equal PRR main Line which was 132 lb. rail (as best I recall). My plan is to stagger the rail joints a bit using Micro Engineering for tangents and Atlas for curves. That will be enough challenge for me.

I can't make the call for you, but I'd say get a small amount of supplies and give hand laying a try. Make up your own mind.

You can probably get switches built to the finish level you prefer.

Nice engines! Is that an FP7?

Simon

For me the biggest problem in hand laying is driving spikes.  There has to be a better tool than needle nose pliers.

I glue the ties, then carefully belt sand to get them level.  I do not always succeed, which is one reason I won’t soon be going Proto-48.

Jonathan,  I recently finished laying track on my 12x30 layout with code 148 rail.  It didn't cross my mind to lay my own track, I used Micro-Engineering flex track and Atlas curved sections to ensure the corners were true.

I built six #6 switches and one curved switch with a 40.5" radius on the diverging track.  It took me literally days to build each one.  I needed 20+ switches and bought the rest from Brad Strong at Signature Switch.  His switches are superb!!!  I used the Signature switches on the mainline and other key areas and used my homebuilt ones on spurs where the speed is reduced.  I'm glad I at least tried to build them, but his switches are so smooth and flawless that the money spent was well worth not having to worry if they'll work or not.

The cost of building vs buying a switch is about 1/3 to 1/4 the price.  Like BOB2 said, the spikes can give you fits, I even bought a tool from MicroMark and still had problems.

If you only need a few switches I recommend Signature Switch.  If you need a boat load I recommend trying to learn how to lay your own.  Right-O-Way and Fast Tracks (HandLaidTrack) sell all the parts required.

Brad recently went up on the cost of his switches.  I ordered mine piecemeal, I don't know if he gives discounts of ordering a large quantity.  They're still cheaper (I think) than Atlas switches.  I had him make mine in code 148 2-rail, but let him know that I was using 3-rail wheels on my BPRC engines and all my rolling stock is still 3-rail.  Not sure if he did anything special (doesn't look to be any different) but I have zero problems running the hi-rail wheels on code 148 rail.  Just be prepared to wait, he's very busy!!!

Most layouts I have seen handlaid (not proto-48) have not used tie plates.    I imagine that is even more time consuming.   

I handlaid all the track on a previously layout about 500 linear feet.     I think by the time I got the hang of it, a few hours, I could lay about 9 feet of track per hour using the 3 ft sections of rail.     I spiked about every 4-6 ties.    4 on curves, 6 in straights.     I used switches from Earl Eshelman(no longer available, but similar to what ROW offers I think), which came with all the rail made and soldered on straps.   You would spike the switch down, and then remove the straps.     I think it generally took me a couple of hours to install a switch and put in a manual or automatic throw mechanism.    I put in about 50 switches I think.    

There is an outfit that offers templates for building switches just using plain rail.    ROW I believe sells just points and frogs which are the hard parts.  

When I did it I calculated the cost and figured it was about 1/3 the cost to lay my own track vs commercial,  and at the time that was a big deal for me.   Also at the time, the selection was pretty poor.

It is not hard at all to lay curves.    The rail bends very easily to O scale radii.     It is good to make some stiff cardboard templates for the curves matching the rail curvature to get smooth curves.     If you lay one rail to the curve you want, and then gauge the other to it, it works fine.

You need a 3 point gauge to make life easier.    spiking rail while holding an NMRA guage is very difficult.    You don't have to hold a 3-point gauge, you can set in on the rail holding it in gauge, and have both hands free to work.     I had 2 3-point gauges and could than set them 6 inches apart and drive a couple spikes before removing them.    Not sure who makes them now.  

Jonathan:   I know this is three rail, and an easy to use, cost effective track.   My friend Tom, ask me to help with his layout.   All material was used, Tom had acquired most of it, on the secondary markets at a fraction of new cost.  He had a track plan, we built his layout modular so that the pieces could be easily moved.    A slideshow of the build.   I helped with most of the track work, and wiring.  Tom did most of the detailed finish work.  Off and on construction, most was done 6 months or less. 

Below is a link to the first video in a multi-part YouTube series (I think something like 11 or 12 videos in all) on hand laying an O Scale turnout using castings and components from Right-O-Way.  

https://youtu.be/MYJl-a0TWqA

There is a line of O Scale fixtures from Fast Tracks if you plan on forming your own points and frogs from pieces of plain rail.

https://www.handlaidtrack.com/fixtures-o

You can also download and print paper templates from the NMRA web site for standard O scale turnouts.

For pre-made turnouts, you can use either of these companies: 

http://www.signatureswitchco.com/

http://www.oscaleturnouts.com/

https://shop.atlasrr.com/c-1018-o-2rl-track.aspx  (only available in code 148)

As far as pricing, you can use the web sites above to get the latest prices.  Also note when hand laying track, you need to know what you are after as far as the level of detail because that will significantly impact the pricing of your overall turnout cost.  For example, a hand laid turnout with all the bells and whistles (pun intended ) details added can cost as much as an Atlas boxed turnout just for the turnout parts alone and then you still have to do all the assembly following the You Tube video link above but you will end up with a super realistic looking turnout when you are done.  So again, have an idea of what you are after when you start pricing things out.  Also note that these turnouts are quite large so the shipping cost of the pre-fabricated turnouts can really add up quick so you might get some savings on shipping costs by ordering multiples.  For just tangent track, I see very little price difference between hand laid and flex track, but of course, the hand laid track can end up looking better in the end from a realism perspective.  Even with 2-Rail O Scale, there are still lots of options out there, you just need to come up with the one that is right for you.

Scott Kay

Austin, TX

GG1 4877 posted:

• Initial material cost:  Is the initial cost for raw materials in rail, ties and spikes less expense than what is available pre-packaged?

Yes.  The cost in materials is less overall.

• What is the relative skill level required to bend rail and lay track by hand?  I have a standards gauge so that isn't an issue.

Generally, if you can walk & talk, and chew gum at the same time, use that standards gauge (get a 2nd one - useful to have 2), count to 20 w/o having to remove your shoes and socks, then you probably possess the skills needed.  What is needed more is patience.  I have found that good music that you like while spiking adds to achieving a Zen like condition wherein you can actually get a lot done rather quickly. 

• Once one becomes somewhat proficient, what kind of time investment is involved?  I still have close to 20 years until retirement if I'm so lucky and a nearly 9 year old so time is an issue.

My children were around that same age, and I had ~20 years until retirement. I'm not sure what either variable has to do with this though.  Your 9 year old can be helpful and involved with this effort.  Just how fast do you want to get to the endpoint?  I've found that rushing to completion usually results in tearing things out, re-planning, re-hashing, pre-mature male baldness, lumbago, and increased neuroses, all combined with low testosterone.  Exercising that patience tends to reward the exerciser.

• How hard it is to build turnouts?  I've seen the HO gauge metal templates. Are there comparable O scale ones?

1st one is hard, 2nd one is 50% easier, the 3rd one is 50% easier than the 2nd one, and after that you wonder why you ever thought this was hard at all.

Here's where handlaying has a huge advantage over commercial - you can lay them in place to go to wherever you want them to go in you plans and and have zero constraints imposed by commercial turnouts.

• In your experience how happy are you with your decision either way?

All of mine is hand laid, turnouts in place, even made ties so they'd look better than the uniformed polished commercial products.   Happy, yes!  Do it again that way, yes! 

Simon Winter posted:

Nice engines! Is that an FP7?

Simon

 

 

Simon,

Yes.  One of my 3 Sunset FP7s.  The other two are DGLE.  While not likely used on the NY&LB, I think it will look good pulling 3 or 4 P70's for the size layout I'll likely be able to build.  Right how it sits in my "2R" closet along with more locomotives and cars I care to count for my dream layout.  Next house .....

Thank you all.  This is exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping for.  The diversity of responses is quite helpful in helping me make a decision on which way to go.  Since I won't have a space for a layout in the next few years or so, time may not be an issue. 

I plan on building modular sections and finishing them one at a time this time around.  Dioramas to start and as they grow I can start running trains. 

Every day you look at that third rail.   After 12 years, layout maybe 50% it really doesn't look that bad.  Best wishes with your project Johathan.  12 years only yesterday, I was young, 57, today healthy, wow that 12 years was only yesterday.  Still a lot to do before check out time.  

I started handlaying everything in the 70s (2rail).  I moved to flex track for ease, at first in the background.  I realized that in pictures, the flex looked better than handlayed given that it has tie plates.  So I haven't made any efforts to handlay straight or curved track for a long time.  However, handlaying turnouts is far less expensive and the ability to build any size turnout is really great.   One thing about ties.  Sugar pine and basswood is the best.  It is soft enough to easily take spikes.   My experience , white pine from the lumber yard is a little tough for spikes.   If you have trouble driving spikes with needle nose, it is probabaly what the ties are made of.   I met somepne that ripped down paint stirring sticks from Home Depot for ties.  They were uniform and matehed Atlas tie thickness (2 rail) but spiking was tuff. 

The cheapest way to get rail stock is usually to buy flex track and pull the rails.  Used flex track is out there in great quantities both to relay as track and strip out rail.  one thing about handlay is that layed down in the conventioanl way, you cannot salavge it unless you are pulling up road bed and all.  I tore down my 29years old layout 2 years ago and saved most of the ballast flex.  Just saturated it with water and pryed gentally.  But it is still a job relaying used flex.  If you do handlay turnouts, you can solder to PC ties and that will make it salvagable.

There are many articles on laying turnouts.  

Jonathan,

Stumbled across this late last evening: In Gene Clements column in issue 95 of OST, he writes: Hand-laying is time consuming; if you can completely lay twelve inches of track in one hour then you must be using an unknown brand of spike machine or you're "Speedy=Gonzales".

That said, he still prefers the look of hand laid track.

Simon

GG1 4877 posted:

Thank you all.  This is exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping for.  The diversity of responses is quite helpful in helping me make a decision on which way to go.  Since I won't have a space for a layout in the next few years or so, time may not be an issue. 

I plan on building modular sections and finishing them one at a time this time around.  Dioramas to start and as they grow I can start running trains. 

If we all get lucky I'll hit the lottery and come out with an accurate line of O and P:48 track which will include turnouts and crossovers in everything from code 100 to code 148.     

There are few choices in track.   Either the popular Atlas or the Micro Engineering which is excellent but can be a bit too rigid to flex for some folks.

I personally can't stand Atlas track.   The flex track is just OK.  What I have from many years ago has tie plates screwed into the ties with lag bolts which ain't close to accurate for 90 percent of US track material.  The Atlas turnouts are either Lenz or PECO european prototype and only vaguely resemble American track in appearance or geometry. 

Your mileage may vary, but ready to run/ready to lay track is the weakest link in this scale.

Hi GG--

On the cheap? You can salvage used HO code .100 rail to re-lay for next to nothing

I hand laid track. It was short lived. It induced back pain. NOT WORTH IT for me.

Since you have NO running layout---ASK YOURSELF----How long do you wish to be tied up with track laying with your limited time?  Wouldn't you prefer to spend the long hours on other aspect of the hobby? PLUS---you will have to learn this skill via trial and error.

Once you commit yourself to handlaid----you have a long hard road ahead of you. I never found satisfaction in it. Gimme flex track, and I will make it look realistic w/o all the hardware, spikes, plates, etc. using paint and weathering.

I never did a great job of keeping the rails "in gauge" compared to flex track.

Now---are YOU supposed to give ME  2 cents.of do I give it to YOU? -Salty Rails-

Three things I don't like about hand laying track are. My opinion only.

1. It is time consuming . and when building a large layout by yourself time is precious so many other things to cover.

2. If your like me and every couple of years you like to alter things or even rebuild a lot of the layout because of a different theme, destroying your beautiful hand layed track is heart breaking I went through that phase once with ON3 track, never again, I now use flex track and factory turnouts for everything.

3. Double slips, three way turnouts, complicated track work which I have and like, takes real skill to hand lay in my book, you need to be really devoted with plenty of patience.

Roo.

This video is from my YouTube Channel and it goes over the basics of hand laid track.

“Detroit Model Railroad Club • How to Layout Ties for Hand Laid Track:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SU78pCmnqTU

Play time: about six minutes.

Gary: Hope this helps

I have compromised.  I use flex track for straight and curves and have built over 30 switches with ROW components.  Recently, I have gone to Brad Strong switches but might lay a few of my own again.  Once I paint the track with Rustoleum Camo Earth Brown, everything blends together nicely.

I make my own flex track from the Atlas tie strip of 40 years ago and ROW steel rail.  The European spikes and tie plates shrink from the solvent in the spray paint and lose their European look.

To each his own.  As long as you are happy with your decision...

Best of luck.

Ed

Also, Brad will make just about any switch you want.

In my previous post I mentioned I had all my track down.  I've been running trains to make sure all is well and one of my homemade (actually the first one I made) started causing derailments.  I ended up tearing it out and rebuilding it this afternoon, just finished for the night, have to solder the throw bar in place then insert it back inline and test it again.  I should have bought 2 more switches from Brad as this one and the adjacent one (also homemade) are in a vital place (yard) that will see a lot of action.  This rebuild and the curved switch were the last 2 I did and I was able to use his as a guide.

I like hand-spiked track. I couldn't have produced this siding with flexitrack.

BUT.... my layout is relatively small, by both American & O Scale standards (17' x 8'), the trackplan is simple (just 5 switches total) and most importantly I spent a long time planning it beforehand so that I knew it would work & keep me happy operationally, & also laid the track in stages so that I could run trains from fairly early on. This siding was the last bit to be laid. This is my 'lifetime' layout, & although the tracklaying did take a couple of years (of rather sporadic work!) that isn't much for a layout that I hope will have a lifetime of over 20 years.

Oh and that siding does work - https://youtu.be/DwSLBjfbd2A

I subscribe to the combo method.  I have both hand laid and Atlas flex, almost at random.

Embarrassingly, the Atlas is quieter.  I like quiet.

If you think Track laying is a chore have a close look at this it's O scale built by one bloke, I've lost the rest of my photos of when it was finished.

It's all finished now and being used I have been to this layout a few times in England he also builds a lot of steam Locos in O and has a full time job as well ! 

Roo posted:

 

It's all finished now and being used I have been to this layout a few times in England he also builds a lot of steam Locos in O and has a full time job as well ! 

I bet he's single, though!!

Wow that siding looks like the rail in my hometown that is still used.

Larry

And that track is all 2-rail and DC so imagine the number of gaps and feeders I know that nearly 85 industrial grade relays were used so the wiring was really something! Roo.

Roo posted:

And that track is all 2-rail and DC so imagine the number of gaps and feeders I know that nearly 85 industrial grade relays were used so the wiring was really something! Roo.

Actually, that was the first thing I thought of. Gave me a headache, LOL! My next thought is, does the complexity of this track work and all the wiring justify the ends, meaning was there an easier way to accomplish the same thing? It would be interesting to see the whole track plan!

Looks like an endorsement for RCBP!

Simon

All interesting thoughts still.  Time is not a consideration for me at this time since I have so little of it to actually build anything let alone get trains running in 2 rail.  I have several sections of Roco era Atlas track and some turnouts actually marked Roco from likely the same period I picked up at auction.  All code 148 track.  It seems maybe the combo method makes some sense.  Get some mainline up and running and try my hand at some hand laid branch lines and sidings to see if I enjoy it or not. 

Back to the proverbial drawing table!

SundayShunter posted:

I like hand-spiked track. I couldn't have produced this siding with flexitrack.

BUT.... my layout is relatively small, by both American & O Scale standards (17' x 8'), the trackplan is simple (just 5 switches total) and most importantly I spent a long time planning it beforehand so that I knew it would work & keep me happy operationally, & also laid the track in stages so that I could run trains from fairly early on. This siding was the last bit to be laid. This is my 'lifetime' layout, & although the tracklaying did take a couple of years (of rather sporadic work!) that isn't much for a layout that I hope will have a lifetime of over 20 years.

Oh and that siding does work - https://youtu.be/DwSLBjfbd2A

 

I LOVE this!  Penn Central mainline at it's finest.    In all seriousness, this is a great look and exactly what I'd likely do for the portion of my planned layout that includes part of the old CNJ Seashore Branch.

Jonathan,

Back in the day, meaning 30+ years ago, some very nice RR's were built with Atlas track and the #6 switches from Austria.  A little Rustoleum Camo Dark Earth Brown and ballast and it will look super.

Have fun.

Ed

Simon.

I am trying to find my photos of the finished track work. There is limited space for the station and goods/freight yard hence the complicated track work.

I am building a staging area (sceniced) on my layout at the moment amongst the track is two double slips again because of space limitations, but nothing like the above!!

And now two vintage photos of what I once called "South Brooklyn". This area served us well for many years the top photo of how it was the lower photo shows all the infrastructure gone and the train you see is the last train out before abandonment. Its all English Peco track I cheated, it's sad looking at those photos.  

Roo,

Very well done!

Ed

Thanks Ed.

Regards Roo.

Roo (Nev),

Your work is always inspiring and first rate. Smooth curves and dead on perfect tangents (straights). Always a nice percentage of scenery to track.

Incentive to hurry back from those walkabouts!

Simon

Roo, you are a magician.

Dick

GG1 4877 posted:

I have several sections of Roco era Atlas track and some turnouts actually marked Roco from likely the same period I picked up at auction.  All code 148 track.  It seems maybe the combo method makes some sense.

I think that you will be happy going that route. I am about to trade a few 3-rail Williams and MTH scale GG1s to friend for his pile of Atlas and Roco 2-rail track. I have always liked that combination and will be happy to get the trade done. 

Jonathan,  your You Tube  is great.  Please tell us whose trucks and wheel sets?

Thanks everyone.

Another bit of history. This time using English Peco track and English Marcway turnouts. I can buy Peco track and turnouts in Australia so I use them.

This is what the layout looked like straight after "South Brooklyn" was demolished (bottom photo). This was a completely new Baseboard and notice some "downtown" scenery on the right. It's a very early photo as there is a bus station top right being built the railroad track runs past it. It was sad to demolish the scenery I really liked it now there is a rolling mill (top photo) there is that progress? The top photo I just snapped today after the blokes had gone we run trains every Friday all day and we really enjoy ourselves. The program works so that the trains finish in the same position from where they started after several hours of running so we don't have to stage the layout for next week or should I say I don't have to!

Use the three parallel yard tracks to compare the two photos. If you look across to the upper left (bottom photo) you will see waybill pockets and cards we haven't used those for a long time, time flies when your building a Railroad! If I had a tennis court room I would have kept all those wonderful (to me) scenes in one big layout but I don't so things have to go. The weekend coming up rain and cold weather I am going to build another crane for the Rolling Mill in the warm house! 

Time for tea. Take care. Roo.

Looks great! About the perfect mix of railroad vs scenery!