help with wiring for MTH operating crossing gates 30-11012

with power applied, touch BLUE-to-YELLOW.  you should hear motor whirring, lightings start flashing, gate arms swings down.  arm motion will automatically stop by itself when reaching bottom - takes 2 or 3 seconds for the arm to go down.  if you disconnect BLUE-to-YELLOW during motion, it will stop moving.

with power applied, touch BLUE-to-WHITE.  you should hear motor whirring, lights are already flashing, gate arm swings up.  arm motion will automatically stop when reaching top - also takes 2 or 3 seconds.  lights stops flashing when arm reaches top.  if you disconnect BLUE-to-YELLOW during motion, it will stop moving.

so, with that background:

A so-called SPDT toggle switch (3 terminals) connected as shown will do the trick.  One position is down, other position is up.  As mentioned earlier the arm motion automatically shuts off when reaching end of travel so it's OK to use a toggle switch.

But, you mentioned pushbutton switch.  You'd need two momentary type (2 terminals each, spring-loaded to turn off when released).  Push one button for down, push other button for up.  To complete the arm motion in either direction you'd have to hold the button until the arm reaches the end of travel.

Irrespective of which configuration, the current flowing in the switch is very small (much less than 1 Amp) so essentially any switch you can find will work.

As shown you don't need to hook up the BLUE wire on the 2nd gate if operating them in tandem.  

anyone?

stan2004 posted:

with power applied, touch BLUE-to-YELLOW.  you should hear motor whirring, lightings start flashing, gate arms swings down.  arm motion will automatically stop by itself when reaching bottom - takes 2 or 3 seconds for the arm to go down.  if you disconnect BLUE-to-YELLOW during motion, it will stop moving.

with power applied, touch BLUE-to-WHITE.  you should hear motor whirring, lights are already flashing, gate arm swings up.  arm motion will automatically stop when reaching top - also takes 2 or 3 seconds.  lights stops flashing when arm reaches top.  if you disconnect BLUE-to-YELLOW during motion, it will stop moving.

so, with that background:

A so-called SPDT toggle switch (3 terminals) connected as shown will do the trick.  One position is down, other position is up.  As mentioned earlier the arm motion automatically shuts off when reaching end of travel so it's OK to use a toggle switch.

But, you mentioned pushbutton switch.  You'd need two momentary type (2 terminals each, spring-loaded to turn off when released).  Push one button for down, push other button for up.  To complete the arm motion in either direction you'd have to hold the button until the arm reaches the end of travel.

Irrespective of which configuration, the current flowing in the switch is very small (much less than 1 Amp) so essentially any switch you can find will work.

As shown you don't need to hook up the BLUE wire on the 2nd gate if operating them in tandem.  

thank you very much!  I did not see your post until after I refreshed the browser.  I will give it a try with the switch devices I have and see how I can get it going.

So blue wire is the control "hot" wire that drives the motor direction.  Since  AC is used for gates, use the positive sine wave to drive motor one way, and negative sine wave the opposite.  Any body dissected one to ascertain my guess?

rrman posted:

So blue wire is the control "hot" wire that drives the motor direction.  Since  AC is used for gates, use the positive sine wave to drive motor one way, and negative sine wave the opposite.  Any body dissected one to ascertain my guess?

In this thread I posted a schematic and related info on how it operates.  Rather than using positive and negative halves of AC to power the motor, it uses a H-bridge to reverse motor direction from a 5V DC bus.  The mechanism can even be powered by DC voltage.

stan2004 posted:

rrman posted:

So blue wire is the control "hot" wire that drives the motor direction.  Since  AC is used for gates, use the positive sine wave to drive motor one way, and negative sine wave the opposite.  Any body dissected one to ascertain my guess?

In this thread I posted a schematic and related info on how it operates.  Rather than using positive and negative halves of AC to power the motor, it uses a H-bridge to reverse motor direction from a 5V DC bus.  The mechanism can even be powered by DC voltage.

Thanks!!

Be careful not to restrict the movement of the gates while operating them. There is a small plastic gear on the motor shaft that will ream out and render the gate useless. I've also seen this gear go bad from people messing with the limit adjustment screws too.

If someone would please kindly post a wiring diagram of these gates with a DPDT relay,  I would much appreciate it.  

You don't need a DPDT relay, just an SPDT relay.

If you already have a DPDT relay you can use it and leave the 2nd Pole disconnected.  The 2 coil inputs to the relay go to whatever provides relay coil voltage when you want the gates to go down.  Remove the coil voltage and the gates go back up.  This coil voltage can be AC or DC depending on the type of relay you have.   If you are starting from scratch with an empty cupboard (i.e., you don't have a parts stash), I strongly recommend going with 12V DC-coil relays because they are inexpensive (about $1 each, free shipping from Asia).

hey GPR!

Side discussion - Are you working on this year's Christmas layout!

Moonman posted:

hey GPR!

Side discussion - Are you working on this year's Christmas layout!

me?

yes, I have something in the works.  will release pictures once it's complete.

previewing an 80% version of it at a local church bazaar this weekend.

have a few more tweaks to make to get it fully the way that I want

Garrett76 posted:

Moonman posted:

hey GPR!

Side discussion - Are you working on this year's Christmas layout!

me?

yes, I have something in the works.  will release pictures once it's complete.

previewing an 80% version of it at a local church bazaar this weekend.

have a few more tweaks to make to get it fully the way that I want

Yep! A few of us look forward to seeing the changes each year. Tried to put the reindeer passenger car set together - the separates are being sold for way to much - picked up the 3 car expansion pack at a fair price, though. The Hershey train inspired a friend to build one for Christmas layout.

GARRETT76 thanks for posting your question, and STAN2004 thanks for responding.  I've had these gates for over a year and just about gave up trying to make them work the way I wanted them to.  This 'audience participation' method solved my problem, and gives the grandkids something else to play with.

Hey all, sorry to revive this discussion.  I’m new to the electrical piece of model railroading.  My in laws gave me a set of these MTH gates several years back, and I haven’t gotten them up and running because I was trying to build a DPDT switch to use a piece of track to activate - it got put on hold.  Anyway, at a hobby shop I found an Atlas Snap Relay, and I’m wondering if I could use it with the insulated track.  If so can anyone give me instructions on how to wire it?? Thanks, in advance, for your help!

Try this:

I might add that I put a switch in the insulated rail lead so I could just operate the gates for visitors. They have plastic gears and a mechanism prone to make trouble. I use 12 vdc on these and most other accessories.

Thanks, John H.  I think that makes sense.  I’m hoping to setup my holiday trains in the next week or two, so I will give this a try.  Just out of curiosity, you said you use 12vdc for accessories?  I’ve always powered my accessories through my MTH z-4000.  Is that a bad idea?  I’m assuming that AC power?

AC is fine for accessories. I use a PC power supply that I salvaged from an old computer, so the price was “just right”. All lighting is led, so the dc doesn’t need diodes. It also has a lightning fast breaker. Also 12 vdc and 5 vdc relays are easier to find and much cheaper than AC relays. I do have a Lionel V transformer for a few accessories that need “dialing in”, such as the oil drum loader and milk car. Most PC power supplies are 300 watts or higher, and very inexpensive, especially used. For a temporary layout, you method is probably much easier.

@John H posted:

AC is fine for accessories. I use a PC power supply that I salvaged from an old computer, so the price was “just right”. All lighting is led, so the dc doesn’t need diodes. It also has a lightning fast breaker. Also 12 vdc and 5 vdc relays are easier to find and much cheaper than AC relays. I do have a Lionel V transformer for a few accessories that need “dialing in”, such as the oil drum loader and milk car. Most PC power supplies are 300 watts or higher, and very inexpensive, especially used. For a temporary layout, you method is probably much easier.

Hey so I have one quick question.  I like the idea of having a switch to activate the gates versus an insulated track.  I found a SPDT switch on Amazon that has a cool lighted LED around the outside.  I hooked the crossing gate wires up to the switch with the NO, NC, and Common, but I powered the crossing gate from the 14V accessory output and I powered the LED push button switch using the 10V accessory output.  Everything worked, but I’m now wondering if I possible sent 10V through the NO, NC, and C lines.  Is that a problem to the crossing gate if it did that?? This is the switch I purchased: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07R...oding=UTF8&psc=1

Thanks for all your help; I truly appreciate it!!

Kindly,

Seth

It looks like the red and black wires are only powering the led, so you are not powering the switched wires with 10 volts. You might want to add a diode in the 10 volt line to feed DC to the led. Your ACC voltage I'm assuming is AC.

Is there a reason to feed DC power instead of AC to the LED?  I believe you are right in that the power is AC from the ACC output of the Z-4000.  From what I could tell, the button accepted AC or DC.  Also, what sort of diode would I use?  Sorry for all the questions!! I need to spend some time studying electrical wiring!

All LEDs use DC. The reverse voltage on one half of the AC cycle will shorten the life of an LED. I didn't see a voltage designation, only 12 volts, and usually that is associated with automotive use. I'd be glad to send you a diode if you like.

@John H posted:

All LEDs use DC. The reverse voltage on one half of the AC cycle will shorten the life of an LED. I didn't see a voltage designation, only 12 volts, and usually that is associated with automotive use. I'd be glad to send you a diode if you like.

That would be great if you don’t mind doing so. Or if you can recommend what diodes to buy, I’m happy to purchase.  I have 6 total buttons with the LED light rings.  I will say the Amazon description says they’re okay DC or AC.  Let me know, and if you still think it’s best to use the diode I can PM my contact info.  

"OK DC or AC" may be referring to the switch rating as opposed to the LED rating.  Since suitable diodes are less than a nickel, it's cheap insurance.

From Amazon Q&A for the switch:

@stan2004 posted:

"OK DC or AC" may be referring to the switch rating as opposed to the LED rating.  Since suitable diodes are less than a nickel, it's cheap insurance.

Ahh, that makes sense.  I did some reading and YouTube watching on diodes last night.  So is what I want a rectifier diode?  Is 1 sufficient?  Or do I need to the setup of 4 that I read about?  If I have 6 LED’s, can I use 1 diode setup (of either the 1 or the 4) to power all 6?  If you can link to an option that would be helpful.  I love to learn so I know what I’m doing.  Sorry for all the questions!!

Gratefully,

Seth

PS - my little engineer who is 3 and his 2 older sisters are going to be ecstatic when I get all of this up and running for Christmas!

Seth.

You can use a single diode on each button, or, depending on the location of the buttons, you could use one on the red or black wire to power all of them from a terminal strip. Email me and I'll send you what you need.

@John H posted:

Seth.

You can use a single diode on each button, or, depending on the location of the buttons, you could use one on the red or black wire to power all of them from a terminal strip. Email me and I'll send you what you need.

Thanks, John!  I really appreciate it.  I sent an email to the address listed in your profile.  Let me know if you didn’t receive it.