I recently picked up a Lionel Hershey's locomotive and tender. The sales literature says realistic air whistle in tender. It sounds like something physically spools up to create the sound, not a sound file through speaker. Any thoughts? Thanks
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I am asking how is the sound generated. It seems different from the two other 0-8-0 starter sets I have
It works pretty much the way you said it work. There is a two chamber air box and an impeller that generates the air flow which, in turn, causes the air chambers to act as whistles. Much the way when we were kids (or kids at heart) and blew air over a coke bottle opening to make it whistle.
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It works pretty much the way you said it work. There is a two chamber air box and an impeller that generates the air flow which, in turn, causes the air chambers to act as whistles. Much the way when we were kids (or kids at heart) and blew air over a coke bottle opening to make it whistle.
Here ya go.... 'Realistic Air Whistles'! ....
In fact this pair looks like just the ticket for hours....and hours....and hours....and hours.........of fun for the kids while playing with their trains!!....right, mom & dad???
A 3-chime tooter and a horn-y sorta hooter....very railroad-esque, I'd say!
Why, those can even ride along in the car on the next family vacation!!
Of course, nowadays there's probably an APP for this on the kiddies' pocket phone....'high tech', ya know.
All part of getting the younger generation into the ol' hobby!!
Garret, the old Lionels had a series-wound motor-driven whistle, to spin the impeller, which is as was described above. Pitch increased as motor sped up.
The load of the motor was such that, combined with voltage drop in the #167 whistle controller, caused a marked slowdown in loco speed. When Lionel came out with the ZW, it overcame this by causing the whistle lever to cut in another few turns of the secondary winding, to increase the output voltage
The modern air whistle is a DC motor, small DC offset sensing board, and of course, the actual whistle chamber.
Probably costs more to make than an electronic whistle, and not as realistic-sounding, so what's the point (except nostalgia)?
Probably costs more to make than an electronic whistle, and not as realistic-sounding, so what's the point (except nostalgia)?
A good air whistle sounds better than a bad electronic whistle.
The first (so far as I know) Lionel electronic whistle was that with the "Mighty Sound of Steam", which I first heard from my 785 scale Hudson of the 80's. The whistle AND the "chuffing" gives real meaning to the old saying: "silence is golden". The sounds emanating from that tender should not have been inflicted on anyone. Fortunately, the quality of the Mighty Sound of Steam components was marginal and many just mercifully died.
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It's kind of funny (I mean this in a friendly way) that someone in the O-gauge hobby would not know about air whistles. This makes me feel very old. I can still take my 2055 Hudson tender off the shelf, turn it over and blow in the impeller hole to make it whistle. Try blowing on your circuit boards and see what you get!
Of course a grown man blowing on an old toy is a whole 'nuther conversation; the medication seems to be helping, a bit...
Thanks all for your replies. I am surprised to learn the physical air whistle is used in a modern product. carryover design from earlier periods, I guess. I don't care for the toylike sound. Wth multiple trains running, I'll defer to the sounds on the LC+
Well, many a grown man has taken pleasure in the sound of the air whistle sounds from multiple tenders, and those in stations and other stationary buildings. I recall the grin on my father's face while we ran our Lionel trains around our layouts and across the living room floor Christmas mornings. And yes, the sounds of multiple tender "air" whistles is an enjoyable sound all of it's own. It is much more than simple nostalgia, it is actually part of American history. That is how I have thought of my Dad and I with running our trains. The time spent together on the living room floor, or in the garage with our layouts.... time of the best memories and learning from the greatest man I have ever known.
Hard for me to believe people prefer the electronic whistles, honestly. The electronic sounds tend to just sound poor in my opinion, like they're recorded and coming from a mediocre speaker (which they are). The old motorized whistles might not be exact, but they at least sound like an actual whistle and not an overtaxed speaker..
@gunrunnerjohn posted:The modern air whistle is a DC motor, small DC offset sensing board, and of course, the actual whistle chamber.
John, I pulled the original RTR Hogwarts Express set out of storage. Grandson is now into Harry. It runs fine...the whistle doesn't work. However, when I apply power from a 9v battery, the motor runs fine making that sweet sound of the air whistle. I checked continuity form the power and ground pickups to what I think is the "offset sensing board" you mention. I tried using my Cab2 whistle button...nada. Then I used the whistle button on the ZW-L...nada and then I used the whistle button on a ZW. You, guessed it, nada. I think there must be something wrong with the board, but, I have no idea how to check that. I looked for the circuit board part in Lionel's database...couldn't find it. Although I found what looks like the same thing for the G gauge tender...but, it's unavailable. I'm at a loss in figuring out what to do next. Help! Thanks
Looks like you'll have to see if you can fix that board, none of those seem to be available on Lionel Parts.
Ugh. Do I need to replace each component?
Hit post too quickly. Meant to also ask if you you have a suggested sequence in replacing components?
I'd probably replace the transistor first, that's the top suspect. If that doesn't do it, replace the diode. Most of the time, one of those components will be the culprit.
Also, when you get it working, if you want it louder, see the attached PDF for a fix.
Here's also a schematic.
Thanks, John. As for making the whistle louder...my Grandson thinks the whistle button is the throttle, so I may have to give that some thought..
The whistles were very faint as a rule. I don't have one of those, so I can't see what exact number that transistor is, but according to the schematic it's a Darlington pair.
@ToledoEd posted:John, I pulled the original RTR Hogwarts Express set out of storage. Grandson is now into Harry. It runs fine...the whistle doesn't work. However, when I apply power from a 9v battery, the motor runs fine making that sweet sound of the air whistle. I checked continuity form the power and ground pickups to what I think is the "offset sensing board" you mention. I tried using my Cab2 whistle button...nada. Then I used the whistle button on the ZW-L...nada and then I used the whistle button on a ZW. You, guessed it, nada. I think there must be something wrong with the board, but, I have no idea how to check that. I looked for the circuit board part in Lionel's database...couldn't find it. Although I found what looks like the same thing for the G gauge tender...but, it's unavailable. I'm at a loss in figuring out what to do next. Help! Thanks
The electronics on the PCB are polarity sensitive. If it doesn’t work on the track try reversing the leads to the track.
GR: yeah, I’ve not been able to find the on the parts website. For something that seems to have a moderate fail rate, you’d think Lionel would produce some extras.
Steve
John, I replaced the transistor and diode with generic components I had on hand...not sure values, frankly. I had them for LED project. Cleaned the contacts again, removed the resistor as shown in the pdf you attached and checked continuity again. All good, but, no whistle. I then put my 70 year old air whistle tender on the track on the outside chance the ZW I had did not send the correct, whatever to the tender, but, good ol'e OLD Lionel blew out my ear drums. I'm stumped. I just ordered some new components: ( think the diode is exactly as indicated on the wiring diagram, as for the transistor, I have no idea). when these show up, I'll replace what's on the board with these and hope for the best. Oh, I also checked to be sure the traces on the board were not broken (scratched) and they all looked fine. Any chance you have a source for a board I can purchase and swap out? I'd prefer doing that. Thanks again for your help.
Order number: 15-07892-52885
Note that I said it was a Darlington transistor, that's a special type, not what you ordered. What is the actual number on the transistor in the whistle board?
Try this transistor: Diodes Inc BCX38C NPN Darlington.
I have never forgotten the whistle of my 1947 Lionel Berkshire 726. I fondly remember it and like it more than todays electronic whistles.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Try this transistor: Diodes Inc BCX38C NPN Darlington.
Thanks. I did search for "Darlington pair" but what I found didn't visually match the half round shape. I ordered the above. The actual number is: KSP13-H15. i searched on that number and couldn't find it.... Again thanks for your help and patience.
Thanks, John. Hope to have this working before Christmas.
Those boards rarely go bad. Have you tried reversing the power leads to the track as suggested? If you are using a postwar transformer, move the whistle control only half-way, and the loco must be on the track to draw a load. Finally, if you do need a replacement board, drop me a line.
Chuck, I did try reversing the power. Did not work. I am using both a PW ZW (on my test bed) and a ZWL on the layout. Made no difference. Tried the half-way at your suggestion...Nada. Thanks for the suggestions. Frankly, I have no recollection of the whistle ever working, but that was over 14 years ago.... I have trouble remembering what I did this morning!
@Chuck Sartor posted:Those boards rarely go bad. Have you tried reversing the power leads to the track as suggested? If you are using a postwar transformer, move the whistle control only half-way, and the loco must be on the track to draw a load. Finally, if you do need a replacement board, drop me a line.
Sent an email to you yesterday.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:The KSP13 has similar specifications to the one I pointed out. The BCX38C should do the trick.
Here's the datasheet for the KSP13.
Gunrunnerjohn, I replaced the transistor with the one you suggested. I replaced the transistor and it did not blow. I reversed the direction of the transistor, and now, the whistle blows constantly....I also replaced the diode. I'm stumped.
@ToledoEd posted:Gunrunnerjohn, I replaced the transistor with the one you suggested. I replaced the transistor and it did not blow. I reversed the direction of the transistor, and now, the whistle blows constantly....I also replaced the diode. I'm stumped.
Maybe a silly question, but are you bench testing with leads? Just making sure the pickup roller isn't the issue. I had a tender that blew intermittently and ended up that there wasn't enough tension pushing down on the tender pickup. Sorry if you already answered this, but something that came to mind.
I bought one of those boards to fix the issue, but it's now in my parts boxes for backup. Let me know of you really want one and I can try and dig it out for you!
I think I've reached the limit of ASCII troubleshooting. 
@gunrunnerjohn posted:I think I've reached the limit of ASCII troubleshooting.
Oh, no! 
Thanks for trying. I think I have bad electricity...yeah, that's it, bad electricity.
They just don't make electricity like they used to.
The old Lionel air whistles of the past could have been even better and more realistic if they operated on steam like the real train whistles did. Even better would have been to put them in the locomotive and let us see real steam coming from the locomotive whistle.
Charlie
@Choo Choo Charlie posted:The old Lionel air whistles of the past could have been even better and more realistic if they operated on steam like the real train whistles did. Even better would have been to put them in the locomotive and let us see real steam coming from the locomotive whistle.
Talk about a trip to fantasy land!
I use a PW ZW on my test bed. The 70+ year old tenders (I have 2) air whistles work on my test bed using the whistle button on the ZW. They do not work on my layout powered by a ZW-L. Not with the button on the transformer or using the Cab-2. Is it because of the difference in the sine-wave of the two transformers, or something else. Just curious as to why. . Thanks.
Ed, I am no expert by any means. But I am inclined to think, that the basic electronics of a tender whistle of 70 years ago will not recognize the signals/sine waves of todays advanced electronics.... TAKE A BREAK. Give yourself some time out.... and, well start again.. you have 5 weeks till Christmas'....
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