How significant loss of collector's value if one upgrades the loco electronics

I am not a collector, but the price of a PS3 upgrade would figure into what I would be willing to pay for a PS1 engine. The PS1 engine would not be worth a lot to me in it's original PS1 form. I am only interested in command control stuff, that was a big factor into getting me back into the hobby a few years ago.

I'm not a "collector" only as I operate everything I own. I've upgraded my original PS1 N&W "J" with ERR CC + ERR Railsounds as I wanted a command engine; I also got away from "clanking" and leaky batteries that freeze electronic systems. I figure it didn't decrease its value but actually helped it some.

I've recently had a spate of TAS control systems develop their own issues to the point they didn't run at all or opted spastically. I've since upgraded these Atlas"O" engines with ERR components as well since the basic engines were good running chassis topped with outstanding , detailed bodies. I figure I brought them up to today's standards with supportable control systems.

In summary, to me upgraded electronics actually maintain value or in some cases, actually increase it depending on what favorite control system you cherish.

I am not a collector either and I would tend to believe that collectors are more into older, vintage trains. I could be completely wrong of course, but with the development of all of the new electronics and "bells and whistles" of what has been produced in the last decade, these trains are meant to be run, not to be on shelves. I have no data and only pure guess, but I would hypothesize that as time continues there will be fewer and fewer collectors and mostly operators. 

Rick

You can buy Porto one Models for very good prices from dealers who still have it to clear stock. I think putting in TMCC and all the fancy stuff in a Hogwarts engine might make it worth 500 dollars

Since most of the collector market has tanked I do not see a severe loss but it also depends on what you want. I seriously doubt anything made today will be a collector item. There is so much inventory on the market that you could find something at a price you want and modify away. I put an ERR commander into an MPC era F3 Pennsylvania locomotive and it runs great. I recently bought a Lionel DC only western set with a little 0-4-0 that I put an ERR mini commander into just for fun with the added benefit of now being able to run it on AC. I would say just have fun!

I tend to side with those folks who think that upgrading the electronics of their engines will more likely enhance their value. It certainly works with Proto 1 locomotives and ERR TMCC conversions.  My only caveat here is that the upgrade needs to be done "right".  It needs to work correctly, without homemade" glitches.

Ed Boyle

I agree with Ed and the others.....upgraded equipment will enhance its value. it must be done right and it must be clean and neat. Will it be worth all your invested money? maybe, maybe not......all depends if the person purchasing an upgraded piece has the same tastes or wants as the guy trying to sell it. but if you like the piece and want to upgrade it, DO IT....and have fun!

Round numbers:

Consider your original PS-1 has depreciated to about 1/3 of the original cost. Add the cost of the PS-3 upgrade and you're back to 1/2 to 2/3 of the original cost. When you factor in the features and command control, you've enhanced it's overall value.

I have two thoughts regarding this question...

I think most of us would say that buying toy trains is not an investment opportunity. I have upgraded many PS1 locos. To my mind, upgrading a non-investment is still a non-investment. I upgrade locos because I want to run an old friend.

My upgraded PS1 locos (to TMCC) by and large are reliable performers. I use them for events like open houses where trains run for hours at a time. Realistically, the quality bar in our hobby has risen over the years... locos today look and sound far better than those we bought in the 1990s.

Just my take...

Jan

I had a Williams steam loco that I upgraded to fan driven smoke and TMCC. I couldn't sell it for the longest time. Finally, I stripped out all the upgrades, and reinstalled the crappy seuthe type smoke unit that spits and sputters. The engine sold for full price the next day, and I kept all the nice upgrades to use on a future project.

Upgrading the electronics of a pre/postwar locomotive in the manner you suggest is blasphemy and does not enhance its value to me.

I do not see that the current market shows MPC/PS1 locomotives to be generally collectible, so as long as the modifications are clean, the added features of a newer command receiver may be more desirable and more valuable to potential buyers.

If you have a dud locomotive because the stock electronics burned out, obviously an upgrade enhances the potential value.

I'm keeping my inherited PW engines in their original, conventional PW state, but that decision is more about honoring my grandfather and our family's memories of conventional operations. 

I'm upgrading or selling every modern conventional engine I picked up in recent years. I think any upgrade of electronics in an MPC or modern engine would enhance its value, not diminish it.  Newer electronics are more capable than early generation (1990s) engine electronics.

One of the guys in our club made a comment in an OGR video of his layout a number of years back.  Bill said the value of a train is the enjoyment he gets from watching it run.  

Bill's comment was with regard to weathering his engines and rolling stock but; the same thought applies to upgrading the electronics or otherwise improving the operating characteristics of an engine.  If the upgrade makes you enjoy the engine more, then the money is well spent.

Curt

I'd suggest that in certain cases a gutting of ProtoSounds 1 for TMCC or P2/P3 upgrade might be a downgrade.

While the control would of course be an upgrade, the specific sound set features for something like an original D or E Train (or the 1st Chicago set prior to PS2.0) would be lost if you were to replace the PS 1 electronics.  (I may be mistaken if MTH has recently offered these old items again with the same station announcements in Proto2/3, but for quite a few years, I don't think they re-made those sets with newer electronics.)  Obviously the Proto 1 versions were not as cool as auto-mode station stops of Proto2/3, but to me, I would rather have them with the original announcements intact.

In a similar note, any other special effects such as the Lumber Yard effects found in an early Shay I believe would be a similar situation.  (I am sure there are other examples, those are just ones I am familiar with off the top of my head).

Of course, if the Proto 1 electronics had died anyway, then noting lost by upgrading the electronic, IMO.  There may be a rare exception to the rule here or there, but I doubt the average collector  would  value an original (but functionally disabled with bad boards) Proto 1 engine as worth more just to be "all original".

-Dave

Most trains do not have any real collector value any more. Anything with PS1 needs an upgrade to maintain any real value.

I've upgraded every engine that I could for my enjoyment. I don't think upgrades will increase any value.  Engines that I paid $1000.00 for in the 80's and early 90's can now be bought at York for $250.00 to $300.00 Range. When it's time to sell I'll get what I can.  I certainly don't expect to  get much.

Rod Miller

  The modern era trains, really won't reach "collectibility" in a vintage sense for a long while. At that time (if ever), an original should be worth more, even dead. But that is assuming collecting doesn't follow a new course too.

Another take; What do think a museum of the future would wish to purchase for display (on a shelf) the loco with additions, or the loco as produced by the factory.

Resale today, to an electronics crowd, Id think most would prefer the upgrades. I would, and Im not even a command fan.... additional work correctly done would be a concern though. For a complicated job, I might prefer to do the work myself.

Another exception, 'rare moderns'. Though rare in itself, Id try to keep a low production modern model as is, new or old. (not pw old).

I look at it in two ways. 1 I would only upgrade what I plan to keep and use for my enjoyment. 

2 the only thing I might think it would hurt it's value if anything at all would be a highly collectible pre or post war train. As to me, those can still be run in conventional mode if you want, so actually my way of thinking it is you just up graded the E-unit. I would probably shy away thou if it was something highly collectible from buying as I like postwar trains original even don't like Pill converted to liquid smoke units.  

With that said in the past I have converted some Williams to TMCC. 

There are really two markets for toy/model trains. There is a collectors market and an operators market.

As far as I know, there really isn't much of a collectors market for Modern era trains with electronics by any manufacturer. Should one evolve, people will want the trains to be as sold by the factory.

IMHO, most of the folks who have posted here about enhancing the value by upgrading the electronics are looking from the perspective of the operators market. I have to agree with them.

Regardless, I would not worry about the future value of modern era trains. There is so much stuff out there for a dwindling audience. Do what you want. Don't spend money you shouldn't. Trains are not an investment.

The market value of most antiques and collectables are dropping. It isn't just trains. Its hard to collect things when one wants to be mobile, and/or live in a tiny home.