How to bring customers into your train store! FOR STORE OWNERS

OK Charlie, thats an darn tooting good idear. Ill bring that one up to the owner of the store I work at.

I would participate in that here, however I don't see Lionel doing such a program .  In my store, I offer 6 month lay-aways with no fees and no interest, something that is hard to get on the internet without giving a credit card for monthly charges.  The lay-aways are very popular here.   If needed I'll also throw in two 10 inch sections with a set to help close a deal.    In addition, I sell gift certificates and push them around various holidays, for father's day I plan on advertising $50.00 gift cards for $40.00 with limits as there are always those who take advantage of things like that.  When I sell kids RTR sets I let them pick another piece of rolling stock from one of my tables of open stock again which doesn't happen on line.  I have a jar full of free candy (for when they leave), I have a box full of items that are really not good enough to sell so I'll give them to the kids even if they don't have a trains set, also give away old catalogs and magazines for them to read, you would be surprised how many times they come back just because of those little freebees.   Finally, I have found that my greatest success in acquiring new customers is local advertising, I have a monthly advertising budget and I use it every month, it really works even during the slow season.  The ads always include either discounts, free stuff, two for ones, last month I advertised that I would pay the sales tax which in my store is 6-3/4%, this month it's my Cinco De Mayo sale offering 5% off at checkout for the entire month.    I'm a small dealer and I don't get a lot of help from Lionel or MTH and I have asked for it so it's on my shoulders to get customers in here.  I try all kinds of things and again would be willing to participate in your suggested program.

Thanks, Nick.

You are onto something.  My latest visits to two separate Stores:

1) stopped in for caboose light bulb,  walked out with bulb & Willams Loco 765.

2) stopped for Die Cast trucks, walked out with trucks as well as discontinued Chessie Baby Madison 3pak. 

Two words - Display Layout.

Nothing sells trains like a RUNNING display.

Charlienassau posted:

 

FREE TRACK! Who doesn't want something for free?

"A round of track for the boys..." -Joe McDoaks

Rusty

J Daddy posted:

Two words - Display Layout.

Nothing sells trains like a RUNNING display.

X2.

A running display hooks the kids (and some adults) but the kids will nag their parents and the parents will try not to disappoint the kids.

Bogie

In my case having a layout proved to be more of a hindrance and expensive.   Too much damage by both children and adults, takes up too much floor space, and too loud.  I found that my store became a baby sitting stop for grandpas and dads waiting for their wives getting their nails done next door, they rarely bought anything and I had to sit there instead of doing work at the other end of the store.   I do keep a small oval test track for just that, testing.  When I had an operating track, parents would leave their kids at the track and go look around, that's when all the damage would occur.  They would stand on set boxes to reach over and grab the trains, put a foot through the front of the box, knock over accessories, try to speed up the train, pull on transformer cords, etc.  I am a one man store and really don't want to go through that again.  I have horror stories about some of these parents and grandparents, can't blame the kids, they only know what they're taught.

Well I would appreciate a display layout but I have also seen the carnage an unsupervised 3 or 4 year can do to some hard work.  That and the parents who take on the "it's just my cherub being angelic" drove one shop I know to the brink.  I really don't need any free stuff.  What I would like is an organized shop where items are easy to locate, one that does not require you to be a yoga expert to navigate.  A shop where if you purchase something the clerk engages you with a question like, "what are you working on", or "have you considered this".  Also I would like a shop where the "good old boys" are not swapping stories they have told each other dozens of times while I am waiting to pay and be on my way.  More than once an item was returned to the shelf because it just wasn't worth the wait.  My words of advice, skip the free stuff, the margins are too thin already.  Be clean, organized, engaging and willing to teach.  Those shops earn my repeat business and will have me forego the internet every time.

Thank you for addressing this thread to dealers only.....

My two cents on Lionel (and this idea)

My first and greatest request to Lionel would be to open their direct dealer network to the rest of us dealers and level the playing field in dealer margins and product availability as MTH Electric Trains does so well.

Second, I do support getting more customers into my store and would support the free track proposal with the understanding Lionel, MTH etc.  would reimburse us for the cost of the track.

As a store owner I make sure my customers are greeted and helped by a friendly and supportive staff in both the retail and factory trained service departments.  Most new customers that leave my store have a copy of the latest catalog free in their hands.  I have been in the business for 17 years and I have a clean, brightly lit modern store with current inventory on my shelves.

Starter sets are the way to get new people into the hobby.  Along with Charlie's idea, we need new and creative ways to get new customers to walk into their local hobby store.  In the upstate NY area alone, we have lost 3 model train stores in the last 2 years.  Gardner the Train Doctor and I are the last two model train stores left in the Central, Northern and Southern New York State.

I not only ask Lionel, but MTH Electric Trains, Atlas, Bachmann Trains etc. to step up and support the dealers, more than they are now.

JR Junction posted:

 

My first and greatest request to Lionel would be to open their direct dealer network to the rest of us dealers and level the playing field in dealer margins and product availability as MTH Electric Trains does so well.

 

I have to agree 100% there.   

Henning's Trains has an operating layout with three loops, it's not really that big, but it does attract the kids.  I've personally seen it sell a few sets that sure didn't look like they were going before the kids got playing with the trains.  Nothing expensive is on the tracks, and the speed is limited, it's just a kid magnet.  Normally there's two conventional locomotives and a LionChief on the tracks. 

Note the strategic location of all the sets below the platform.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Henning's Trains has an operating layout with three loops, it's not really that big, but it does attract the kids.  I've personally seen it sell a few sets that sure didn't look like they were going before the kids got playing with the trains.  Nothing expensive is on the tracks, and the speed is limited, it's just a kid magnet.  Normally there's two conventional locomotives and a LionChief on the tracks. 

Note the strategic location of all the sets below the platform.

That is nice and with a display like that its perfect to introduce kids to the fun of trains. The first time my son saw a train go through a tunnel and come out the other side - he just screamed with laughter...

A pot of coffee, for coffee drinkers helps also. A basket of Tootsie Pops on the counter is everybody's favorite. 

While I do not own a train shop I did own a camera shop for almost twenty years and have faced these same problems of how to attract customers. Attracting them is first step, having them keep coming back to you is the second step.

I truly believe it's how you treat people that makes them come back.  All of the suggestions here are great.  I especially like the layaway program. We did the same thing with cameras.

Forty years ago I was in high school and washed dishes at a restaurant. I bought my first camera for $180 by using layaway. I made payments each week, usually $15 or $20. I had about $40 remaining and stopped in to make my weekly payment. I eagerly told the salesman "next week I'm going to take it home with me!" As he wrote out my receipt he said "hang on a minute I'll be right back" He was back a few minutes later with my camera and a couple rolls of film "on the house". Fearing he had heard me wrong, I quickly explained that it was the following week I was planning to pay it off and take it home. I didn't have all of the money this week. He just smiled. He held up the slip where he had recorded my weekly payments. " I showed this to the boss" he said. "You've made payments every week. The boss said take it home tonight - we trust you for the balance."

Because they took the time to know me, they trusted me, and believe me that was not the last purchase I made at that shop. 

Twenty years later I had an opportunity to buy my own camera shop. I wasn't sure if I could do it on my own, so I went back to see that original salesman, who now owned that shop. I was hoping to convince him to be my partner in the new shop. He was near retirement, and politely declined my offer, but he did share some great advice. Know you customers personally, he said, and they will be your customers for life. 

Having a hobby shop must be a challenge in today's market place.  Particularly when buyers are becoming ever more save about how to get the best deal.  They can shop all over the internet for the best price and still come into your store to see the item in person.  I do realize that most shops probably sell in-line as well as having their store open to the public.  But at what point do they have to call it a day.  

A few of the on-line shops that I have dealt with over the years have closed their doors in the past decade.  Ridge Road Station, Watts Train Shop are the two that come to mind.  But there were others that I cannot recall at the moment.  

While I can sympathize with the shop owners who have stated that an operating layout is more trouble than it's worth, why not enclose it with glass to keep hands away ?  

The train store where I work successfully attracts many new customers by distributing old train magazines (with marketing stickers attached) to all the doctors' office waiting rooms in our area known to be frequented by old men such as urologists, etc. 

Charlienassau posted:

I have brought this up before but I am not going to let this idea die. I would love to hear comment from store owners only please. 

Train set sales are still the best way to get a future customer. In this day in age we need to come up with a way to "drive" customers into our stores. Since many of us don't make that first train set sale because it is bought on Amazon, E-Bay or a Big Box store we don't really get any new customers. So how do we get those people into your store? 

FREE TRACK! Who doesn't want something for free? We all know what "Customer Acquisition" cost is? No, Ok it is the price we pay to get someone into the store. Whether we spend money on advertising or giveaways we all have a extra price that we figure into our prices. My idea is simple. Place a sticker or a paper in each set with a web site on it. When you go to that site it would have a listing of "Participating dealers" who will give you TWO free pieces of Fastrack. One piece paid for by Lionel and the other by you, the store owner! The customer surrenders the paper and he is handed 2 pieces of track. Your cost is about 4.00 and you now have a customer in your store! Will he walk out with just the two pieces of the track only? I doubt it. You get him into my store and we will sell him a load of stuff and you will too! He will see that Lionel makes a whole world of add ons and expansion ideas! Its a Win-Win situation for both you and Lionel! Lionel is now converting a one time customer into a hobbyist and you are gaining a new customer! 

 

 

I would love to hear what other dealers think about this and if they would like to participate if Lionel decided to do something like this? 

Better idea! Take away amazons tax exemptions. Go to a fair sales tax on Internet purchases...

Two pieces of track is not enough to overcome the cost savings or convenience typically found on Amazon.  A loop would be more attractive or a free piece of rolling stock.  An operating display is also key.

Please, I would like to hear from dealers specifically about this idea to get internet customers into a Brick and Mortor store. 

The cost of the track would be split between Lionel and the dealer and it would be only offered to participating dealers who would like to be included. 

I am not a dealer, but with luck will soon be a manufacturer. I am interested in what this thread has come up with, pretty much all of which are excellent ideas. So here is my 2 cents on the matter, as both a customer and one who will have to deal with these problems soon (hopefully): why not throw in a Plasticville kit? A nice station to go with a set, mebe $20 used on that throwin, starts a kid on a new layout instead of just a set.

As you know it is hard to be competitive there is very little markup on the beginner sets so it's hard to give away much of anything to get them started.  I price my sets somewhere between the internet prices and suggested retail.  People come in the store that have never owned a train and are shocked at the prices.  Many of them state that they didn't think these were over $100.00 and if I suggest one of the imagineering push/pull sets that are well under $50.00 they show no interest.  It is a tough sell.  Another problem with these beginner sets like Thomas and Friends, mothers read 8 years and older and freak out thinking their son will get shocked or worse and I have lost multiple sales because of that little warning even after my trying to explain it away.   There are very few kids 8 years old that will play with a Thomas train set.  Next problem, after they have the initial set, anything else that they want is also available on the internet, tracks, switches, etc. some of these are priced below  what my cost is as a dealer.  Here is an example for those of you who are dealers, how is Mario's able to sell Z-4000 transformers for $384.00 new with a warranty and pay for their time to package and ship it, they surely are not paying what I am.  My store is 100% trains, nothing else so I put all my energy into one product trying to figure out how to bring in more traffic and how to turn a profit and still be competitive, it's hard.  My store is neat, clean, organized, don't have to walk sideways or over boxes to find things, and everything is clearly marked with a price but without customers it is all for not.  Since opening my store a little over a year ago 4 retailers nearby have shut down which you wold think is helpful however during the process of shutting down they drop their prices in many cases well below cost to move their inventory out before they close.  It's harder to compete with that situation than with the internet.  Anyway I'm still here but getting off topic so I'll close for now.

Nick

How about a dealer convention?  I would offer Mercer PA as a meeting point.  lol

How about a private dealer group on Facebook?

How about a dealer convention?  I would offer Mercer PA as a meeting point.  lol

We just had one in Las Vegas, the NRHSA assoc. trade show at www.nrhsa.org

How about a private dealer group on Facebook?

We do, hobbyshopowners group on Yahoo. You can google it and join if you have a legit store.

Charlienassau posted:

How about a dealer convention?  I would offer Mercer PA as a meeting point.  lol

We just had one in Las Vegas, the NRHSA assoc. trade show at www.nrhsa.org

 

How about a private dealer group on Facebook?

We do, hobbyshopowners group on Yahoo. You can google it and join if you have a legit store.

Charlie, Nick,

I like it.  I think there are some great things that we could ALL do to ensure the survival of our hobby if we all acted together. 

Dave

Getting Lionel to agree to offer dealers one free piece of Fastrack to give a new customer is a simple place to start, however there are still bigger issues I don't mind calling Lionel out on:

A)  Two years ago, our dealer margins for starter sets were much larger than they are now forcing us to shop-around several middle-man distributors for best terms.  Who is getting a bigger piece of the pie now?  Not the dealer.

B)  Lionel have open direct relationships with mass online retailers including, but not limited to Amazon.  Our Lionel service station is now spending our own time and resources repairing trains for customer that purchased their set from Amazon as a one-shot deal.  Many of these consumers  are not necessarily looking to get into the model railroad hobby full time.

C)  Lionel has chopped the Advertising CO-OP dollars for most starter sets in half.  What used to be $5-$10/per qualifying set is now only $5 per all qualifying sets.  These co-op dollars helped us spend more money on TV/Radio/Print adverts to promote Lionel starter sets.

D)  Lionel has recently announced they discontinued the quantity of one (1) Lionel Dealer Appreciation Boxcar they have generously given free to us dealers that work hard to promote and service their products.  This was a small token of appreciation by Lionel to dealers for many years.  We (I) actually looked forward to adding this car to my personal collection as a "mile marker" for every year in the business.  Lionel stated they will "utilize the monies allocated for this program towards initiatives to help grow sales for the entire channel. "  This is something they should be already doing regardless.

E)  Lionel has produced  "Lionel Dealer Exclusive" starter sets that are only available through Authorized Lionel Dealers.  This is good start, however these "exclusive sets" come at a larger price point than the basic popular sets such as the Thomas and Polar Express sets that are our yearly top Lionel starter set sellers.  Why not expand this idea to affordable, quality sets that will actually be as popular as Thomas and the Polar Express?

F)  Where are the Lionel sales persons that used to visit our stores?  Why do only the "Top Ten" Lionel direct account dealers ever hear from them personally?  What perks are we missing out on that we don't know we are not getting?

These along with my earlier statement of opening direct dealer accounts to level the playing field in margin and product availability are merely my opinions.

As a side note, I talk with the sales department and several others over at MTH several times weekly.  As a matter of fact, Rich Foster calls me every so often to find out how everything is going.  This shows MTH cares about how us dealers are doing and I like that personal connection.  We are able to provide MTH valuable feedback that we hear from our customers.  While I don't agree with everything MTH does or doesn't do, I certainly value our close working manufacturer/dealer relationship.

Finally, I agree with Dave, yes we dealers need to work together.  Yes Charlie, I am a member of the NRHSA already.  The only benefit from membership that I know of is the (better?) credit card processing rates.

I also got a lot of flack when the 1st National Lionel Day car's finally came in.  I was the only dealer in the Cleveland/Akron Ohio area to participate last December and was told these could only be ordered from dealers participating in the event.  I sold them at the suggested price on pre-order but after they arrived you could pick them up on the internet for 30% less, I heard a lot about that as my customers came in to pick up their cars, some of them have never returned.  Things like this just push more customers to internet dealers.  I also got burned on my first BTO Pre-order 6-82528, they were on the internet for $19.00 more than I paid for mine before it even got here, it's still sitting here in the ugliest box Lionel ever used.   I learned a few things that first year and won't let it happen to me again.  I found creative ways to bump up my profits that I won't note here but it kept me in the black.

Charlie,

Didn't Lionel do the free fastrack promotion when Jerry C and Mark were running the company? I do remember talking to Mark at York about that idea with putting a coupon on or inside the starter set box. Lionel did have a few pop up stores when the winter holidays came around. While it brought folks into those stores, it showed the average consumer that Lionel and the hobby was still in business producing great trains.

No Ted, I pushed it but Jerry and Mark were in their own world. Howard and Mark are pro-active on marketing.

Charlie,

We have proposed quite a few different ideas to Lionel over the years. In the 1990's, when I was making reproduction parts from rubber molds,, Lionel got miffed because of my use of the "L" on some parts. I received some feedback from some of my dealers and realized I could be in some legal trouble. I contacted Lionel's CEO ( I can not for the life of me remember his name), but we had weekly communications about almost anything train related. He set me up w/ licensing for our LW & TW transformers. We now mfg. many repro parts as a result. I remember one year in late January, he called and asked how I liked the new catalog. I told him I would not see it until the NY Toy Show in February. He then informed me that he took my advise and the new catalog included the retail price of all items, and that they were also adding two train sets w/ smoke, whistle, working couplers, lighted caboose etc. in PRR & NYC livery. They were also going to produce the same sets year after year as I suggested.  Some times the Co.  heads do listen to us little guys.

As far as attracting customers, we have a roughly 8' x 20' over & under outdoor layout in front of the store with Atlas track, MTH PRR freight set w / smoke & sound running most of the time, and scads of used Plasticville  for scenery. There is a 2 ft. fence along the pavement, and it is constantly  filled w/ parents & their kids watching.

Next to the store is one of our race car trailers that we outfitted w/ shelving and used "as is" trains, scenery, track and what ever we buy or trade-in that is not up to my standards for rebuilding and re-selling. It contains anything from "N" to "Standard" gage. It is only open on Saturdays, 10 AM - 4 PM, weather permitting. This is a great attraction for individuals and dealers. 

Inside the store we have a 6' x 9' Lionel Fastrack layout, very simple ,that the kids can run. Our store space is small, and many items are hung from the ceiling, on chains, like standard gage cars. There is about a 1' x  12' long display of pre war parts behind the counter, and 3 cases of rebuilt used items. Everything else is new current items. At Christmas, we do give away w/ set purchases engineers hats for the kids free. We also have a Christmas parade welcoming Santa to town in November. We have a huge "READING CAMELBACK" body mounted on a chevy truck frame that has full sound system, bell, whistle & air "blow down". After the parade, it is parked out in front of our store w/ Santa Claus being visited by about 50 to 100 kids. Free catalogs, candy canes, and running trains makes for great Christmas traditions continuing at Hennings.   I must add one more thing. Our dirt late model race car (we run every Saturday April thru September) is partially sponsored by Lionel. They donate train sets twice a year for our 4th of July race and Hennings Trains night in August. The kids get free catalogs, a free ticket, and the winners and their parents are awarded their train sets in "WINNERS CIRCLE" at half time w/ the car.  Lionel was "THRILLED" w/ the publicity as it is shown on cable TV several times in the next week or two.  This is our 77th year and w/ my two sons, I look  to a great future. Our business is now 50 / 50 internet & brick store. I really think the store owners need to do their "OWN THING", and do not depend too much on the mfg.

" It ain't gonna happen"

Thank you,  Harry

The Train Shoppe of Salt Lake really caters to the youth but also has everything the serious modeler could want.

They get so much business they had to open another store.

Great job Harry! Im not too worried about stores once you get them into them. My concern is driving "new" customers to traditional stores who make internet purchases.

Charlie,

I talked to Tony this morning and the Roundhouse South would participate. Is a great idea and would drive new people in the door. Do you have any feel for Lionel's interest  in such a program?

Mike

I visit a train store in the Seattle area about once a year when I am in the area visiting relatives.  (I live in CA.)  I asked about a discount for the purchase of a Lionel engine.  They offered me a 10% discount if I was an NMRA member.  I showed my NMRA card and got the discount.  (Maybe they didn't expect a Lionel guy to belong to the NMRA.)  All of this shop's prices are full MSRP and I have never seen them have a sale.  I have spent several thousand dollars in this shop over the years.

Maybe dealers could negotiate a discount program with the TCA, NMRA, or local train clubs to drive members to their stores.  In return, the TCA and NMRA would provide free advertising for the participating shops about the discount program on their website and in their publications.  This might have the desired effect of encouraging members in these organizations to shop at the stores and also encourage people to join the TCA, NMRA, etc.  I suspect that TCA and NMRA members spend more money on trains every year than any other group.  It could be a win / win for both the stores and the train organizations.  (I belong to both the NMRA and TCA.)  

NH Joe

I think the 'Free Track' thought is a great idea. It would target just the right people you want to visit your store, new people. Giving away a few pieces of track would definitely be worth the opportunity to create a new valued customer. Yes, some may take the track and never see them again but you are sure to get some that return, and maybe some again and again.

In our local advertising (newspaper, local booklet ads) during the holidays we post a 10% coupon good for any new (in stock) starter set. Not a whole lot of profit left but the goal is to get a set in their hands and hopefully return to add on to it. This has worked pretty good for us.

bum posted:

In my case having a layout proved to be more of a hindrance and expensive.   Too much damage by both children and adults, takes up too much floor space, and too loud.  I found that my store became a baby sitting stop for grandpas and dads waiting for their wives getting their nails done next door, they rarely bought anything and I had to sit there instead of doing work at the other end of the store.   I do keep a small oval test track for just that, testing.  When I had an operating track, parents would leave their kids at the track and go look around, that's when all the damage would occur.  They would stand on set boxes to reach over and grab the trains, put a foot through the front of the box, knock over accessories, try to speed up the train, pull on transformer cords, etc.  I am a one man store and really don't want to go through that again.  I have horror stories about some of these parents and grandparents, can't blame the kids, they only know what they're taught.

 

Respectfully, Nick, it would seem that you should remove some of these temptations, i.e. the items getting damaged.

The items that were broken were part of the layout, locomotive, cars, transformer, accessories, buildings, and standing on my displayed set boxes to reach over onto the layout.  Just today 2 men came in with a little girl being held by one of them.  He put her down and she ran directly to a F3 set that I have on display and started rubbing it.  I asked him to keep an eye on her and a minute later she was grabbing the ornamental horns on it.  She didn't break the horns but this is what happens, I was lucky this time and as usual they left without buying anything.  Part of my problem is my store is just a couple doors away from a family restaurant which does bring in some business but also some problems.

We have been fortunate with our store layout. 12'X9', 3 loops (including a helix) and a test track, lots of operating accessories and dozens of die cast vehicles and almost no problems. We have had this layout (with updates and refreshing) for 17 years and we fire it up when ever there is a kid in the store, or anyone shows any interest. We run DCS and TMCC and we hand the remote to kids and let them run the trains every day. We even have some old I Phones at the ready for them to run the new wifi system. No one has seriously wrecked a train yet (we have wide 054 and 072 curves) and we encourage high speed running which the kids love. Yes, once or twice some low life has stolen a die cast car or small item from the layout, but rarely. We also hold an open house the first Wednesday of every month and encourage people to bring their trains down to run on both the O gauge layout and the HO Layout (yes we have two) because in Florida many people have limited room for layouts since we do not have basements and it gives those without layouts a chance to run trains. The HO layout has DCC and DC operation. We serve refreshments, have raffles and have a great time. Its also a good night for sales!

I cant imagine not having a store layout since many kids that come in have never even seen a toy train let alone get a chance to run one.