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Closed41 replies

I have it down to two. Which would you pick?

Michael HokkanenMichael HokkanenOGR Forum Member
As mentioned in a previous post in which I received much salient advice (thank you) I asked for input on purchasing a great looking scale steamer. At the time I said large but in my search found many smalelr engines with a big look "feel".

I KNOW that I must make up my mind but I would appreciate a little push by way of your opinions.

I have narrowed the search down to the two following choices. I could actually run the ROW engine now while the Lionel would be on display until I get my 0-72 curves up, but that's OK. I can set it on a display stand near the layout and admire it everyday. The choices are;

Right-of-Way Chesapeake and Ohio C&O Berkshire 2-8-4 3-Rail....or the

Lionel 28051 Baltimore and Ohio 2-8-8-4 EM-1 Articulated Locomotive!

Here are features of the Right-of-Way:
•Handcrafted Brass Construction
•Can Motor
•Electronic Reversing Unit
•Operates on 042 Curves
•Sprung Drivers
•Smoke Unit
•Operating Headlight & Back-up Light
•Lighted Number Boards and Markers
•Complete Sound System
•Many Details Added on by Hand
•Locomotive Number 2700
•Firebox Glow from flickering LED Lights

Here are features of the Lionel:
Die Cast Boiler, Frame and Tender
Wireless Tether
Odyssey System Speed Control
Train Master Command Equipped
High Torque Pittman Motor
Articulated Rail Sound 4.0
All 16 Driver Wheels Powered
Fan Driver Smoke Unit
Operating Headlight

Any opinions are appreciated. I am really enjoying the selection process and have communicated with a few OGRer's in the process. Thanks to such a great forum!
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RickORickOOGR Forum Member
Maybe I'm wrong, but that R.O.W. berk looks small compared to those offered by Lionel or Mth, if your interested in a berk I would shop for one of theirs. I would go with the em1, the sound is guaranteed to be far superior and you have the option of command control,on top of the fact you'll have double the locomotive.On a side note, especially in the case of a used loco (some may scream at me now) you are more "likely" to be able to obtain parts if ever need be from the more major O guage players like Lionel and Mth.
LW Lee WillisOGR Forum Member
The EM-1 would be my choice if it was me, but I bet I'd actually be happier with the Berkshire.

I am a sucker for big articulated scale locos that end up being too large to look good running on my layout: they end up being shelf queens. But I keep buying them anyway. Even the biggest non-articulated are a bit large. It is the Berkshires and Hudsons that I end up running all the time.
Gilly@N&WGilly@N&WOGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Hokkanen:

Right-of-Way Chesapeake and Ohio C&O Berkshire 2-8-4 3-Rail
Handcrafted Brass Construction

Here are features of the Lionel:
Odyssey System Speed Control
Train Master Command Equipped


Two factors to consider for each

ROW
Brass can be fragile. No matter how careful I think I am, it very easy to break things on a brass engine.
Conventional operation. The day might come that you may want command control.

Lionel
Speed control and TMCC.

Both have sound, but sight un-seen I'd pick the Lionel...
Lionel

That's my $0.02

Gilly
D500D500OGR Forum Member
I seem to recall chatter about the Lionel EM-1 after it came out that the "072" requirement was
a bit on the nominal side, and that the loco was really wanting a larger curve. Inside wheels were
observed lifting off the track; occasional derailments. I heard this more than once - which I realize does not
make it true.

Anyway, I have no experience with the locos myself, and the owners can debunk or confirm this tale, for sure.
Hope its just hokum.
A audidrivenOGR Forum Member
Michael,

I am in complete agreement with everyone about the EM-1 but the 2 engines aren't really a fair comparison. I collect brass models and can say the ROW lacks the detail compared to even today's die cast models. The ONLY reason I would consider the Berkshire is because it is a rare model, while the EM-1's are listed every week so you could easily acquire both over time if you ever wanted to expand. I know the model you were looking at for the ROW as I also considered it for the scarce factor, but after researching the actual engine 2700 against the model I decided to wait until Sunset 3rd Rail's offering of it.

Do you really desire those particular engines or did you choose them due to immediate availability? Choosing a model for myself is always a tough choice as the offerings are more available than the cash to obtain them, leaving me making some tough decisions at times. I might try your method of recommendations in the future.

Good luck!
jd-trainjd-trainOGR Forum Member
I would buy something that I could run on the layout.

I currently have a O-54 and O-63 double main. Last fall, while most folks were at York, I scored a great deal on a set of SGL brass Reading passenger cars. This set was one of two passenger sets on my dream list. While I have them on display on a siding on the layout, unfortunately I can't run the on my existing curves. While I enjoy looking at them on the siding, I can't wait (hopefully the Spring or Summer) when I can expand the layout and actually run the cars.

For me, its a bummer to have something and not be able to run it.

Jim
FatBoyFatBoyOGR Forum Member
Michael,

If you go with the EM-1, have Weaver do the EOB upgrade. This engine does not come equipped with EOB. I had purchased the 1st issue Bigboy and had them install it. If you plan on running up and downgrade, you will need EOB. These big articulates are heavy and with 15-25 cars in tow going downgrade, EOB definetly helps maintain your set speed. Same as for going upgrade.

Cesar
Michael HokkanenMichael HokkanenOGR Forum Member
quote:
Originally posted by FatBoy:
Michael,

If you go with the EM-1, have Weaver do the EOB upgrade. This engine does not come equipped with EOB. I had purchased the 1st issue Bigboy and had them install it. If you plan on running up and downgrade, you will need EOB. These big articulates are heavy and with 15-25 cars in tow going downgrade, EOB definetly helps maintain your set speed. Same as for going upgrade.

Cesar

Are you talking about Weaver trains in Northumberland, PA? I don't live far from them. They will work on Lionels or are you talking about somebody else? If I did this should I get premeptive work done on the troublesome transmission that I have heard so much about?
FatBoyFatBoyOGR Forum Member
Michael,

Yes, Weaver Model has done 4 upgrades for me. I had EOB installed in my Lionel Bigboy and 3 TMCC\EOB upgrades to MTH PS-2 engines. They all perform flawlessly!

quote:
If I did this should I get premeptive work done on the troublesome transmission that I have heard so much about?


As I recall, he tweaked my transmission and I have not had a problem ever since. I don't exactly remember the nature of the repair.

Speak with Gary if you decide to do this, he does all the upgrades.

Cesar
RickORickOOGR Forum Member
quote:
Originally posted by FatBoy:
Michael,

Yes, Weaver Model has done 4 upgrades for me. I had EOB installed in my Lionel Bigboy and 3 TMCC\EOB upgrades to MTH PS-2 engines. They all perform flawlessly!

quote:
If I did this should I get premeptive work done on the troublesome transmission that I have heard so much about?


As I recall, he tweaked my transmission and I have not had a problem ever since. I don't exactly remember the nature of the repair.

Speak with Gary if you decide to do this, he does all the upgrades.

Cesar



The "transmission problem" was just recently discussed on the forum, nothing to do with the gaerboxes, but rather the universal joint that connects to them. If this is a used EM1 theres a good chance the mod was already done, if I remeber correctly it involves putting a metal pin through the u-joint to prevent it from slipping on the shaft.
PB Peter BowlerOGR Forum Member
I am waiting for Lionel to re-do the EM-1 as a Legacy engine but using the same whistle sound recording as their early EM-1, a real difference maker. It seems like only Third Rail is doing articulateds these days. We do not see many die cast articulated versions over the last several years in o-gauge. Maybe the market is saturated, or maybe the tooling is unavailable.
FatBoyFatBoyOGR Forum Member
quote:
The "transmission problem" was just recently discussed on the forum, nothing to do with the gaerboxes, but rather the universal joint that connects to them. If this is a used EM1 theres a good chance the mod was already done, if I remeber correctly it involves putting a metal pin through the u-joint to prevent it from slipping on the shaft.


RickO, You are correct! Gary at Weaver did mention that and it was corrected by him. Thanks for refreshing my memory!

Cesar
RoyBoyRoyBoyOGR Forum Member MEMORIALIZED MEMBER
I would never choose a brass loco over a diecast loco. The brass locos are just too fussy, IMO.

The two rail guys must have worlds better track work than the three rail guys, because anything built with a brass/two rail philosophy seems to need perfect track work, gentle curves, and seemingly constant attention to screws loosening or parts falling off.

I've had more than a few brass-type locos, including diecast locos made by primarily brass manufacturers and only one of them has been trouble-free.

Brass = bleah! IMO.
LIRR SteamerLIRR SteamerOGR Forum Member
I have the EM-1 as well as the first JLC Challenger. Detail wise, the EM-1 is just a hair below the Challenger. They were made about the same time. A Friend had the 3rd rail brass EM-1 . Being a fabricated engine, The Brass model is a bit finer in detail but not to the extent that it would cause one to turn down the Lionel Version. I thought the Lionel EM-1 compared quite well with the 3rd rail model. The Lionel had TMCC on board so you have that advantage as well.

I had the transmission failure with mine right out of the box when it was new. It was not hauling a train. It was a fairly easy replacement with the new parts from Lionel, about 1/2 hrs work for this novice to do. I thought also that you might be able to fix the drive shaft and coupling with some ACC. Just need to nark the correct distance before you remove it from the loco. I dont think i would use the ACC on this part with it being assembled in the engine.
T techieOGR Forum Member
quote:
Originally posted by Peter Bowler:
I am waiting for Lionel to re-do the EM-1 as a Legacy engine but using the same whistle sound recording as their early EM-1, a real difference maker. It seems like only Third Rail is doing articulateds these days. We do not see many die cast articulated versions over the last several years in o-gauge. Maybe the market is saturated, or maybe the tooling is unavailable.

Maybe the economy's in the tank.
jd-trainjd-trainOGR Forum Member
quote:
Originally posted by RoyBoy:
I would never choose a brass loco over a diecast loco. The brass locos are just too fussy, IMO.

The two rail guys must have worlds better track work than the three rail guys, because anything built with a brass/two rail philosophy seems to need perfect track work, gentle curves, and seemingly constant attention to screws loosening or parts falling off.

I've had more than a few brass-type locos, including diecast locos made by primarily brass manufacturers and only one of them has been trouble-free.

Brass = bleah! IMO.


While you are intitled to your own opinion, some of the best engines I have seen have been made of brass. 3rd Rail/Sunset makes beautiful models that have a great reputation for reliability. Same for Weaver.

My brass SGL Reading G3 is my favorite engine. Prototypically correct and a great runner.

Jim
Michael HokkanenMichael HokkanenOGR Forum Member
quote:
Originally posted by LIRR Steamer:
I thought also that you might be able to fix the drive shaft and coupling with some ACC. Just need to nark the correct distance before you remove it from the loco. I dont think i would use the ACC on this part with it being assembled in the engine.


Yikes, I realy don't know what you are saying here. Sorry. ACC?
LIRR SteamerLIRR SteamerOGR Forum Member
Mike

I was thinking that in the case where the coupling was loose on the drive shaft. you could remove the drive shaft from the engine and use a krazy glue like product for example ZAP to glue the coupling to the shaft and then reinstall the drive shaft. You also could use a pin through the coupling and shaft to hold the coupling in its proper place. I was fortunate to be able to obtain from Lionel a modified shaft they had made for these engines. They may or may not have these modified shafts still in their parts inventory.

The point is that those who have or bought the engine later on after its release and experienced the Transmission problem were able to fix it so it becomes a fine running model.
S SasquatchOGR Forum Member
Mike,I have 2 of these engines and fixed both of the drives on these. It is real easy, and if you want contact me through my profile and you can call me and I will walk you through it.

Here are a few photos of what I did to fix the problem.


the first photo shows the set screw already installed,there are 2 dimples in the sleave that conects the motor drive shaft to the gear box drive shaft. I drilled a hole for a #4 tap then I tapped the hole. I slid the sleave back on put a touch of CA glue and tightened the screw. I have at least 100 hours on both of my EM-1's and have yet to have a problem. BF





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