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installing command in a 3rd Rail Niagara

Engineer-JoeEngineer-JoeOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBER

So ....as if I don't have enough to do right now.... someone posts their brand new MTH Niagara video here on the forum. Trouble for me was there was no 2 rail model released.

  I feel fortunate that while I was still in the market, along came an older 3rd Rail Sunset version in 2 rail. So I grabbed it and put her on the shelf for the future when I got more time. I had considered waiting for a used MTH model, and having Joe F 2 rail it for me. Sometimes you just walk into something. So seeing that video put her up higher on my to do list.

 I had her up on the bench as I'm convinced that the drive axle is slightly out of quarter. The drive train gets tight as the side rods get in a certain position and you can actually see on one side, that the drive axle is not in line with the rest. It tightens the side rods and you can feel them bind. It is so slight that the engine actually runs OK. I can feel it when I turn the flywheel by hand though. There is just enough slop in everything to allow this action. With 2 AA batteries driving the motor, you can see her struggle a bit. It is so minor I may just expand a side rod hole?

 Anyways back to my story. She comes apart with just three screws! 2 under the cab and 1 more at the front of the boiler. I have to see how hard it will be to install sound and smoke. So while I have her apart, I can't resist to get started.

 First, I have to fabricate a mount for the smoke unit. An old window blind bracket is sitting here and looks like it can work. The steel is just right as it bends by hand and cuts easier than a spare MTH bracket from a RK model. There is a extra hole right at the bottom front of the boiler so that's where I'll screw the bracket to.

 Bam, before I know it it's ten o'clock and I have to quit. Oh well it's a start. I just laid the smoke unit inside to check for the right fit. The MTH smoke unit's exhaust nozzle just happens to be the perfect fit inside of the boiler!

 More posts to come when I get the bug to work on her. I posted here just incase anyone wants to see what I do. It ain't pretty. It does work!

 

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Engineer-JoeEngineer-JoeOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBER

I got some more done on the engine. No wonder the headlight didn't work for the previous owner. There wasn't any.

 I decided to shove a piece of insulation in front of the smoke unit. The Tach reader's spacing is just a guess for now until I install a tape. The tether/harness is always fun to install on an engine that never had one. I believe there's just enough space for it! I normally test stuff with the boiler off. I'm either getting brave or foolish?

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Last edited by Engineer-Joe
Engineer-JoeEngineer-JoeOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBER

Anytime. I'm not bragging. I just thought it might be interesting for guys that haven't been inside one. I want to reply on that post about installing Legacy into a Kohls. I haven't touched a legacy yet and I may never get to touch a Kohls!

 I keep staring at that Sunset J class in the for sale post. I got so much stuff in this year that I need to stop. I can't possible run it all. I'm going to give it one heck of a try!

G GGGOGR Forum Member

Nice Joe.  I will mail harness out today.  Few tips.  Make sure solder points on top of smoke unit do not contact shell.  Same with placement of tach reader and the rear harness mount.  Should not be an issue, but you do not want any shorts to chassis.

 

That insulation really isn't necessary on headlight.

 

How does the smoke unit cup fit into the stack?  If loose I usually press on a piece of brass stock to enhance the smoke stack fit,  Also helps with holding smoke unit into shell.

 

11/64 or 3/8 depending on brass cup of standard smoke unit.

 

He is picture of one added into J. G

 

 

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Engineer-JoeEngineer-JoeOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBER

Thanks again G! I missed that the harness will hit the rear porch.

This smoke unit fits better. The smoke unit has a slight gap. I probably should have just put some caulk or glue around it, maybe even tape?

I had guessed it was good. First time I added fluid, I noticed it still goes down where I don't want it to.

I insulated around the harness plug with black electrical tape. The smoke unit doesn't touch the way it's mounted. I should have taped it for security.

 I never insulated the headlight from the smoke unit before, so I don't know why I did it this time? It will probably just wick up fluid.

 I guessed on the tach reader's gap and it's larger than a dime right now. I may just slip that extra piece of thin plastic out if it acts up. I also guessed on the tach tape which is very large for now.

L lightningstripeOGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
  1. Joe,  Before you enlarge any siderod holes, might I suggest you check all the drivers for proper quartering. I have a 3rd rail Niagara which I picked up here on the 'for sale' forum which had the #1 driver out of quarter. I don't think the previous owner ever tried to run it as it would only move about an inch and then bind. I used a NWSL quartering tool to fix the driver and now the locomotive is a very smooth runner.   Earl G.
L lightningstripeOGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER

Joe,  For your information in case you need it, the 'Quarterer III" is NWSL tool  # 67-4.  You will also need NWSL tool # 6722-4, " 5.0 mm Axle Carrier Plate". This holds the axle 90 degrees to the wheel when pressing the wheel on. The NWSL "Puller III" is tool # 65-4. The tools are well built and come with easy to follow instructions.   Earl G.  

N NortonOGR Forum Member
Originally Posted by lightningstripe:

Joe,  For your information in case you need it, the 'Quarterer III" is NWSL tool  # 67-4.  You will also need NWSL tool # 6722-4, " 5.0 mm Axle Carrier Plate". This holds the axle 90 degrees to the wheel when pressing the wheel on. The NWSL "Puller III" is tool # 65-4. The tools are well built and come with easy to follow instructions.   Earl G.  

I was checking their website looking at these. I take it the Axle Carrier Plates are not included with the basic tool?

 

Pete

Engineer-JoeEngineer-JoeOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBER

Thank you Ralph. These engines can be frustrating if rushed.

 I forgot that I had to move the boiler's wires down on the side of the motor. They didn't fit up top of the motor. I attached a spade terminal on a motor screw. I then slide a zip tie thru it and held the wires straight up so they don't hit the belt and are routed much better. I forgot to take that picture before assembling it.

Engineer-JoeEngineer-JoeOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBER
Originally Posted by Norton:

Joe, maybe I missed it. Did you use a PS2 or PS3 kit for this?

 

Pete

It started as a PS2 steam upgrade kit. I swapped the board out for an older 1 meg used board when I looked at the sound set requirements.

 I had already begun installing the kit into a Weaver steam engine when I bought the Niagara. So I left the speaker and board in the tender and borrowed all the rest! Sometimes a new engine gets all my attention.

Engineer-JoeEngineer-JoeOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBER

I was running some engines tonight after they all were moved out for construction. I saw this engine and couldn't remember where I left off?

(This one and the Williams challenger I converted both had shorts, but I can't remember what exactly.)

I put it on the tracks running with the MTH WIFI app and she ran great. I thought she had shorted out before?

 I'm thinking that the polarity switch is defective. I'm pretty sure it is wired correctly. I need to check with my meter later. I finally did remember that the brass plate between the engine and tender provided another short or at least was sparking. I had applied black tape to the bottom.

  That's what I get for keeping the stock wiring scheme. There's a reason newer MTH steamers aren't wired like the older stuff. Back then the tender used to pick up the opposite rail of the engine, and that was it. I still add wipers to go over dead frogs and problem areas on my upgrades. Some larger tenders will rock backing up slowly into my yards and the engine will lose power just from that. I should power up the frogs. The stock 2 rail MTH engines go over it fine. Even the tiny 0-4-0 I bought.

 I was happy the engine ran great and did not feel like opening her up or creating problems. Maybe there's not even a problem with the switch? I didn't have the guts to throw it. When stuff is good, just run. My memory is shot. That keeps my interest in toy trains higher!

Here's an older video until I make a new one....

Last edited by Engineer-Joe
Engineer-JoeEngineer-JoeOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBER

Thank you!

Here's the extended start up sounds. They play for so much longer than some others, that I thought they were done. They kept playing so I had to make another video of them (pt2). It takes me an hour to upload this long of a video to utube.

I didn't remember I had shut off the smoke so I turned it on while taping.

I thought they were done and it caught me off guard. I turned the camera back on and missed a small portion of the same start-up sounds.

Last edited by Engineer-Joe

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