K-line diesel locomotive

I bought a K Line GP 7 to run on o27 Marx track. Have had no problems, goes through Marx switches smoothly and pull string of cars without hesitation. 

The early K-Line E8's came either as conventional or with TMCC so you need to check which version you are buying. The "B" unit also had motors so an ABA configuration could have 6 motors. The major issue with their early diesels was with jack-rabbit starts and running at non-prototypical speeds. I tamed my K-Lines with some electronic circuitry to slow them down, while others would do the same by putting the motors in a series configuration.

They are decent looking engines but not my favorite as far as day-to-day operations. They all now sit on a shelf.

I have several of the Alcos and MP15s. They run great and are simple and reliable. Something to keep in mind, especially with the more expensive K-Line locos, is parts availability. There are still some parts out there and they aren't expensive, but they aren't making parts anymore. Dropping a few hundred bucks to end up with a shelf queen is not fun. I am dealing with this issue with a set of Weaver E8s. Another company that is out of business. Not trying to discourage you, just trying to help you see the big picture.

I have several F3 sets. good runners and not that expensive. One reason for having several is parts availability, if it ever comes to that.

If the price is right and it's something you want, enjoy them!

ERR upgrades are also a reasonable future "fix" if necessary

@Mike D posted:

I have several of the Alcos and MP15s. They run great and are simple and reliable. Something to keep in mind, especially with the more expensive K-Line locos, is parts availability. There are still some parts out there and they aren't expensive, but they aren't making parts anymore. Dropping a few hundred bucks to end up with a shelf queen is not fun. I am dealing with this issue with a set of Weaver E8s. Another company that is out of business. Not trying to discourage you, just trying to help you see the big picture.

Early MTH E8s are very close if not identical to the Weaver E8s if its a mechanical part you need. Motors differ but shells and frames are the same.

Pete

@msp  Check out my post on a K-Line F3 set   I run DCS but did end up with an early Lionel Command Base to run it.   

I find the engineering a bit unfriendly, compared to Lionel or MTH.

Would you expand on unfriendly? 

Bob

Our club uses a L-line diesel during our public run days. It just keeps on running and running...

@YakimaMarxist posted:

Would you expand on unfriendly?

Bob

Thank you. My sentiments exactly.

Define "unfriendly".

Mike

In my post above, I was specifically addressing the issues associated with the K-Line E8. On the other hand, my K-Line TMCC A5 0-4-0, which blows perfect smoke rings, is one of my all-time favorite engines.

K-Line made a lot of great stuff, and at a great price but, like anything else, some of their products were better than others. It is challenging to make a fact-based, generalized statement about any of the train companies other than, maybe, different product lines target different price categories and different levels of performance. It is much easier and accurate to evaluate and discuss a specific product model.

Emotionally, though, I liked K-Line!

I am a fan of my K-Line E8s and F7s. Decent detail and all run well. My NYC and UP E8s had come with TMCC and I have upgraded  both to ERR Cruise. The NYC AAs have two Cruise Ms driven by a single R2LC. The 6 motor UP ABA is also driven my a single ERR Cruise M.

Pete

Hmmm... thanks for all the responses.  I am a plug and play guy and don't really want to have to worry about parts etc or re-engineering anything...

to the point of specific product....

This is a K-Line K28901H Union Pacific E8 ABA Diesel Locomotive Set. Features include vertical drive, dual motors with flywheels, 8-wheel drive, digital horn or RealSounds, die-cast trucks and wheels, quadra-grip, motorized rotating roof fans, brass air filter with relief valve, and metal chassis.

@msp posted:

to the point of specific product....

This is a K-Line K28901H Union Pacific E8 ABA Diesel Locomotive Set. Features include vertical drive, dual motors with flywheels, 8-wheel drive, digital horn or RealSounds, die-cast trucks and wheels, quadra-grip, motorized rotating roof fans, brass air filter with relief valve, and metal chassis.

That engine uses all Lionel electronics. The parts are readily available. The same cannot be said of some Lionel locomotives.

Pete

@msp posted:

Hmmm... thanks for all the responses.  I am a plug and play guy and don't really want to have to worry about parts etc or re-engineering anything...

@msp,

Then you'll be very limited in what you can buy and be happy with.  This is not, for the most part, a plug and play hobby.  Never has been never will be.

Even in the glory days of the 1950's putting together a layout took a great deal of fiddling.  It still does to this day.

Likewise keeping things running requires changing worn or inoperable parts, and more tinkering.  Always has, always will.

The good news is that you can usually find someone to make the situation plug and play for you, by handling the headaches that you're not comfortable with.  There are many such people on this forum.

Parts for anything will eventually get hard to find, unless new sources (usually third party) come through.  We've been lucky to have this happen for about 80 years now with mechanical and electrical stuff.

It will eventually start happening with electronics as well.

No need to worry.  The parts usually find a way to be there when they're needed most.  Ask folks like those at Hennings, and at least ten other good places.

As it has aged our hobby has come to be driven by the old and the new, together and simultaneously, running side by side.  It's a big part of why this hobby is special when compared to others.

Let's hope it continues.

Mike

@msp posted:

to the point of specific product....

This is a K-Line K28901H Union Pacific E8 ABA Diesel Locomotive Set.

I have the version of this set (UP engines 949, 950 and 951) with TMCC along with 6 cars. It is a visually appealing set with plenty of power.  My set does not have cruise control. Please search through this forum archive for comments on these types of early ABA K-lines. You may see comments on speed control and overheating issues.   

okay this is TMCC equipped...I am leaning that way.....

@msp posted:

okay this is TMCC equipped...I am leaning that way.....

The K-Line E8 with the H suffix is conventional. The TMCC version has an S suffix.

It was offered both ways.

Pete

interesting the seller is telling me TMCC equipped......

picture does show cable coming out of back....

@msp posted:

interesting the seller is telling me TMCC equipped......

They can be upgraded. Just about any engine can be upgraded to just about any Command system.

Pete

@Bruce Brown posted:

The early K-Line E8's came either as conventional or with TMCC so you need to check which version you are buying. The "B" unit also had motors so an ABA configuration could have 6 motors. The major issue with their early diesels was with jack-rabbit starts and running at non-prototypical speeds. I tamed my K-Lines with some electronic circuitry to slow them down, while others would do the same by putting the motors in a series configuration.

They are decent looking engines but not my favorite as far as day-to-day operations. They all now sit on a shelf.

Umm, actually early kLine E8's had their own k-Line sound. Later ones became equipped with TMCC. Case in point are the two runs of PRR scale E8's. First run had glossy tuscan paint single stripe big letters and that had the Kline sound. The second run had the subdued Tuscan PRR 5 stripe paint scheme.

Note the PRR DID NOT purchase E8B units, only E7B units.

@Norton posted:

I am a fan of my K-Line E8s and F7s. Decent detail and all run well. My NYC and UP E8s had come with TMCC and I have upgraded  both to ERR Cruise. The NYC AAs have two Cruise Ms driven by a single R2LC. The 6 motor UP ABA is also driven my a single ERR Cruise M.

Pete

I have the K28901S Union Pacific E8 ABA with TMCC and 6 motors that I might want to add ERR Cruise & have a couple questions. Why two Cruise Ms with the NYC AA set but only a single Cruise M with the UP ABA set? Do the motors in the UP draw less current?

@Mike C posted:

I have the K28901S Union Pacific E8 ABA with TMCC and 6 motors that I might want to add ERR Cruise & have a couple questions. Why two Cruise Ms with the NYC AA set but only a single Cruise M with the UP ABA set? Do the motors in the UP draw less current?

The Cruise Commander M, has a 8A peak current rating, so two medium-sized can motors wired in parallel is the maximum prudent load.

@Mike C posted:

I have the K28901S Union Pacific E8 ABA with TMCC and 6 motors that I might want to add ERR Cruise & have a couple questions. Why two Cruise Ms with the NYC AA set but only a single Cruise M with the UP ABA set? Do the motors in the UP draw less current?

I like to experiment. Two Cruise Ms required extensive rewiring as I am only using a single R2LC in the NYC engine. K-Line was using a single DCDR to drive 6 motors in the UP engine. Rather than using a Cruise Commander I tried just the single Cruise M with the bridge removed and mounted to the frame. 6 motors running light only draw a bit over 1.5 amp total. i would not recomend this setup unless you like to take chances. Someday I may add individual motor drivers for each unit.

Note actual motor draw is the difference between max current and the quiescent current at startup.

Pete

FWIW, I made a buffer for the PWM signals to drive multiple motor drivers a while back because I was having trouble driving two CC-M modules with the R2LC output.  The opto-couplers on the two loaded down the R2LC too much to function.  I'm sure this would probably drive three of them as well.

<------------------------------- Click on Graphic to Expand ------------------------------->

No doubt a buffer would be needed to drive three CCMs. I was pleasantly surprised that I was able to drive two CCMs without a buffer so I stopped there. If it ain’t broke…..

One other note, I first tried using a CCM plus a Cruise Commander in each of the two trailing UP E8s. What I noted was total current draw was actually three times vs using a single driver for all 6 motors. I attribute that to each engine getting slightly different voltages and fighting each other. Maybe if cruise was turned off this wouldn’t happen.

My Weaver Burlington E8s are driven with a single Cruise Commander with no problem and have a low current draw barely over what a single engine draws.

Pete

@Mike D posted:

I have several of the Alcos and MP15s. They run great and are simple and reliable. Something to keep in mind, especially with the more expensive K-Line locos, is parts availability. There are still some parts out there and they aren't expensive, but they aren't making parts anymore. Dropping a few hundred bucks to end up with a shelf queen is not fun. I am dealing with this issue with a set of Weaver E8s. Another company that is out of business. Not trying to discourage you, just trying to help you see the big picture.

What's wrong with your Weaver E8's? You should be able to get power train parts from MTH and now Atlas O. They are the same locomotive with a bit more detail.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

FWIW, I made a buffer for the PWM signals to drive multiple motor drivers a while back because I was having trouble driving two CC-M modules with the R2LC output.  The opto-couplers on the two loaded down the R2LC too much to function.  I'm sure this would probably drive three of them as well.

<------------------------------- Click on Graphic to Expand ------------------------------->

John with you permission I would like to try to build one of these.

@prrhorseshoecurve posted:

What's wrong with your Weaver E8's? You should be able to get power train parts from MTH and now Atlas O. They are the same locomotive with a bit more detail.

Bad gear in one of the trucks. I am going to send it to Frank Timko for repair.

Parts compatibility is sometimes an issue with items that have been sold to other manufacturers. I have a few of the Weaver and MTH C-628/630's and doing a shell swap wasn't just a simple swap. MTH made some changes when they acquired that loco. I had to do some mods and leave some screws out IIRC. I wouldn't bank on everything staying the same on the E's either.

@Mike D posted:

Bad gear in one of the trucks. I am going to send it to Frank Timko for repair.

Parts compatibility is sometimes an issue with items that have been sold to other manufacturers. I have a few of the Weaver and MTH C-628/630's and doing a shell swap wasn't just a simple swap. MTH made some changes when they acquired that loco. I had to do some mods and leave some screws out IIRC. I wouldn't bank on everything staying the same on the E's either.

Mike D,

Frank Timko passed away recently.

Jim

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv_Wl1BPUaw <p>

We have a kline tank steam engine with a throaty sounding chuff that is among our favorite engines. Great smoker, TMCC with railsounds, can run fast or slow. We find many of their steam engines a great deal, a lot of fun running, less so with the kline diesels.

@ThatGuy posted:

John with you permission I would like to try to build one of these.

No problem, here's the data you need to build it, schematic, BOM, Assy drawing, and of course, the Gerber files.

I own several K-Line locomotives including a set of E8s.  The quality varies based on the model and when it was built, but my E8s were always good runners.  No complaints. 

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

No problem, here's the data you need to build it, schematic, BOM, Assy drawing, and of course, the Gerber files.

Thank you very much.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

No problem, here's the data you need to build it, schematic, BOM, Assy drawing, and of course, the Gerber files.

I'm a complete newb (and learning more every day) - where would this fit in, in the grand scheme of things?  Somewhere between the TMCC board and the motors? 

PWM signals?  Pulse Width Modulation?

Am I guessing correctly here?

@Homey B posted:

I'm a complete newb (and learning more every day) - where would this fit in, in the grand scheme of things?  Somewhere between the TMCC board and the motors?

PWM signals?  Pulse Width Modulation?

Am I guessing correctly here?

The R2LC outputs a pair of PWM signals to the motor driver for direction and speed.  However, if you want to drive two or more motor driver boards from one R2LC, the R2LC doesn't have enough drive current.  This board uses a high current buffer to allow you to parallel two (or more) motor drivers to one R2LC.

This issue comes into play if you want to have an A-A consist with two separate motor drivers, but you'd like to have one "master" to keep things in sync all the time.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

This issue comes into play if you want to have an A-A consist with two separate motor drivers, but you'd like to have one "master" to keep things in sync all the time.

OK, so instead of making a "Train" with two or more "Engines" in it, you're trying to link all of the motors in all of the units as a single "Engine".  Got it. Now, how would you best tether the two units together?  There's a 4-wire option and make it look like a real life MU configuration.  Or can you send the signals between the "master" locomotive and the "slave" with some other (wireless?) technology?

Is this the way that we build a dual-motor locomotive?  Or are the electronics beefy enough for the two motors in parallel?  Serial?

Again, thanks for putting up with these simple (but clarifying to me) questions.  I hope to be able to pay it forward some day.

@Jim Sandman posted:

Mike D,

Frank Timko passed away recently.

Jim

Sorry to hear about that.