K-Line Operating Boxcar/Remote Issue

From what I can see, you are doing everything correctly.  Some connection or the board in the car must have an issue.

@RON ARNDT 091718 posted:

From what I can see, you are doing everything correctly.  Some connection or the board in the car must have an issue.

Thank you. Do you know of anyone who does these types of repairs? 

Matching dip.switches in remote and device is SOP., Check the remote battery voltage. Close to voltage, is low. New batteries have a tad more than the rating . e.g . 3v will have 3.2v-3.4v new.

LED infrared remotes can be seen lighting up with a plain old digital video camera/phone.  RF is trickier.

When running electronics that haven't run in a while, you might want to power them up alone for 30 seconds before using any commands etc.. give it a chance to charge a few empty things etc. 

Generic RC ciruit relays & key fobs can be found for cheap on eBay and swapped in. 

If you run command one of those boards can work it as well.

Take.the shell off and get real close with the remote. Any change?

@Adriatic posted:

Matching dip.switches in remote and device is SOP., Check the remote battery voltage. Close to voltage, is low. New batteries have a tad more than the rating . e.g . 3v will have 3.2v-3.4v new.

LED infrared remotes can be seen lighting up with a plain old digital video camera/phone.  RF is trickier.

When running electronics that haven't run in a while, you might want to power them up alone for 30 seconds before using any commands etc.. give it a chance to charge a few empty things etc. 

Generic RC ciruit relays & key fobs can be found for cheap on eBay and swapped in. 

If you run command one of those boards can work it as well.

Take.the shell off and get real close with the remote. Any change?

No change close to the car. 

Lift plugs just a hair, reseat them.

Why right to a 20v max? That's near the command board limits. Have to hope it errs conservatively. 18v is safer and lower works too. Hopefully that isn't the issue.

Is there anything else you run with the remote? (that isnt the same remote I recall... A universal replacement or later version there.) Have the original to confirm car works?

Try another dip& channel.

That looks like a lot of dips for just a remote and "A1". 

Hi,

I've attached the instructions (just in case) and I'd suggest moving the car to a UCS section, set track power to 14v and try the non-RF remote option just to check that the car is functional.  If it works, then the issue is likely with the RF side.  If it does not work then the issue is likely power or the control/motor circuit.  Look for a good place to probe and confirm that power is getting though the pick-up assembly to the boards.  A broken wire, ground straps not touching the axles or Teflon lube on the roller will all prevent power from reaching the boards.

S/F Mike

I looked for "new" ways of scanning for RF hoping for something cheap and easy.  It wasn't real cheap for the first $50-$80 for a anti-spy electronic bug & camera finder.  Another option are key fob scanners, something a new age locksmith or dealer might use. Likely more pricey to own, but you might get someone to see if you have RF transmission on the remote for just a few bucks considering its not a "key" by function.

Following wires & traces for a bit is a viable option too.

@Mike Summerville posted:

Hi,

I've attached the instructions (just in case) and I'd suggest moving the car to a UCS section, set track power to 14v and try the non-RF remote option just to check that the car is functional.  If it works, then the issue is likely with the RF side.  If it does not work then the issue is likely power or the control/motor circuit.  Look for a good place to probe and confirm that power is getting though the pick-up assembly to the boards.  A broken wire, ground straps not touching the axles or Teflon lube on the roller will all prevent power from reaching the boards.

S/F Mike

Thank you.  What is a UCS track?  Does Atlas make this?  That's the kind of track that I use.

Hi John,

It is an "Uncouple/Unload remote Control Section".  Not sure if Atlas makes one or not with the power rails in addition to the uncoupling magnet.  You should be able to borrow one just to check out the operation of the car (or get one for this and future testing efforts!)  They run about $15 with controller on eBay... 

S/F Mike

The uncoupling track section is basically an electro-magnet (think high-school science experiment wrapping wire around a nail).  If you have a strong refrigerator magnet or the like, try positioning it under the center of the car when on powered track.  My guess is that would also activate the car for the matter at hand.

@Adriatic posted:

 

I looked for "new" ways of scanning for RF hoping for something cheap and easy.  It wasn't real cheap for the first $50-$80 for a anti-spy electronic bug & camera finder.

 

Akin to the free digital camera IR remote detector, a cheap way to detect RF is a DIY RF probe (google it) which at its core is simply a 5-cent diode and 5-cent capacitor.  The remote is undoubtedly sending intermittent RF bursts...maybe a few times per second when a button is pressed.  With an RF probe, the meter will hop up and down on each burst which at least indicates RF energy going out.  However, I get the impression John is not inclined to go down this route (?).

In general I'm curious how this is resolved.  After two-way-shipping cost and labor/materials for a professional repair, I'd think the economics might be questionable.  If John has the time/interest to photograph the electronics and make some basic voltmeter measurements, I think we could at least increase the community-knowledge for the greater good and such. 

@stan2004 posted:

The uncoupling track section is basically an electro-magnet (think high-school science experiment wrapping wire around a nail).  If you have a strong refrigerator magnet or the like, try positioning it under the center of the car when on powered track.  My guess is that would also activate the car for the matter at hand.

 

Oh okay. I have one of these on my layout. The car doesn’t have a plunger. Should it still active it? 

Not sure what you mean by "plunger" but per the instructions, the center of the car is positioned over the electro-magnet.

@stan2004 posted:

Not sure what you mean by "plunger" but per the instructions, the center of the car is positioned over the electro-magnet.

Sounds good, I’ll give it a try thank you! Some of my operating cars have a plunger in the middle to put right over the magnet to operate. 

RF probes Ive used didn't always pan out well on other equipment when I traveled. Success kinda depended on what was used by other techs, and equipment varied and needed to stay on each site really.   I guess accuracy isn't really going to be important for a go or no go look at it anyhow, and I was looking for just that, stand alone off or on detection.  I think I dismissed probes at first because of the accuracy issues needing tuning specific to the equipment used... it's been a long time since I was crawling into rf controllers too. My memory some days, isn't what it was even a few years ago. (not so much mistake prone as total blanks for a while)

@John Ptak posted:

Sounds good, I’ll give it a try thank you! Some of my operating cars have a plunger in the middle to put right over the magnet to operate. 

We also describe them as "thumb tacks", but it's normally a reference to the uncouplers... "actuator" is nicely generic to describe with too

You most likely will not find a "Plunger / Thumb Tack".  I believe you need to center the rectangular box on the underside of the box car with the electromagnet on uncoupling track.  See red arrow pointing to box.

Thanks all for your help. The car works on the uncoupling track, so I will just use that, instead of trying to worry about the remote. 

You might try to fiddle with the remote and other RC items in the same bandwidth.  It may not work every fuction , you really only need one reaction from say an RC car to say the transmitter is ok for other cars and that car receiver is bad (or try a few rc radios on the car). (I run a Lionel/Scientific G engine with an cheapo RC PT Cruiser radio's steering for fwd rev... Garage sale item, I didn't operate it remotely. I was screwing with the other toy and the train suddenly sprang into revers unexpectedly. It took a few minutes to realize it had a receiver in it too

These operating K-Line / K-line by Lionel are the best when working properly.  The remote allows the car to operate any where on the layout without the need for the UCS (Uncoupling Track Section).  I have several of them, including the dump cars. Caution:  If you look to purchase any of the log dump cars, stay clear of the Pennsylvania Log Dump Car K713-1891 as it has a serious "Zinc Pest" issue.  I purchased three of the before I realized the issue, the frames all crumbled on all of them! 

Williams by Bachman is also offering these operating cars, but you must realize that the K-line / K-Line by Lionel remotes are NOT compatible with the Williams cars and the Williams Remote is NOT compatible with the K-Line / K-Line by Lionel cars.  The two remotes work on different frequencies. 

Lionel does have available the RECEIVER/CONTROL PCB-OPER.BC for $28.  I am not sure, but there may be some soldering to do in order to replace the board.