K-Line Scale Knuckle Couplers

Probably Kadee 804 (if plastic) or 805 (if metal). 

The scale K-Line couplers are Kadee 805 clones. I have a couple sets and they work just as well, and are interchangeable. 

I figured I would latch on the an old post to ask this as it seems similar.

I just purchased 6 used Kline coal hoppers. The ad said they have "Scale" couplers. Will there be a problem operating these on my layout with MTH Railking and Lionel lionchief plus engines on o31 curves?

Not sure the difference between scale couplers and standard ogauge couplers. I tried to do some research but not finding much that makes sense to me.

Thanks

Brad

You won’t know till you try on 031. I’m guessing with the cars short length they might work. Yes the coupler is more scale in size. The big difference is you are going from stock couplers that mount on the truck itself. To couplers that are body mounted and move with the car itself. You can cheat a bit and file back the Kadee coupler box to allow the coupler to pivot more. The biggest obstacle is the car bodies themselves touching as the Kadee’s are going to couple the cars much closer together.
If the cars track fine on there own on your curves.  You may want to create a couple of transition cars. These would have a body mounted Kadee on one end and a stock truck mounted coupler at the other. It would be best to stick with a short car such as a coal hopper. The Weaver cars are probably by far the easiest to add a Kadee to. Certain cars tend to derail with body mounted and opposing truck mounted couplers.

An illustration to go with Dave’s excellent explanation. This is a Kadee 745:

Thank you for the information. Will a scale coupler line up with a ogauge coupler? If the scale coupler is mounted on the body, would it not sit higher?

Rich, I had to look hard to realize you picture is a model and not the real thing.

@romiller49 posted:

Rich, I had to look hard to realize you picture is a model and not the real thing.

Me too. It took a couple of beats, so it's impressive.

"No - wait - those steps are too thick and that is not a standard coupler...it's a model."

A good model too, with the right rust tone on the coupler, and natural sunlight. Natural sunlight can bring out the bad in a bad model and the good in a good one.

I also have K-Line hoppers with their “scale” coupler. I have had no problems coupling them to Lionel and MTH. I have never needed a transition car. I may just be lucky (doubt it!), suggest you give it a try before modifying a car into a transitional.

@Trainmstr posted:

I also have K-Line hoppers with their “scale” coupler. I have had no problems coupling them to Lionel and MTH. I have never needed a transition car. I may just be lucky (doubt it!), suggest you give it a try before modifying a car into a transitional.

Thanks Trainmstr. Are you referring to use on o31 curves?

Thanks,

Brad

I wish Kadee couplers would become standard.

@harley rider posted:

I wish Kadee couplers would become standard.

Not a chance! The vast majority of 3-Railers just LOVE those electro-couplers on their locomotives, and having to bash into cars to couple-up doesn't seem to bother them in the slightest.

Brad, when converting to Kadee’s most everyone invests or makes up a height gauge  to insure they all line up height wise to one another. You pretty much are setting a standard. Given their scale size this is kind of critical. There are plenty of methods and shims can be purchased to fine tune the height.
Generally they tend to ride pretty level to the top of a standard 3 rail coupler. The Kadee can always be moved lower with longer screws and shims. The truck mount is pretty much what it is.

Don’t give up on your cars. Never having done a K-Line car. I’m not sure of what was removed from the stock truck. I’m guessing the stock couplers weren’t included and it’s probably not feasible to buy new trucks with couplers mounted. You might find someone that wants to go the Kadee route and exchange parts.

@Dave_C posted:

Brad, when converting to Kadee’s most everyone invests or makes up a height gauge  to insure they all line up height wise to one another. You pretty much are setting a standard. Given their scale size this is kind of critical. There are plenty of methods and shims can be purchased to fine tune the height.
Generally they tend to ride pretty level to the top of a standard 3 rail coupler. The Kadee can always be moved lower with longer screws and shims. The truck mount is pretty much what it is.

Don’t give up on your cars. Never having done a K-Line car. I’m not sure of what was removed from the stock truck. I’m guessing the stock couplers weren’t included and it’s probably not feasible to buy new trucks with couplers mounted. You might find someone that wants to go the Kadee route and exchange parts.

Thanks Dave C. I should get them next week. I'll update once I get them. I'm hoping they will work as is. It's a 6 car coal hopper set. They look practically new with boxes. $80 shipped. Will get my dremel kit out before I buy new trucks 😄.

Kind of surprised they don't make some type of coupler extension adapters for situations like this.

Brad

I use 036 as a minimum curve, can’t say they will work with no issues on 031.

@Dave_C posted:

Brad, when converting to Kadee’s most everyone invests or makes up a height gauge  to insure they all line up height wise to one another. You pretty much are setting a standard. Given their scale size this is kind of critical. There are plenty of methods and shims can be purchased to fine tune the height.
Generally they tend to ride pretty level to the top of a standard 3 rail coupler. The Kadee can always be moved lower with longer screws and shims. The truck mount is pretty much what it is.

Don’t give up on your cars. Never having done a K-Line car. I’m not sure of what was removed from the stock truck. I’m guessing the stock couplers weren’t included and it’s probably not feasible to buy new trucks with couplers mounted. You might find someone that wants to go the Kadee route and exchange parts.

@B rad posted:

Thanks Dave C. I should get them next week. I'll update once I get them. I'm hoping they will work as is. It's a 6 car coal hopper set. They look practically new with boxes. $80 shipped. Will get my dremel kit out before I buy new trucks 😄.

Kind of surprised they don't make some type of coupler extension adapters for situations like this.

Brad

UPDATE** So I received my Kline coal hopper set and together the scale couplers work wonderfully. The part number is K622-1232A. The date on the box is 2007. Looks like they were first offered in 2005.

The only issue is the first hopper behind the locomotive. I tried one of my diesels and it barely worked in one direction but not the other without the hopper derailing. When I tried it with one of my steam engines it wasn't even close to working. I removed the scale coupler to file out some of the housing like Dave C.  mentioned, but the housing broke into pieces when I took it apart. The plastic housing appeared to be dry rotted even though the cars look brand new. Not sure that would have helped enough anyway.

I'm thinking now the best thing to do is to replace the forward truck with one with a coupler. I had no idea that many different trucks were out there. Assumed they were pretty universal but that is not the case. I found what appears to be this exact truck but instead of scale with no truck coupler, it is O gauge with the truck coupler. The Kline part number is K-5001 or K-5001D. With not having any luck locating one in stock from a website I trust or Ebay, I thought I would ask if anyone had one of these they would be willing to sale. Brasseur/Train doctor shows it on his site but my computer kicks me out saying the website is unsafe. I will just try to call him Monday when he is open and see. I have ordered from him in the past.

I could get another scale coupler and try modifying the housing but not sure that will get me the amount of side pivot motion. Please let me know if you think it will make a big enough difference and I will try it. My email is in my profile if anyone would like to contact me with any info. I will go to the "items wanted" forum section and post what I am looking for if you guys think it is a good idea.

Thank,

Brad

Not sure what K-Line offered as far as scale couplers. Kadee’s are available in both plastic and metal. Most 3 railers opt for the metal version. Your derailing is probably more to a truck mounted pivoting coupler fighting with a body mounted coupler.
A Weaver 2 bay hopper may be your best bet if you can’t come up with a replacement truck. The Weavers are by far the easiest to add a Kadee to. If your engine is up to pulling some weight. An Atlas diecast 2 bay may be a good candidate. A little more work but the added weight of the car may help. Both would make good candidates as transition car.

I may have a Atlas B&O war emergency 2 bay diecast hopper that never got on the rails. If your interested. Hit my e mail in my profile. I can convert it over to a transition car for you and hook you up with a replacement coupler for the one that crumbled.

Thanks Dave. Just emailed you.

Following this thread with a lot of interest. I have the same set of K -Line hoppers. I acquired them from a forum member not realizing they have scale couplers. I’m building a layout that will have minimum 042 curves.
I was disappointed when I unboxed the couplers. I thought there was no way they would work with non-scale coupler. This thread gives me hope.  I will unbox the hoppers and try them tonight.