Kris Model Trains / Williams Circus Passenger Cars

If these were made when Jerry Williams had the company there should be a product brochure or pamphlet. There were no large catalogs like what Bachmann/Williams puts out. Jerry Williams made or sold Williams trains for about 25 years before selling out to Bachmann. Bachmann & Williams buy-out was around 2007 or 2008.

Unless Greenberg's made a price guide, I am not familiar with any price guide for Williams.

Lee Fritz

The book is titled: "The Story of Williams Electric Trains" by John Hubbard. It is copyrighted 1987, and was published by Greenberg.  It's not really a price guide. It's more of a company history book.
According to the book, Mr. Kriswalus purchased the 300 sets of the cars and decorated them, so I don't think there would be a Williams brochure.   The book also stated that Williams did not keep a lot of records on what was made.

CharlieS posted:

Is anybody familiar with the Williams aluminum passenger cars that Andy Kriswalus obtained from Williams and decorated as circus cars? Anybody have a set?
They are mentioned in the Williams guide book, but I don't think there are any pictures, and there isn't any detail about them.
I don't think there was a baggage or vista dome, but how about an observation car?
Anybody have pictures?

The Williams book is sketchy on what was made. I'd also like to know more about the various Repli-kits, both the "Madison" cars, and the aluminum cars.

This is a little late for a reply but see attached.

Thank you for the photo.
I see you have three passenger and an observation.
How did you come by them? Get them new or on the secondary market?

I still haven't seen any in the flesh.

And I am still interested in learning more about the various kits Williams made in "O" gauge like the E-60, aluminum passenger cars and the "Madison" passenger cars.

Charlie, I had all the kits including the E-60 kit. Still have some instructions for the kits. I was a dealer in those days and have lots of extra parts to this day. The passenger cars kits came with everything you needed to build four cars. You had to assemble the trucks and bodies to the frames. Both Madison and Aluminum cars went together the same. The E-60 had no power trucks. It was made to take the four wheel Lionel GP-7 trucks. Later when the six wheel Lionel SD-9 came out, those trucks worked and looked much better. The pantograph was very thin and simply would not hold up to overhead wire use. 

I sold repainted Aluminum cars and still have lots of blank and test painted shells. Boxes of unmade trucks and things. We are getting ready for yet another hurricane so I could take pictures of all the stuff if your interested. Will sell cheap. Also will post the E-60 instructions for you. Don

Here is the Williams GG1 kit. It even came with a spray can of paint. Fixed couplers and no E-unit so it only ran in one direction. Instructions that came with it showed you how to add the E-uint. Don

Don: I would appreciate seeing any flyers or instructions you could post.

I have a number of unbuilt, complete E60 kits, an unbuild Madison passenger car kit, and a few aluminium passenger kits, including the bicentennial cars.

I also had some of the Williams freight car kits that appeared to be made from AMT / KMT molds. But those are long gone.

What did you have in mind for the parts?

Charles, you can have them. About $40 for shipping. Don

E-60 Williams instructions. Don

Thank you. I have an email on its way shortly.

More Williams info. I have a ton of old catalogs and sheets. Wonder if they ever made the fully scale Hudson. Don

CharlieS posted:

Don: I would appreciate seeing any flyers or instructions you could post.

I have a number of unbuilt, complete E60 kits, an unbuild Madison passenger car kit, and a few aluminium passenger kits, including the bicentennial cars.

I also had some of the Williams freight car kits that appeared to be made from AMT / KMT molds. But those are long gone.

What did you have in mind for the parts?

Wait, wait, wait.  Do you have any unpainted E60 kits?  I have read that they were sold.  I have been able to get a lot of the early Williams paper but not all.  Actually this is the first time I found anyone interested in the early Williams production.

Bill

scale rail posted:

More Williams info. I have a ton of old catalogs and sheets. Wonder if they ever made the fully scale Hudson. Don

I would be interested in buying one each of all the paper you have.

Bill

Bill DeBrooke posted:

CharlieS posted:

Don: I would appreciate seeing any flyers or instructions you could post.

I have a number of unbuilt, complete E60 kits, an unbuild Madison passenger car kit, and a few aluminium passenger kits, including the bicentennial cars.

I also had some of the Williams freight car kits that appeared to be made from AMT / KMT molds. But those are long gone.

What did you have in mind for the parts?

Wait, wait, wait.  Do you have any unpainted E60 kits?  I have read that they were sold.  I have been able to get a lot of the early Williams paper but not all.  Actually this is the first time I found anyone interested in the early Williams production.

Bill

I received this from the TCA Headquarters this morning.

CharlieS posted:

Thank you for the photo.
I see you have three passenger and an observation.
How did you come by them? Get them new or on the secondary market?

I still haven't seen any in the flesh.

And I am still interested in learning more about the various kits Williams made in "O" gauge like the E-60, aluminum passenger cars and the "Madison" passenger cars.

I just recently acquired the aluminum set off ebay.  I have never seen them before.  The F7 set also came off ebay.  It is the second set that I have seen.  The F7's are the 1984 model with electronic reverse and traction tires.  The cars are ABS.   That is about all I know.

Bill

Bill, yes they were sold unpainted but you had to request them at the time. They were gray plastic. Most of my train business at the time was painting Lionel and Williams engines. MPC sold gray A, B F-3 units, "Little Joe" gray shells and blue FM shells. Williams sold the E-60 unpainted shells but not many people knew about them. I don't think they ever advertised unpainted shells. I just asked them and that's how I got the kits. I don't have any now. Don

Bill DeBrooke posted:

CharlieS posted:

Thank you for the photo.
I see you have three passenger and an observation.
How did you come by them? Get them new or on the secondary market?

I still haven't seen any in the flesh.

And I am still interested in learning more about the various kits Williams made in "O" gauge like the E-60, aluminum passenger cars and the "Madison" passenger cars.

I just recently acquired the aluminum set off ebay.  I have never seen them before.  The F7 set also came off ebay.  It is the second set that I have seen.  The F7's are the 1984 model with electronic reverse and traction tires.  The cars are ABS.   That is about all I know.

Bill

Actually this is the first time I found anyone interested in the early Williams production.

I started this thread in June 2016.
I don't think there are a while lot of people who are interested in early Williams "O" gauge kits.
There isn't much information out there.
"Talking" with folks like Don (Scale Rail), looking at old advertisements is just about the only way to find out about the stuff.
This is one of the more enjoyable aspects of collecting.

The year was 1975 and Williams introduced the "Golden Memories" series. These were pre-war kits. Here's a few pages from the first catalog. Click to enlarge pictures. Don

Until this post I didn’t realize there were so many kits available? Very cool!  I was disappointed when Lionel Corp/ MTH had cancelled the Standard gauge 9E in kit form that would have been a fun build. 

Chris, I didn't copy some of the pages. A "pay as you enter" street car was offered as well as a#408E and some #9E electrics. Don

Yes Don at some point I may add one of those original Williams standard gauge pieces to my tinplate roster. 

scale rail posted:

The year was 1975 and Williams introduced the "Golden Memories" series. These were pre-war kits. Here's a few pages from the first catalog. Click to enlarge pictures. Don

This is the second catalog.  The first one is black & white, 1974.

I guess I should have made it clearer. It was the first catalog with the kits. An interesting note per a letter in this catalog. Williams could sell the last of these trains with the Lionel name on them tell Dec 31 1975. Fundimensions, the producer of Lionel at the time made them stop selling any trains with Lionel on a Williams product. Don

Thanks again for posting all these scans / photos.
I have been saving them to my train library.