LED lighting for passenger cars

Not sure if Hennings is there, but hard to beat Gunrunnerjohn’s kits. 

Yes, both Hennings and John will be at York. They share the same booth.

-Greg

Stop by the Henning's Booth in the Orange Hall (HH 06), we'll have both the regulators and the full lighting kits.  I'm packing them right now.

Lighting regulators are for folks that don't mind soldering, they're a really inexpensive way to get constant intensity flicker-free lighting in your cars using the commonly available 12V LED reels.

The full lighting kit is designed to provide everything needed to upgrade two passenger cars to LED lighting.

Thanks gunrunnerjohn. I will stop by your booth for some kits........Paul

Not to knock anybody's product or take business away from them, but other dealers have direct replacement bulbs for both bayonet and screw base if you're on a budget.

Paul, I bought mine from John at the Henning’s booth.  He explained the installation to me. 

artyoung posted:

Not to knock anybody's product or take business away from them, but other dealers have direct replacement bulbs for both bayonet and screw base if you're on a budget.

Have you ever looked at the difference in lighting when you have four or five direct replacement bulbs vs. the 24 LED's in an 18" car?  Also, the direct replacement bulbs don't offer flicker resistance, one of the big things I want in an LED upgrade.  Finally, you don't get the option of adjusting the intensity to your liking with a simple screwdriver adjustment with direct replacement bulbs.

The biggest part of the LED replacement is taking the car apart, so why not do the job right while you're in there?  In short, there are many options, not all of them are equal.

GRJ - will the LED lighting regulator work with DCC  (15v pulse width  modulated AC)?

Certainly should Ed, it'll work with AC or DC.  The first thing on the board is a full wave rectifier, so it'll take most any type of power.

Thanks John - I've ordered a pair and will install the first one in a brass model of PRR's Queen Mary obs/parlor car.  

Pleased to report that the LED driver exceeded my expectations in my first installation in a brass 2 rail model of PRR's Queen Mary parlor-obs.   I plan to install it in my 1980's vintage Sunset Broadway Limited.  LED strip lighting will replace grain of wheat incandescent lights driven by Keil Line rechargeable ni-cad battery circuit .

That’s great, Ed!  I look forward to putting my drivers and LEDs in my Western Maryland Heavyweights and streamline cars.

I got a box full of GRJ’s modules and they are fantastic.  I highly recommend them.

Same recommendation from me.

Thanks guys, I love to hear success stories.

John and I had extensive conversations and came up with a few things that made conversation of my Hiawatha set to LED’s in less that 10 minutes per car.

Thanks to our discussion and planning it will make converting my CCII ESE cars a snap.

Thanks John. 

K4s-RRA posted:

And then there are always alternatives depending on how much you want to do yourself.  There are kits for DIY and full replacements.  I like the RoyzTrains LED kits as I can adjust the brightness for the car application.  Brighter for diners, dimmer for sleepers, etc.  And full-brightness achieved around 8.5 VAC (or DC) allowing use of conventional operation as well as command control.  Competitive prices too.

My lighting regulators have the lights at full brightness at 9VAC, and they're driving up to 27 LED's on the strip.  You get very even lighting as the points of light are only .66" apart.  Of course, they have a dimmer and flicker control as well.  Finally, they also include a choke to insure 100% DCS compatibility.

One reason I went with the LED strips is flexibility.  For simple coaches, you can just install the strip and you're done.  However, for multi-level cars, dome cars, and observation cars, you can customize the fit as needed by simply extending wiring between the LED strip segments.

Well, I"m not sure I'd call it the same type of strip lighting.  They have a long PCB with fewer LED's, I found that having closer spaced LED's that each were not as bright gives much more even lighting.  I actually did lay out and get a prototype of a PCB, but it seemed it was easier to customize with the strips, so that's the way I went.  With the strips, you can cut them down for short 12" cars without any problem, or install them in 21" cars full length. 

I'm sure either approach yields a good conclusion, I just decided the way I went worked better for me.

K4s-RRA posted:

Thanks for responding, John.  So in essence Royz Trains offers the same type of strip lighting supply!  You obviously read a different response from  GRJ  than I did.

Dude, are you Roy of Royz Trains???

I ask because he's located in the same Michigan town--Grawn--and zip code as you.

Also, in your OGR profile you say you are retired and have interests custom lighting and engine modifications.

If anyone cares, you can verify this info by checking Royz' website:  https://royztrains.com/contact-us/

and k4s-RRA's profile on OGR.

So are you Roy?  Are you in business with Roy?  Is he just a buddy whose enterprise you wish to promote here?  What's the story?

Carl, if it's not Roy, he lives in same house.

GRJ, FOFLMAO!

I did check the site, maybe you should look at your own site.   Looks like a PCB to me with LED's and the regulator on it.  What does it look like to you?

There is also a board, but I don't see a choke for DCS compatibility.  It also looks pretty large to me.  One of my design goals was to make the board as small as possible and still have a full featured board.  This one looks to be at more than1.5" long and about 1/2" wide.

This one is 1.1" x .55".  I can put connectors on the input and output or solder them.

K4s-RRA posted:

... I have been making and selling one or another version of these since 2010.... T

Why the subterfuge?  Why not say from the beginning that you are "in the business" and have been for a number of years.  Why refer to Royz Trains as if it's a separate entity?

Also, where have you been over the past several years when LED lighting of passenger cars has been frequently and comprehensively discussed.  GRJ, Stan 2004, and other knowledgeable folks have helped countless forum members, myself included, light our passenger cars with LEDs.  And, they've taught us how to "roll our own" even though, as in GRJ's case, they are "in the business."

All you have done is promote your business via subterfuge; i.e., disguising your real identity.

So I ask, why the subterfuge? 

I'll let your out of place sarcasm speak for itself.

I agree,ditto,ditto and ditto!!!

It appears that someone got outed!!

K4s-RRA posted:

...

No choke.  Simple reason is there is no practical reason for it.  

The "practical" reason for the choke is so as to not degrade the DCS signal.  The operative term is "degrade."  DCS will work but performance becomes a your-mileage-may-vary.   Refer to threads in the DCS and/or Electrical sub-forums for technical details.

If your car will never ever be used in a DCS environment then so be it - leave out the choke.  But given a suitable choke costs a few pennies and has a minimal footprint, if spending the time/money to install LED lighting (whether rolling-your-own or buying a kit), I'd choose one with the choke.

K4s-RRA posted:

And you are correct.  No choke.  Simple reason is there is no practical reason for it.

There are a number of DCS users that would dispute that claim. I can demonstrate the signal attenuation of the DCS signal with and without the choke if you are interested.  Any number of passenger cars have been shown to affect the DCS signal in a measurable way.  That's why any product I build has DCS compatibility as one of the design goals.  I want to be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

GRJ where and how can I acquire your. LED kits? I have about 30 to 40 cars I would like to convert all of them MTH some are RrailKing and some Permier.  I can supply you with the MTH stock numbers if need be. 

Rick, here ya go.

GRG

I'm about to install LED reel strip lighting in several O scale 2 rail passenger cars.  One of Gun Runner John's LED regulators will be used to drive an 18 LED lighting strip.  The railroad is DCC powered with a nominal 16V square wave AC on the rails.  I'd like to dim the lights further than the regulators can achieve with its on board potentiometer.  In a workbench test I found a by connecting a 1300 ohm resistor between the regulator and the track power I can get the intensity I want. 

Question:  Is there a preference whether the added resistance is upstream or downstream of the regulator? 

The easy way to "tune" the brightness if all the way down is not enough is a resistor across the end of the strip.  That bonus of doing it that way is you get the advantage of the regulator with full voltage on the cap for flicker resistance.  Start with something like a 1K resistor across the output of the regulator and tune from there.

Question John - are you suggesting putting the resistor on the output of the regulator in series with the LED lighting strip or across the output of the regulator in parallel with the LED strip. ? 

In parallel with the LED strip.  The lighting regulator is a constant current device, so by shunting some of the current through the resistor, you are dimming the lights.  If you put it in series, the regulator just keeps turning up the juice to maintain the current you've set.

Thanks John - as you recommended putting a 1k ohm resistor in parallel with the regulator's output to the LED lighting strip provided full range lighting control and anti-flicker protection using regulator's  potentiometer.  The resistor can be soldered across the tabs anywhere along the strip.  As you suggested doing it on the end of the LED strip was easiest.   

Yep, since it's in parallel with the LED's any of the pads work.

FWIW, when I do markers or rear lights on the observation cars, I just tap in the same way.